Terminator tactics

[TheReclusiarch]

Hello everyone!

 

I'm in love with my terminators. The looks, the assault cannons! I got 10 of them (including sergeant and assault cannons, and a chainfist) but if I field them they just.. well.. die!

 

I usually don't field all ten, maybe more like six, but the result is the same; massed fire takes them down (Imperial Guard and Tau are my regular opponents). Meltas, plasma guns, lascannons, detpacks.. even rapid fire lasguns! I'm sure I'm doing something wrong here. Should I only have them as a weapon platform and let them hover in the background and shoot when they get the chance? Seems like something regular Tactical Marines could do!

 

Do you guys have any trips and tricks how to use these elite of the elite?

 

Cheers!

[JoeChaos]

Hopefully my traitorous brethren will forgive me giving some pointers to a hated Imperial swine…but I can’t stand the thought of a fellow marine being downed by IG or (*shudder*) Tau xenos!

 

If rumors regarding the 5th edition are true, your terminators should be getting a break from massed gun line fire soon (as your opponent’s own squads will block his LOS). Otherwise, it sounds like a deployment issue and/or possibly the load-out on weapons.

 

First off…if you’re fighting Tau and IG, why the heck are you using assault cannons? A heavy flamer is cheaper (and more killy) for this kind of work. I’d invest in a promethium tank or two. :P

 

Secondly, if you have ten terminators, use all ten (preferably in two 5-man squads). Terminators are exceptionally hard to bring down with their Toughness 4, and 2+/5+ saves. But if your opponent can mass his fire on one small squad, he WILL bring them down. Splitting your squad means splitting your enemy’s fire, which will actually improve the survivability of both squads.

 

Remember that Terminators never count as moving models, so rapid fire those storm bolters and blast away with that flamer…make sure you’re deepstriking close enough to your opponent (you want an 8” to 12” range; you’ve got a 1 in 3 chance of landing on target and the average scatter is 7”). Do the math and don’t be afraid to take some chances…if I could only place one terminator (because the others were lost to a bad scatter), I’d want the one with the heavy flamer, and I’d want him in a position to hit as many models with that Strength 5 gout of flame as possible.

 

Hopefully though, you’ll have more than one terminator setting down and at least one or two should survive your opponent’s turn of shooting. On your next turn ASSAULT! TDA was designed for close quarters battle, and most Tau/IG armies won’t have the gear to crack your casing in hand-to-hand. Depending on how many terminators you can charge with, you should be able to whittle down your opponent over several rounds, meanwhile avoiding any incoming fire from Hammerheads and Demolishers (since you’ll be locked in close combat with your opponent).

 

Terminators are great units, but they can be tricky to use. If they keep dying on you then you ARE doing something wrong! ^_^

[bystrom]

I don't use terminators that much, and considering that the last time I used them, they became cannon-fodder/distraction, absorbing several rounds of fire from my eldar opponent (which consequently allowed me to roll up his right flank and kill off quite a few units), I'll try to avoid saying big shiny target distraction ^_^ But I do agree that more terminators usually means harder for your opponent to handle them all, considering I did bring a predator, dreadnought, rhino and terminator chaplain (when I usually go for all infantry or just rhinos), even though it was just the terminators and terminator chaplain that got killed.

 

If possible, you could try deploying them in a way that they can move and shoot a squad while blocking LOS to as much scary AP2 units as possible (rhinos help). Or deep-strike them with the same in mind. Remember that CC blocks most line of sight as well (depends on size), which could allow you to deep-strike behind assaulting units (if that's part of your strategy). Couple this with a teleport homer, and that stops you worrying about scatter.

[TheReclusiarch]

Thanks for the replies!

 

I do think I have a spare heavy flamer around here somewhere. Everyone is screaming about how great the assault cannon is, but I rather like the look of the heavy flamer, so that advice made me happy!

 

Deepstriking might do the trick, yes, if they are not blown up by those low AP weapons. ^_^ Well, I'll give it a try!

[Mycroft Holmes]

10 terminators are a LOT of points. I'd follow the suggestions above and run them as two squads or a sinlge 6man squad.

 

I've always run my terminators in 6man squads if possible, often as a Chaplain led Terminator Command Squad. This is especially useful, because they become Fearless and have access to his Littanies of Hate.

