Codex: Black Talons / Renegades

[Phal Brannon]

Hey all,

 

I'm currently trying to produce a Codex for my beloved Black Talons and as they're reasonably new to the services of the ruinous powers i thought the best way to reprisent this is a kind of halfway house between Codex SM and Codex CSM

 

So why do the Black Talons warrant a Codex? Well I appreciate the effort of Games Workshop to cater for us Renegade Marines with the latest version of Codex Chaos Space Marines but having the feeling that a recently turned renegade chapter wouldn’t be fielding Defilers, Daemon Princes and the like kept nagging at me and of course why on terra would they dispose of all the latest equipment that they have had the use of for thousands of year’s?

 

Of course if you ignore the Name this Codex could be used by any freshly recruited Renegades.

 

I'll be trying to keep it well balance ie: not just omitting the weak units and filling it with all the best options and i'd like to keep the number of units choices to no more than the current Codex SM

 

So am I justified in doing this?

 

Would this be a fare way to reprsent the chapters that have recently turned?

 

Would you play against me using this Codex providing you deem it to be as balanced as the SM and CSM Codex's?

 

I'm looking for as much input and help as possible on this one guys so please give ideas and comments.

[Night Stalker]

is BT a codex chapter ? if yes then create codex organisation structure etc, then lower their pts cost by 1 for each marine[not CM - give him fearless][2 for veterans, termis, assault squad] increase their LD by 1. cut ATSKNF and some other stuff[chaplains have low rate of survival i heard][techmarines might need new entry and change]. include lesser/greater deamons,icons. and some flavour options and you're set.

[Brother Tyler]

I could see this as a project for developing a Codex: Renegades or something like that vice being specific to your DIY Chapter. It would be a very interesting project. You might then personalize it a bit for the Black Talons.

 

I'd play against you in friendly games if I thought the codex was balanced.

[Mulceber]

Yep, I agree, it's a great idea. First unit I'd recommend getting rid of in the SM 'dex would be the chaplain. They'd almost certainly kill them. One bit of advice - when you write this codex, write it like the new style codices, rather than the old ones. That way it'll hopefully survive the next codex rewrite. -Mulceber

[Phal Brannon]

Thanks for the responses guy's,

 

Night Stalker. Whats the basis for cutting their cost by one point and increasing ther Ld?

As for the rest you're spot on with most of the stuff i'm thinking.

 

Brother Tyler. I'd be more than happy for us to develope this Codex for the broader renegades and i can still use it as the core of my Codex and just add my BT background, fluff, modeling tips and all the Usual page fillers.

 

Mulceber. Yeah i did consider using Chaplains as Apostle's (as i do love chapie's) but I'm thinking thats really a Word Bearers thing and their fluff justifies that, It would be to hard to Justify for my Black Talons or any other renegades really, Although i Could probably write up some fluff for my Black Talons where one chaplain turns his back on the emperor and add him to my Special Character entries.

 

I do intend writing it in the same format as Codex chaos marines eg: all the wargear options for the model/unit will be in the army list entry. As you say, it'll hopefully survive the next codex rewrite.

 

 

Right on to the Army List entrys, This is just a rough idea of what i'm thinking of using as our unit options so by all mean's feel free to suggest additions or removal of units.

 

HQ.

 

Chaos Captain (using Lords Stats and modifided wargear)

 

Sorcerer

 

Elites.

 

Terminator Squad.

 

Terminator Assult Squad.

 

Veterans/Chosen.

 

Tech Marine.

 

Troops.

 

Tactical Squad.

 

Khorne Squad. (As Khorne Berserkers in C:CSM)

 

Nurgle Squad. (As Plague Marines in C:CSM)

 

Tzeetch Squad. (As Thosand sons in C:CSM)

 

Slaanesh Squad. (As Noise Marines in C:CSM)

 

Scouts.

 

Rhino Transport.

 

Drop Pods.

 

Fast Attack.

 

Assult Marines.

 

Land Speeder.

 

Bikes.

 

Heavy Support.

 

Devs/Havocs

 

Predator.

 

Vindicator.

 

Land Raider.

 

Daemons.

 

Greater.

 

Lesser.

 

 

Ok guy's?

 

Cheers Phal.

