IA: Harvesters (Mk. II)

[Yogi]

Yes a completely ruthless academic community. Very cool.

 

Change for changes sake is very deceptive. Weeding out the weak implies a desire for things to become stronger, deadlier and/or evolve to a higher level. Change just for change would mean the flesh smiths are happy with transforming a marine into some sort of passive snail, with out combat capablity. I cant personally see this happening, but hey its your IA.

 

To me they would have a goal that would likely change from moment to moment even if it was simply to get the greatest divergence from the human form. Because basically change is a natural occurance, The flesh smiths really have little to do if they simply like change, in fact the could do nothing and change will still occur.

 

For example you could have the evolvers faction competeing with the forced divergance faction. IMO they should have some goal even trying to catalog changes, because if they just change for changes sake they are essentially aimless.

[Commissar Molotov]

I fear you're misrepresenting them a little.

 

Change for changes sake is very deceptive. Weeding out the weak implies a desire for things to become stronger, deadlier and/or evolve to a higher level. Change just for change would mean the flesh smiths are happy with transforming a marine into some sort of passive snail, with out combat capablity. I cant personally see this happening, but hey its your IA.

 

Is that such a problem, if turning a Marine into a snail satisfies the Flesh-Smith's curiosity? Curiosity is the over-riding flaw that the Flesh-Smiths suffered from. The idea is that their experiments aren't always intended to benefit the Chaos powers and result in crazy biological weapons that'll tear the Imperium apart. You really need to set your morality (and mentality) aside for a moment. The Flesh-Smiths are completely amoral sociopaths. They'd set their creations against a planetary population just as a small child would pull the wings off a fly. Just to see what happens. Of course there would be results - it would help them refine their creations and their techniques - it would help them ascertain if their theories and assertions are sound - but I think you're too used to "bad guys" having "evil plans". That just seems a little too staid, boring and cliché to me.

 

Change for the sake of change - because change is what Tzeentch wants.

 

To me they would have a goal that would likely change from moment to moment even if it was simply to get the greatest divergence from the human form. Because basically change is a natural occurance, The flesh smiths really have little to do if they simply like change, in fact the could do nothing and change will still occur.

 

Disease is also a natural occurance. The Death Guard really have little to do - in fact, they could do nothing and let the common cold bring the Imperium to its knees...

 

For example you could have the evolvers faction competeing with the forced divergance faction. IMO they should have some goal even trying to catalog changes, because if they just change for changes sake they are essentially aimless.

 

The idea was to allow the Vocates players to do roughly what they wanted with the Flesh-Smiths. For example, I imagine a Flesh-Smith experimenting with daemonic possession, creating all sorts of twisted creatures. What happens if you bind a daemon into an Ogryn, rather than a human? The daemonculaba from Dead Sky, Black Sun might be an example of some of the Flesh-Smiths; the whole 'Savage Mortician' idea couild prove useful.

[Brother Argent]

What happens if you bind a daemon into an Ogryn, rather than a human?

 

I feel a better question would be what happens if you bind a deamon to a ratling? :P

 

Personally Commisar I ifind this to be a good idea, which is no surprise having read the IA: Castigators. I find that the premises if the Flesh-Smiths is quite an interesting one. And the idea of change for the sake of change, just because Tzeentch wants it to be so is also a good premesis.

 

Reading through your IA it has led me to thinking, in regards to Flesh Smithing. Would said Flesh Smiths try getting a daemon possesing a Tyranid or something? How about an Eldar? And as Tzeentch is also the god of conspiracy theories would they, release "smithed" creations into the population of a Hive WOrld to infiltrate their society, or are they more just about setting loose packs of altered creations of people, just for kicks?

 

A good bot of work so far and I eagerly await further additions. Oh, and the idea of the Vocates has set off little creative bells inside my head. (its getting kinda noisy in there...)

[Asmodeus' Swordhand]

I see your point, but it would be interesting to include at least one cabal going for the tower no? You could trash that idea. I like the idea of them experimenting with the immaterial as well, but does it really fit the name 'flesh smith'

 

My two cents

[Commissar Molotov]

What happens if you bind a daemon into an Ogryn, rather than a human?