2 assault cannons, maybe a chainfist, but not more than that.

 

I never deepstrike, not because I don't like deepstrike, but because I want my terminators on the board, drawing fire, wipeing out 4+ AS units, assaulting MCreatures, basicly dictating the course of the battle. I almost always put them towards the center of the board, usualy behind cover for the first turn.

 

Use LOS. Terminators do have a good save, but force them to make too many saves and they'll go down, no matter what is shooting at them. That being said, ride them hard. Push them forward. Make the enemy deal with the increadible threat they present.

 

 

Mycroft

[HJL]

as a Deathwing player i would like to think i know how to use terminators.

 

firstly, heavy flamers are a good choice, but you normaly only ever get one or two shots with them in a game, mostly due to the limited range.

 

hand to hand combat terminators are good, but only if you have a landraider, no one teleports cc termies down as the enemy can simply walk away from them unless you are very lucky with the scatter.

 

2x 5 man squads are much more effective than 1x10 men, this is because you can position them more tacticaly, it is often hard to minimise returning fire to a squad with 10 huge bases.

 

teleport homers are your friend, give them to your scouts or a squad of bikes and move them up to teleport off of, reduce scatter etc.

 

use them to hold objectives, if you find a nice building to hide in, nothing can kill 2x 5 man squads of terminators with 2+ save and a 4+ cover save.

[JoeChaos]

Great, great pointers HJL…though I must say that personally I LOVE playing Death Wing armies because it’s so much fun to cutting those fearless terminators down! ;)

 

Just want to re-emphasize for the benefit of Reclus…terminators can be a tricky unit to use. They are well worth the points for what they accomplish on the battlefield (I’m not just talking about “how many points they can kill;” I’m talking about EFFECTIVENESS in breaking up nasty strong points, taking out hard targets, panicking the enemy, and just being a general thorn in your enemy’s paw). Just to sum up:

 

- multiple small squads offer tactical advantages over single large squads

- assault TDAs should always be deployed in a land raider

- shooting TDAs are great when deepstriking and teleport homers only increase effectiveness

- different heavy weapon choices are more or less effective against different armies

 

Oh, and by the way HJL…skulking terminators inside cover are easy prey to a Heavy Flamer (twin-linked or not)! :P

[One More Day]

I have 25 standard Terminators, including two heavy flamers, two assault cannons and two cyclone missile launchers, and 10 Assault Terminators.

Easiest way to use them is to Take Lysander, and deep strike the whole lot onto the battlefield in one go.

The first problem my opponents have is what to do about their brown trousers.... :P

[bystrom]

I can just add that cyclone missile launchers, while great weapons, are usually more useful in other units (as missile launchers), even when adding in tank hunters. While they become great at destroying tanks, you're getting a maximum of 2 shots, compared to a lot more bolter and assault cannon/heavy flamer fire that can very easily cripple infantry squads. The only problem is that being closer usually means more potential return fire as well as not allowing much diverse abilities (I don't count in assault cannon lucky rends). Against the tau and imperial guard, I could imagine though that deploying terminator squad with cyclone launchers and then advancing, knocking out armour could actually work quite well.

 

Oh, and by the way HJL…skulking terminators inside cover are easy prey to a Heavy Flamer (twin-linked or not)!

 

What do you mean? Terminators would just take their 2+ armour save and then punish whatever enemy decided to use a heavy flamer against them.

 

As for close combat, I've found it very difficult to kill of WS9 -WS10 enemies, (in this case, the Avatar). So I'd suggest against fighting in CC units with lots of power weapons (obviously), or ones with WS9-10, lots of wounds and 4+ Inv save as they're really tough to kill and can usually cripple your terminator squad. But other units, they'll just munch through (mostly). So for the OP, there shouldn't be any problems.

 

I'll repeat what's already been said: LOS. Terminators can move and shoot, so that can be used to their advantage. Add in the fact that terminators are difficult to kill, increase their difficulty by standing in places where the 'right' units can see them, and they'll add quite a few worries to your opponent.

[TheReclusiarch]

Good advice, people! I'll start by using two units of terminators and be more aware of my surrioudings. I'll let you know how it goes. :)

[minigun762]

What do people think of using Terminators, especially those geared up for Close Combat as counter-assaulters?

