IA: Harvesters (Mk. II)

[Commissar Molotov]

Ah, I see what you're going for. Well, I was telling Toyship on MSN that I don't see the Harvesters themselves as being overly mutated. Perhaps a little. But the Chosen, to my mind, wouldn't be too badly. They're the grim warriors, the 'Chaos Knights', and I see them being pretty much normal. The same with the Flesh-Smiths. Perhaps that's just because I see it as contrasting against the mutant creations they have in their wake.

 

So I don't think you need to worry too much about clones (which is a bit of a sci-fi cliché, to my mind) - if Pherax himself is too mutated to escape attention (and I don't know, it's down to how you create him) then he'd likely have a trusted Lieutenant who could be used.

[brother varen]

ok, now i have a better idea of them. so the corruption is internal and limited externally. I don't know to much about Tzeentch. What is Tzeentch's sacred number? Do you see the Harvesters organization following the Tzeentch's sacred number?

 

You are correct that Pherax is a senior Apothcary. I see him using and misleading other Flesh-smiths into doing his bidding, like an expert chess master. Maybe exchanging test subjects with other flesh-smiths.

[ToyShip]

Check ou the rough draft of Codex:Harvesters here:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=153644

[Commissar Molotov]

Tzeentch's sacred number is nine, I believe. Eight is Khorne, Seven is Nurgle and Six is Slaanesh.

 

As to the internal/external dichotomy, it's just something I prefer. Obviously some of the Harvesters would be mutated. I'm just giving you my interpretation.

 

I think the 'sacred number' thing is something that gets mis-used in 40k. Nine CSMs + One HQ equals ten - and that's not favoured anymore, is it? I would think that sacred numbers would be used in a far more subtle way, like a pattern of nine-sided shapes or the like. Nine eyeballs on a necklace. Those sorts of things.

[brother varen]

Have any dreadnoughts from the Reapers sided with the Flesh-smiths? I was thinking that maybe Pherax tinkered with the Techno-virus to see what would happen?

 

Here is some ideas that i thought Pherax would induge himself with:

 

1) Implanting gene-seed into a ogryn to see what happens

 

2) Possessed marines

 

3) Techno-virus effects on a dreadnought, captured Mechanicus servants, Vehicles

 

4) instrested in capturing a Black Dragon assualt marine to explore their defective gene-seed

 

5) instrested in capturing a marine infected by cell-kin DNA (intresting bio-weapon that can infect others in battle)

 

6) has advanced cloning and DNA mapping technology

 

I have also thought about the Caphius/Pherax connection. How could Pherax effect Caphius psycologically.... then i came up with his purity issue. What if Pherax created a clone with the aspects that Caphius beliefs can't tolerate. Sort of darker images of what Caphius (pysker, sorceror, mutant, ect) :lol:

 

What do you think?

[Commissar Molotov]

I personally don't see the dreadnoughts siding with the Flesh-Smiths. That said, I think that the dreadnought sarcophagi could've been salvaged, and some of the Smiths could easily have tinkered with them in various ways - daemonic possession, the techno-virus, etc, etc.

 

I do think it's possible that you're making Pherax too powerful and diverse. My thoughts were that the Smiths would have various lines of interest. When I toyed with making my own Flesh-Smith, his focus was going to be around daemonic possession and the like. I like very much the idea of implanting gene-seed in ogryns, and there is indeed the reference in the IA that the Flesh-Smiths were deliberately implanting gene-seed into unsuitable candidates just to see what would happen.

 

Possessed would be interesting, definitely - I think warp magick would open up a whole new set of tools for the enterprising Flesh-Smith to conduct his experiments.

 

With that said, the Subjugators and the Black Dragons are perhaps taking things a bit too far. Nobody outside the Black Dragons know about the Dragon Claws, whilst there are only twelve(?) Subjugators in the Galaxy. What I'd suggest is that Pherax finds the cell-kin on his own. I certainly think biological weapons and the like could prove interesting, but I would want to avoid nurglesque connotations where possible.

 

What I'd suggest is you try to focus Pherax a bit more - investigating his psychology is a good step. What does he want? What most interests him, and what is he doing to further those interests?

[brother varen]

Pherax believes that space marines are the first step in an evolutionary process that he wishes to exspand on. He believes that space marines can be so much more then what they are now. Maybe normal humans are not the best canidates for implantation of the gene-seed. He wants to see how far he can take the Astartes biology.

 

He further these aims by finding new species as canidates for gene-seed implantation, daemonic possession to see what benifits come with it and effects of on Astartes biology, Techno-virus effects on equipment and biology (Bio-technology), gene-splicing xeno and human DNA to create a better canidates for implantation.

 

does this help? Am i going to far? It all breaks down to finding or making better canidates to create better and stronger Astartes.