 

I feel a better question would be what happens if you bind a deamon to a ratling? :huh:

 

The thought did cross my mind when I posted that... ;)

 

Reading through your IA it has led me to thinking, in regards to Flesh Smithing. Would said Flesh Smiths try getting a daemon possesing a Tyranid or something? How about an Eldar? And as Tzeentch is also the god of conspiracy theories would they, release "smithed" creations into the population of a Hive WOrld to infiltrate their society, or are they more just about setting loose packs of altered creations of people, just for kicks?

 

I could imagine a Flesh-Smith playing around with Tyranids, absolutely. I imagine some sort of altered Carnifex being quite the centrepiece to a Flesh-Smith's force. Who knows? But yes, I can imagine Flesh-Smiths doing all the sorts of things you mention. They're meant to be villains - but not stereotypical ones.

[Barret]

The idea was to allow the Vocates players to do roughly what they wanted with the Flesh-Smiths. For example, I imagine a Flesh-Smith experimenting with daemonic possession, creating all sorts of twisted creatures. What happens if you bind a daemon into an Ogryn, rather than a human? The daemonculaba from Dead Sky, Black Sun might be an example of some of the Flesh-Smiths; the whole 'Savage Mortician' idea couild prove useful.

 

I didn't realize that was your plan. In which case....ehhh-xcellent. I think I mentioned to you earlier via MSN that I wanted a Flesh-Smith as a recurring villain for the T-Swords, perhaps the same one who masterminded Thermo-Pylon E, and reading the last few posts has gotten me a lot more excited about these guys. Up until now, I was envisioning a legion of Fabius Biles. Now I think I get what you're intending much better.

[brother varen]

I have created a Flesh-smith named Pherax, as a nemisis for the Castigator 2nd company, The Firebrands. To see some of the schemes, he plays look at the second company blog. ;)

 

Flesh-smith Pherax still has many more possibilities. Pherax has taken a likeing to the Firebrands, Because of their purity mindedness. Pherax has also found his fly to torment, Captain Caphius.

 

Pherax travels aboard his strike cruiser, "The Corrupter of Souls." He has a small fleet of escorts that he usually sends on "errands", if they are not travelling with him. Pherax right know is in search of the one of the eleven Doom Eagles that was infected by xeno DNA. He has great intrest in them. He has little to do with other flesh-smiths. But sometimes they do cross paths, and when they do, they battle their creations to see who's work is greater. Pherax doesn't bother eliminating his fellow flesh-smiths, instead his uses them as pawns in a greater scheme.

 

Pherax has an elite guard, that he has called the "WarGuard." The Warguard are all veterans that were given treatments to better their destructive abilities. The Warguard's leader is one called Braxis, who is very lethal.

 

The Strike Cruiser, "The Corrupter of Souls", has a garrison force of a hundread Astartes, not counting the Warguard. It also houses a large Apothcarium, that Pherax has modified for his "studies". It also contains a large statis cell block for guests. The Corrupter of Souls, also has been modified to house more Astartes and be more lethal in battle. Its size is between that of a regular strike cruiser and a Battle Barge. It's captain is named Vexis.

 

Pherax collects any specimen that catches his curitousity, specially ones that can give an edge to his creations in battle. The Corrupter of Souls houses many such specimens in its statis cells. Pherax would like to meet Fabius Bile to exchange knowlege at some point.

 

Pherax is a sorceror with psyker abilities. He loves to observe his creations interact with Imperial society. He usually sends a clone of himself into battle, that way Pherax will always return from death. When Pherax does go into battle, he will have the Warguard with him to ensure his survival.

 

This is just a taste of the possibilites of a flesh-smith. ;)

[Commissar Molotov]

Varen - I fear you're making your Flesh-Smith too powerful! In the IA article it mentions that there are only ~300 Harvesters left. For Pherax to have 100 Marines at his command (plus this 'War Guard') seems somewhat at odds with the archetype I'd established - that of a small, hardened elite of callous Space Marines and a sea of scrofulous mutants! :) Equally, I don't imagine that Pherax would have a Strike Cruiser and escorts, though it's potentially possible. With that said, I REALLY like the idea of a once proud and noble Astartes vessel being converted to almost a cattle truck, taking planetary populations and urning them into bizarre creations that stetch the bounds of sanity. I really find it interesting.

 

Also, with regards to the 'infected Doom Eagles', I think you're actually thinking of the Subjugators, infected by the Cell-Kin. :)

[Barret]

This is still rough, but I think the Flesh-Smith I'm going to work with will be named Vikor Sellez, the Promethean. (A cookie to whoever spots the reference(s).)