 

Put them behind your more basic troops and if something nasty comes your way (like a Wraithlord or enemy assault specialists) Have them either intercept the unit or reinforce your own guys in close combat?

 

Typical squad of 5 guys is going to run you about 200 points which is about the same as an equivalent jump pack squad.

[HJL]

generaly speeking, close combat terminators arent really the way to take down mosterous creatures, they have far too few bodies to take casualties, and not enough str 8 to really be a threat. i would say that regular termies are better, shoot and then assault with 5 power fists.

[minigun762]

generaly speeking, close combat terminators arent really the way to take down mosterous creatures, they have far too few bodies to take casualties, and not enough str 8 to really be a threat. i would say that regular termies are better, shoot and then assault with 5 power fists.

 

Well 5 Power Fists or equivalents on the charge should be enough to bring down even a full life Wraithlord.

15 attacks x 0.5 to hit = 7.5 hits x 0.5 wounds = 3.75 wounds = dead Wraithlord

And the Wraitlord is unlikely to kill a Terminator before they get all their attacks off

2 attacks x 0.5 hits = 1 hit x 0.83 wounds x 0.66 failed Inv save = 0.56 dead Terminators and even if it did, 12 attacks on the charge will net you 3 wounds so still a dead Wraithlord

 

Now LCs are useless against a Wraithlord but against T6 creatures like a Carnifex they can be useful.

Assume a 3 LC/2TH unit charges

12 LC attacks x 0.66 to hit = 8 hits x 0.31 wounds (S4 rerolled against T6) = 2.5 wounds

6 TH attacks x 0.66 to hit = 4 hits x 0.83 wounds = 3.3 wounds

total 5.8 wounds = dead Carnifex

[Guardian of the Rage]

Those are some good stats about the likley hood of killing things with diferent type of Terms in CC. I personally think that Assault terminators are badly underated, they can be absolutely deadly, particularly when combined with a Terminator Chaplain. Reroll to hit and to wound with lightening claws on a 'furious' charge, i do it with my black templars, and its very funny!

 

The only real issue with their use come from the manouveurability, or rather their lack of it. Unless you have a LRC!! many players consider this a points sink, and on an academic level, i agree entirely. But i actually use it, many other player who you'll hear bad mouth it for the cost reason have'nt used it. It is a spectacular vehicle, and the ride of choice for any terminator. The mathematics of it isn't even that bad either (except against melta weapons! for god sake don't go near melta weapons) Your opponent should only get one turn of shooting at it b4 it delivers it payload. It should start in cover, then move 12 and pop smoke(and make as much use of cover as possible). Then, depending on requriement it should move and deposit your 5 assault termsa and terminator chaplain into charge range ( don't hum the A-team music as it moves and the terms bail out and charge, its sad!!) (tho tempting) after this, it will then put the fear of good into your oppontent as their infantry cower.

 

I'm sure this post will recieve irrate counter posts, but don't knock it until you try it!!

 

GotR

[JoeChaos]

I'd never knock a Land Raider transport for assault terminators...it's the only way to fly. And I agree that terminators can be the hardest assault squad bar none. Ran some numbers the other day and could find no other unit capable of gutting as many MEQs on a charge as assault TDAs.

 

The only thing that disappoints me is that Chaos is unable to score a single Crusader. Eight terminators! I'd be able to field my TDAs in the Sacred Number of Khorne...and actually be effective (instead of deepstriking; not a good tactic for assault TDAs). You'd think they could just pull some seats out.... :)

 

Ah, well...maybe a little mix-n-match in the Apocalypse....

[Wildfire]

Well 5 Power Fists or equivalents on the charge should be enough to bring down even a full life Wraithlord.

15 attacks x 0.5 to hit = 7.5 hits x 0.5 wounds = 3.75 wounds = dead Wraithlord

And the Wraitlord is unlikely to kill a Terminator before they get all their attacks off

2 attacks x 0.5 hits = 1 hit x 0.83 wounds x 0.66 failed Inv save = 0.56 dead Terminators and even if it did, 12 attacks on the charge will net you 3 wounds so still a dead Wraithlord

 

Just a note, remember that the sgt is not armed with a power fist, so you're just barely average to kill a wraithlord.