[Mulceber]

Looks pretty good. I have a suggestion for the troops choices though:

 

Instead of having berzerkers, plague marines, etc. why not have just standard space marines, but with the ability to take marks (or banners, as they're called in the new Chaos 'dex)? This would represent the fact that they're new to chaos, and while various squads have devoted themselves to the gods, the gods haven't bestowed the same kind of gifts on them that they have on their older devotees like the World Eaters and Death Guard. To make it more potent, you could also give the ability to take a mark to all squads and even IC's. -Mulceber

[Night Stalker]

@Phal Brannon: SM cost - obvious. CSM in 3ed had cost SM-1 and +1 LD [to make u for ATSKNF - which i suggest you to cut] but if you see new CSM codex chaos raptors are 2 points less expensive then assault marines. just treat it as a rule - +1LD but loss of ATSKNF.

 

Or use simple entries from C:CSM for Raptors,Havocs,Bikers and Basic Troopers[just rename them]. for veterans i suggest to use DA veterans [they are fearless and should suit your fluff]

 

about list - as recent renegades i doubt that they will have so good supply to fill their ranks with dedicated cult troops [NM,PM,KB,TS] - maybe make them not counting for minimal Troops requirement. icons are ok imo.

 

about scouts - elites?

[Phal Brannon]

This would represent the fact that they're new to chaos, and while various squads have devoted themselves to the gods, the gods haven't bestowed the same kind of gifts on them that they have on their older devotees like the World Eaters and Death Guard.

 

Good point Mulceber.

 

And to represent the above

 

Troops.

 

Tactical Squad. (As Chaos Space Marine unit with choice of Icons of chaos)

 

Scouts.

 

Cheers Phal.

[Phal Brannon]

@Phal Brannon: SM cost - obvious. CSM in 3ed had cost SM-1 and +1 LD [to make u for ATSKNF - which i suggest you to cut] but if you see new CSM codex chaos raptors are 2 points less expensive then assault marines. just treat it as a rule - +1LD but loss of ATSKNF.

 

Ahh you're refiring to third ed :tu:

 

Or use simple entries from C:CSM for Raptors,Havocs,Bikers and Basic Troopers[just rename them].

 

This is what i had in mind :wub:

 

For veterans i suggest to use DA veterans [they are fearless and should suit your fluff].

 

Thats a cool idea and merits investigation (I'm not ofay with Codex Dark Angels)

 

about scouts - elites?

 

Are Scouts Elites in the current C:SM? I'm a bit worried of having to many units fighting for the Elite slots.

 

Cheers Phal

[Phal Brannon]

Right,

 

As it seem's theres nobody else who wants to change the army list entries (Might be that nobody else cares :tu: ) i shall move on to the unit entries themselves.

 

First off Captain/Lord,

 

 

Captain/ lord 90 points

 

Ws Bs S T W I A Ld Sv

6 5 4 4 3 5 3 10 3+

 

Unit Type:

. Infantry

 

Number/Squad:

. 1

 

Wargear:

. Power Armour

. Bolt pistol

. Close combat weapon

. Frag grenades

. Krak grenades

 

Special Rules:

. Fearless

. Independent Character

. 5+ Invulnerable Save

 

Options:

. May have one of the following:

- Mark of Khorne for 10 pts

- Mark of Slaanesh for 5 pts

- Mark of Nurgle for 20 pts

- Mark of Tzeentch for 15 pts

 

. May replace bolt pistol with a

plasma pistol for 15 pts.

 

. May replace close combat weapon

with one of the following:

- Power weapon for 15 pts

- Power Fist for 25 pts

- Single Lightning claw for 25 pts

- Pair of Lightning claws for 30 pts

 

. May take one of the following:

- Storm bolter for 5 pts

- Combi-weapon for 10 pts

 

. May take any of the following:

- Artificer armour for 20 pts

- Melta bombs for 5 pts

- Personal Icon for 5 pts

 

. May take one of the following:

- Jump pack/Wings for 20 pts

- Bike for 30 pts

 

. May instead replace all wargear with

Terminator armour, storm bolter

and power weapon for 30 pts.

in this case may only choose options

from the following list:

 

. May have one of the following:

- Mark of Khorne for 10 pts

- Mark of Slaanesh for 5 pts

- Mark of Nurgle for 20 pts

- Mark of Tzeentch for 15 pts

 

. May have personal Icon for 5 pts

 

. May replace Storm bolter with a

combi-weapon for 5 pts

 

. May replace power weapon with:

- Power fist for 10 pts

- Chainfist for 15 pts

- Single lightning claw 10 pts

 

. May replace his Storm bolter

and power weapon with a pair of

Lightning claws for 10 pts or a Thunder

Hammer and Storm Shield for 20pts.

 

Once again anything to add, remove or change?

 

any input greatly appreciated.

[Night Stalker]

yeah i meant 3ed chaos :whoops:

 

maybe add Thunderhammer/SS option in terminator armour ?