 

Anyways, Flesh-Smith Vikor is/was initially inspired by the insane servitor-beasty in Necropolis. Rather than genetic or other eugenical experimentation, Vikor is all about creating horrific beasts and unnatural patchwork things that once were men. He's one who might say to himself, "Hmm. Both Orks and Tyranids are known for regenerative properties. What would happen if I sewed a genestealer's arms to an Ork? And then removed every part of its brain expect that controlling...touch?" Or something to that effect. Like Frankenstein, but insane.

 

I have a picture of him in my mind, still looking largely like an Apothecary, but covered in blood and ichor, and carrying horrific implements of surgery. Or something.

[Asmodeus' Swordhand]

kombat units zorine the propagtor comes to mind, but he's not PA [link]

[brother varen]

Mol, the Warguard are the original marines that went with Pherax from the begining. Pherax made clones of the original marines, that became test subjects for the various experminments for a better lethal marine. Once finding that special trait, he gave it to the Orginal marine. All the Astartes clones are mostly located in the statis cells, held for special occassions. So, Pherax only has the Warguard, which i believe would only be 30 original marines from the Reaper chapter.

 

where was this info on the Subjugators effected by the cell-kin? I can't find it anywhere, but i know i have read it somewhere. Thanks Mol, for the correction. Wasn't there also a story on a Doom Eagle Apothecary?

[Tyrannicide]

where was this info on the Subjugators effected by the cell-kin? I can't find it anywhere, but i know i have read it somewhere.

The mention of the Subjugators 3rd Company partially being infected by the Cell-Kin can be found in the article Index Astartes: Rogue Sons.

[brother varen]

Thanks, Darth.

 

Mol, does 30 orginal members sound good? Still working on Pherax. Any thoughts you would like to put out there?

[Commissar Molotov]

I think an Apothecary and three squads of Marines sounds like a decent strike-force. Especially as he'd have suffered losses over the years. That's another reason that Flesh-Smiths would choose to supplement their forces with their creations.

 

I definitely think that a "Codex: Harvesters" would be cool. If anyone's interested in creating one in the Homegrown Rules forum, let me know! :lol:

[ToyShip]

[i think an Apothecary and three squads of Marines sounds like a decent strike-force. Especially as he'd have suffered losses over the years. That's another reason that Flesh-Smiths would choose to supplement their forces with their creations.

 

Mol, does 30 orginal members sound good? Still working on Pherax. Any thoughts you would like to put out there?

 

I get a totally different feeling from these guys. I think at best, a Fleshsmith would have around a squad of Harvesters that followed him around. At Best. This doesnt mean other renegades would join up and increase the numbers, but it just seems kind of strange that he'd be running around with a third of a battle company. If all the flesh-smiths had comparable numbers there would only be around 10 warbands coming from these guys, not as "splintered" as I'd personallly seen it.

 

And lets not forget, these arent normal Space Marines, arguably they are more powerful, being influenced by the warp and such,so they wouldnt nessecarily need the numbers a normal Marine force would. Which leads me to another thing, a third of a battle company is a LOT of marines, fluff states that a squad of Marines can practically take down a planet. Thirty of these nutters plus thier crazy creations plus whatever other renegades join the 'Smith would be a force to be reckoned with, but perhaps way too powerful.

 

Sorry for the rant, just thought I'd share what I percieved.

Toyship

[Commissar Molotov]

If I were to do a 'Codex: Harvesters' it'd feature a Flesh-Smith as a 0-1 HQ, and then for Elites three squads of (what would effectively be) Chosen. Troops would be the mutants. So three squads of Harvesters would be quite good. I see (and I think Varen has been intimating) Pherax as being quite a senior Flesh-Smith within the Harvesters, and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Pherax could've killed another Flesh-Smith and taken on his bodyguard.

 

The IA itself currently says:

 

Though originally formed in accordance with the doctrines of the Codex Astartes, the Harvesters have been ravaged by their twisted experiments and now number approximately three companies.

 

The Codex suggests that the Ultramarines have the Chief Apothecary and then 12 Apothecaries (+ Company Apothecaries? It doesn't say.)

 

Either way, if we were to suggest that the Reapers increased their Apothecarion as they worked to further their aims, there still wouldn't be THAT many Apothecaries.