[minigun762]

Well 5 Power Fists or equivalents on the charge should be enough to bring down even a full life Wraithlord.

15 attacks x 0.5 to hit = 7.5 hits x 0.5 wounds = 3.75 wounds = dead Wraithlord

And the Wraitlord is unlikely to kill a Terminator before they get all their attacks off

2 attacks x 0.5 hits = 1 hit x 0.83 wounds x 0.66 failed Inv save = 0.56 dead Terminators and even if it did, 12 attacks on the charge will net you 3 wounds so still a dead Wraithlord

 

Just a note, remember that the sgt is not armed with a power fist, so you're just barely average to kill a wraithlord.

 

Oh good point.

I was actually doing it from the Chaos Perspective, with 5 PF guys, but you're right Loyalist Sarges have that Power Weapon.

 

Still, I am starting to feel that consolidating your Power Fist attacks into PF squads might be superior than the 1 hidden PF and relying on lots of bodies to absorb the incoming attacks.

[Godspear]

I never use my Sword Brethren in TDA unless I'm running a LRC. Pack those bad boys in there with a chappy and haul ass behind your vanguard force, then pop smoke and charge out of that bad boy with thunderhammers polished and lightning claws ready to shank. For my shooty terminators, I keep them in the back as well, but slog them behind my largest squad of crusaders as I would a las/plas shooty squad on both flanks. I don't think I've had any problems with losing terminators before. You just need to split your opponent's fire. he has to determine what the biggest threat is. Is it the giant squads of initiates? The rumbling Land Raider Crusader? The squadron of LST's rockin' assault cannons? Or is it the 5 man termie squad laying down suppressive fire right behind the giant squad? I think it also helps if you have a tank buster in every squad, because in the event your termies do end up eating dirt, you can still pop tanks without much of a setback, which is something your opponent will have to consider.

 

"Well, I see the ass cannons in the back row, but that melta is going to bend my baals back to Terra before the termies even bring their guns to bear."

[Marshall]

I have been using them quite often in my black templars list and love them - they are often game winners.

 

I usually run 14 of them (and a marshal in termie armor)

 

I always deepstrike all of them and have a chaplain with a teleport homer. I have a couple of pretty big advantages that help it out for me, though. Namely a huge crusade of over 20 models to get my chaplain in close and then righteous zeal so when I teleport the termies in (usually on the other side of whatever combat the chaplain is in) if they do get shot they move towards the nearest enemy, often into base to base.

 

Anyway, bearing that in mind, the basic strategy should still be sound.

 

First up, recognize that they are the closest we have to an eldar unit. They are very specialized and if used poorly can be a huge waste of points. Even when deepstriking always make sure to limit lanes of fire to them. As I mentioned, I tend to use close combat as a shield. You will still have vehicles to worry about, but typically, they don't put out the kind of termie hurt as a couple of foot units do.

 

Also, they should be specialized in what they do. Don't mix a heavy flamer and a cyclone missile launcher in the same unit. Once you know what they do, then get them in to do it. They are great in close combat and can tear apart vehicles as well as units of troops. Try to avoid things that will ignore your armor save but don't be afraid to mix it up if necessary. You will still have your invulnerable save.

 

Don't rush them up alone. If the enemy can fire on them with their whole army the will die. They should always be one of many threats. They are even great as a feint. I have sacrificed mine many times to win the game. Remember that their high point value can be an asset in some games depending on the mission. Recon is easy for them with deep strike and it may be worthwhile to forego their shooting in order to win the game. My constant mantra is "thou shalt remember the mission objective and keep it holy".