 

about elite scouts - there must be some downsides of heresy ;)

[Phal Brannon]

maybe add Thunderhammer/SS option in terminator armour ?

 

 

Great idea! consider it added.

 

 

On to the second HQ slot.

 

Sorcerer

 

Points Ws Bs S T W I A Ld Sv

100 5 5 4 4 3 5 3 10 3+

 

 

Unit Type:

. Infantry

 

Number/Squad:

. 1

 

Wargear:

. Power Armour

. Bolt pistol

. Force Weapon

. Frag grenades

. Krak grenades

 

Special Rules:

. Independent Character

. 5+ Invulnerable Save

 

Options:

. A sorcerer is a Psyker and must have

one of the following psychic powers

(models with the Mark of Tzeentch

may choose one additional power):

- Doombolt for 10 pts

- Warptime for 25 pts

- Wind of Chaos for 30 pts

- Fear of the Darkness for 15 pts

- Nurgle’s Rot for 20 pts (Mark of Nurgle only)

- Bolt of Change for 30 pts (Mark of Tzeentch

only)

- Lash of Submission For 30 pts (Mark of

Slaanesh only)

 

. May take one of the following:

- Jump pack/Wings for 20 pts

- Bike for 30 pts

 

. May have one of the following

- Mark of Slaanesh for 5 pts

- Mark of Nurgle for 20 pts

- Mark of Slaanesh for 30 pts

 

. May replace bolt pistol with

a plasma pistol for 15 pts

 

. May take any of the following

- Melta Bombs for 5 pts

- Personal Icon 5 pts

- Familiar for 5 pts

 

. May instead replace all

Wargear with Terminator

armour, Storm Bolter and

force weapon for 15 pts.

Whilst in Terminator armour

he may not use, melta bombs

plasma pistol, jump pack

wings and bike. In addition,

he may replace his Storm

bolter with a Combi-weapon

for 5 pts.

 

Anything to add, remove or change?

 

any input greatly appreciated.

[Phal Brannon]

One more unit entry,

 

This is for Codex Black Talons and would be omitted from Codex Renegades.

 

Elites

 

Talon Guard

 

Talon Guard Terminator 45 pts

 

Ws Bs S T W I A Ld Sv

4 4 4 4 1 4 3 10 2+

 

Talon Guard Sgt. +15 pts

 

Ws Bs S T W I A Ld Sv

4 4 4 4 1 4 4 10 2+

 

Unit Type:

. Infantry

 

Number/Squad:

. 3-10

 

Wargear:

. Terminator Armour

. Twin lightning claws

 

Special Rules:

. Fearless

. Furious Charge

 

Characters:

. One model may be

upgraded to Talon Guard Sgt.

for the cost of 15 pts.

 

Options:

One model may replace one of

of his Lightning claws for one

of the following:

- Assault cannon for 20 pts

- Heavy flamer for 5 pts

 

If the unit is at full

strength (10 man strong)

a second model may

replace one of his lightning

claws with one of the weapons

above.

 

Transport:

. The squad may have a

Land Raider dedicated

transport.

 

 

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[Night Stalker]

remove veil of time - it is just better warp time - no need for it. also make LoS 30 pts to shut up the whiners :blink: give him might of the heroes ?

 

Talon guar sounds ok.

 

Generic termies should have expensive assault cannon option and storm bolters and power fists LD 10 and [base cost for 5 - 200] [ability to mix weapons]

[Phal Brannon]

remove veil of time - it is just better warp time - no need for it. also make LoS 30 pts to shut up the whiners :blink: give him might of the heroes ?

 

Good call, on the veil of time and you're right about the LoS I thought about omitting it completely because of all the whiners it but 30pts should keep them happy, can't remember might of heroes off the top of my noggin but I’ll look into it.

 

Talon guard sounds ok.

 

Sweet.

 

Generic termies should have expensive assault cannon option and storm bolters and power fists LD 10 and [base cost for 5 - 200] [ability to mix weapons]

 

I'll try and get the entry up for these guys tomorrow.

 

Cheers

Phal

[Brother Hadafix]

I will look be to this when its more complete, as I left Chaos with the death of dex EoT. Hope you dont mind but may use some of it for an Idea I have for a Traitor Guard list.

[Skritz]

You are making your own Codex for your DIY chapter? Thats cool. I admit I would do the same for my upcoming army (yet still keep the models legal with the regular CSM Codex). Thats all I have to say. Good job and I hope you finish this project, since I think its something more people should do, even if its just for casual games. :D