[ToyShip]

If I were to do a 'Codex: Harvesters' it'd feature a Flesh-Smith as a 0-1 HQ, and then for Elites three squads of (what would effectively be) Chosen. Troops would be the mutants. So three squads of Harvesters would be quite good. I see (and I think Varen has been intimating) Pherax as being quite a senior Flesh-Smith within the Harvesters, and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Pherax could've killed another Flesh-Smith and taken on his bodyguard.

 

I hadnt really thought of that, so point taken. BUT, for all intents and purposes, a not-so-senior 'Smith would have acces to less Marines, in my eyes at least. Its a sort of respect thing. Since Pherax is more favored by Tzeentch, he gaind more followers as the Marines seek to bask in the attentions of thier chosen god.

 

The Codex suggests that the Ultramarines have the Chief Apothecary and then 12 Apothecaries (+ Company Apothecaries? It doesn't say.)

 

Either way, if we were to suggest that the Reapers increased their Apothecarion as they worked to further their aims, there still wouldn't be THAT many Apothecaries.

 

Alright thats fair. Obviously casualty rates would likely be less for specialists, but seeing how two-thirds of the chapter are dead, logically that could mean two thirds of the apothecaries died. Obviously this isnt the case, but just to justify my line of thought, that would leave four apothecaries left (barring added apothecaries due to the chapter's emphasis on them) So roughly 75 marines to an apothecary.

 

Oh crap, I just proved your point...I guess 30 marines isnt too bad, I would like to see a derivative of Tzeentch's holy number somehow though.

 

Anyways enough rambling, im not proving anything...

[Commissar Molotov]

Alright thats fair. Obviously casualty rates would likely be less for specialists, but seeing how two-thirds of the chapter are dead, logically that could mean two thirds of the apothecaries died. Obviously this isnt the case, but just to justify my line of thought, that would leave four apothecaries left (barring added apothecaries due to the chapter's emphasis on them) So roughly 75 marines to an apothecary.

 

Well, don't forget that the Tzeentchian Change-Cult originated in the Apothecarion. All the Chapter's Apothecaries were corrupted, and those that didn't... well they suffered "unfortunate accidents." The Reapers' Chapter Master got 'curious' and it tipped the Apothecaries' plans. I do think there would be a number of Apothecaries, especially given their favoured "fight from the back" style. And it's not beyond the realms of possibility that since their fall, the Sorceror-Surgeons have taken on apprentices to whom they can train in their dark arts.

[ToyShip]

Some Inspiration:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a333/Toyship/Alteredmarines.jpg

You guys should know this fellow:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a333/Toyship/Nurgleapoth.jpg

 

Sorry for the big pictures, but hopefully this inspires someone.

 

EDIT

 

Heres a few more links:

http://www.coolminiornot.com/202336

http://www.coolminiornot.com/199566

[brother varen]

its funny, you should mention apprentices. I was kind of thinking that Pherax would have a a few. Maybe not full apprentices but orderlies. Still trying to get thoughts together.

 

Toyship, very nice. Though the Apothecary has a Nurgle apperance.

[Commissar Molotov]

http://www.coolminiornot.com/202336

 

This guy is super cool.

 

Toyship, very nice. Though the Apothecary has a Nurgle apperance.

 

He should! That's Owlandmoonguy's Nurgle Apothecary!

[brother varen]

Mol, the IA artice says that the orginal Apothecaries have been mutated. I was thinking, maybe Pherax has a uncorrupted clone that he uses to covertly enter a planets population to avert any suspicions or having his plans interfered by the Astartes. Would it be possible?

[ToyShip]

This guy is super cool.

 

His Servo arms are soooo delicate, I love this model. If i were a Space Marine, I think id be an Apothecary. (God Im a Nerd)

[Commissar Molotov]

Mol, the IA artice says that the orginal Apothecaries have been mutated. I was thinking, maybe Pherax has a uncorrupted clone that he uses to covertly enter a planets population to avert any suspicions or having his plans interfered by the Astartes. Would it be possible?

 

The article was written before this latest round of work. It's possible there are flesh-smiths who aren't mutated. (The whole 'clean exterior, debased heart' juxtaposition.) That said, an "uncorrupted clone" seems questionable to me. Don't forget that even an uncorrupted Astartes would stand out in a crowd! :)

[brother varen]

That is true, but what planetary governor would refuse requests from a normal looking Astartes :)