 

It is a bit of a rough learning curve with them and a bad day of rolling will break your heart. On the plus side, if you have a good day of rolling your enemy will complain about how cheesy they are :-)

[AkiraCho]

they all have good advice, the one that works for me is heavy flamers, deep strike in, toast a squad

 

and do the same with the second squad, that instantly cuts down on fire, allows your army another turn to move closer AND removed 2 squads for you

 

if you are alive when the dust settles, next turn shoot again and assault

[DevianID]

My typical Space Marine force, when I feel the need to play SM, is as many cannons as possible. I run a Fire shooting army (Fire from Silent Requiems Way of the Water Warrior) with as many Pred Annis with Las cannons, ass cannon speeders, 5 man las tac teams, librarian with fear/fury in TDA, and 2-3 6 man 2 ass cannon termie squads. In that army, the goal is to completely expose yourself, with the caveat that you will outshoot anything the enemy has with around 13 las cannons and at least 7 ass cannons. For me, the backbone of my army is the termies, as they are my first, last, and only defense as I use them as a buffer to my squishy las cannons. In this regard, the 6 man 2 ass cannon termie squad has done wonderfully for me, (8 ass cannon shots, 8 storm bolter shots--any time my list has synergy im happy).

 

I found that the 6th squad member makes a big difference as I take casualities or engage forward assault elements. Its nice that if I do lose 6 termies to anything out there, then they will be in the open to be hit with 13 las cannons. Plus, if they are shooting my termies, they are not shooting my speeders and preds, as usually the weapons required to kill termies are the same weapons they need to take out my armor.

[Chaplain Ezekial]

My suggestions are to run normal terminators instead of Assault ones. Assault terminators only work well in the assault phase. Normal termies work well in both the shooting and assault, so they are twice as useful. If you can find the points, nothing like running 2 LRC or LR with termies inside (thats always a fun/nasty way of delivering them). Another tactic is scout squads w/ teleport homer, and 2 5man squads Deepstriking w/in 12"inches of the enemy, normally in terrain.

 

Just some of my thoughts, try it out and see what works for you.

[Isiah]

Just want to agree with Chaplain Ezekial on the use of tactical termies over assaulty ones. Assault termies are operating at a very limited capacity whenever they aren't in cc [basically acting as a threat], as termies should be played as move+shoot+assault units. Added to the fact that termies can't sweeping advance, nor move faster than 6" means that most people will just manouvre out of their 12" danger zone. This forces them to either a) walk around aimlessly looking for something to assault or :lol: re-board their transport and trundle off somewhere else.

 

And to add another tactic to the Land Raider rush or the Deep Strike for tactical termies – good old footslog (but you MUST utilise every scrap of cover going to avoid the enevitable targetting by massed firepower) – that way you can fire your weapons on the move, and you aren't risking entanglement or worse within a Crusader/Land Raider. And this is where the rest of your force come into play TheReclusiarch (which you don't tell us about) who must be geared to taking out AP2 weaponry and assaut threats as a piority.

 

For Assault termies Deep Strike is not really the best option because on the turn the squad lands it can do nothing, At least with tactical termies they can fire something – the same really can be said of drop pods. It really does mean that the Crusader is a pretty much must have item which equals things starting to get very expensive indeed !!

 

The best way to field a single termy squad in an SM army is as a retinue for an HQ. I'd recommend the Librarian for tactical termy squads, with Fury and Might (or Veil), he also sits well with an assaulty squad to, with Might and Veil (or Fear). But a Chaplain is a must for a termy assault unit really.

 

Another point to make is take termies in even-numbered squads as this is best for points scoring purposes. So for a Commad squad 4-man is a good size, for a standalone unit go for 6-man.

 

Lastly – Veteran Skills. Furious Charge is excellent for a termy Commad Squad, Tank Hunters for a normal tactical termy squad (now even the storm bolter can have a chance at glancing AV11 armour on transports and light tanks). In fact TH is a must if you are using cyclone missile launchers.

 

OK I've digressed a bit here from the original question so sorry about that. But I hope some of these insights might help you TheReclusiarch.

 

Cheers

I

[TheReclusiarch]

Yes, thanks for all the advice. Sticking terminators in buildings sure did the trick, although they couldn't assault much they just didn't seem to go down. :D

[angel of justice]

somethings ive learned whilst playing

 

Pick your special weapon based on what you want your termies to do.

 

Assault cannons if your going to run and gun

cyclones if your going against (shooty) horde armies / mech armies

Flamers if your gonna be doing Cities of death or similar

 

terminator tactics vary depending on what army you face and where you fight

 

IF your fighting horde your going to want to bottle neck them and shoot them so there numbers are a weakness,

if its Marine equiviliant your gonna want to get up close and personal to get rid of that 3+ save

 

good luck