[Commissar Molotov]

That's a bit like Fabius Bile, with his 'new men', but I like the idea that he sees Space Marines as being superior to humanity. It ties in with the idea of apotheosis. It does sound interesting, though...

[brother varen]

yes, it does sound like Bile, but Pherax doesn't believe that humanity may be the best "subject" but maybe a piece of a puzzle to the best "subject". Am i saying this right? I don't want Pherax to be another Bile and trying to stay clear of this. Pherax has no objections in using Xeno DNA to find a better "subject".

 

The best way to explain is this:

 

Pherax believes that every species in the universe is a piece of puzzle that can be combined to create a "super canadate", one that can be made better with Astartes biology.

 

Does this help?

[Asmodeus' Swordhand]

I'm having some major trouble cooking up any art for these guys mol. Is there any way you could describe to me your exact vision of the average mutant, ie left arm stitched on, skinny lashing tentacles etc.? I would love to get going on some stuff, but I can't seem 'create' these things in my mind.

cheers

[Commissar Molotov]

...your exact vision of the average mutant, ie left arm stitched on, skinny lashing tentacles etc.? I would love to get going on

some stuff, but I can't seem 'create' these things in my mind.

 

Trouble is, the whole point of the Harvesters is that you can't talk about a "typical" creation - they're all as twisted and debased as the Flesh-Smith wants to be.

 

If you can't draw the mutants, why not have a go at a Flesh-Smith? That could be cool. :lol:

[brother varen]

Mol, could you tell me, When the reapers fell from grace, do you have an idea as to what types of marines followed the Flesh-smiths? We know there is 3 companies of marines left. Who was converted to the flesh-smith's ideals? Techmarines, chaplains, terminators, ect.?

 

I would imagine a few techmarines, due to the fact of the upkeep of the technology and equipment. Chaplains would probably have been killed first in the chapter war. Terminators unknown. Maybe if you created a few characters from the fall before becoming the Harvesters, would help in furthering their future. Maybe a idea of what the Harvesters managed to salvage from after the chapter war, as far as ships, equipment, and personal.

[Commissar Molotov]

I fear we're starting to run into similar problems that we had with the Castigators - you're asking me to detail everything perfectly - but partly the idea is to give a relatively blank slate for people to work off. I don't want to spend ages detailing how many Terminators turned to Chaos - it's irrelevant. We're just getting bogged down in details. If all the Terminators stayed loyal, it's emminently possible that the Tzeentchian Reapers could've killed them and taken their armour.

 

Too much detail will only hurt this, I fear. Plus, the focus should be less on the Reapers and more on the mutants, I think.

[brother varen]

you are correct, Mol. Just trying to help Toyship with a Harvesters Army list, and wanted some details so we didn't exceed your vision of them.

[Asmodeus' Swordhand]

I will give flesh smiths a shot... What I'm asking for for a mutant is for something you think will embody the grotesque random mutations well. Just some words to show how sick the mutants are, and I can then put it on paper. I have some ideas forming, but I would still love some vague guidance. I've searched many of the things you recommended like mengele and such, but I want to know what you visualize for one. Not necessarily an 'average' mutant, but what a single mutant might resemble. If it's at all possible I would be very grateful, but it is not totally necessary.

Cheers

[Nine_Breaker]

I have brainstormed a bit about one Flesh Smith in particular who the Angels of Perdition have been trying to track down. I'm thinking a relatively low-status Flesh Smith with a small bodyguard of Reapers, five at most. I am thinking though that this guy would be utterly devious, brilliant, and elusive. He would come to a planet, perform his experiments and otherwise sate his curiosity, then move on to the next location (and probably leave all kinds of traps and misdirection in his wake). All the while the Angels would be a mere step behind but just as good off trying to wrestle a shadow. It would be the delicious exception to the quote I've been sure to insert in every version of IA: AoP: "My armies delayed them, but without the divine intervention of the Dark Gods, we had no hope of stopping them."

 

I think the most obvious route to go as far this Flesh Smith's line of interest would be mind control. This might be in the form of hypnotic methods, use of chemicals/drugs, mechanical replacement, ancient and forbidden rituals (necromancy?), etc. I have a nice image in my mind of an Angel of Perdition strike force following rumors of the Flesh Smiths presence to a planet only to have seemingly cooperative Imperial citizens turn into vicious zombies after the cunning bastard utters an activation phrase over radios, vox casters, comm-beads, etc.

[Heru]

Pherax believes that every species in the universe is a piece of puzzle that can be combined to create a "super canadate", one that can be made better with Astartes biology.

I wonder if this got Mol thinking about that episode in Star Trek: The Next Generation where code has been left in the DNA of multiple races and Romulans, Klingons and Picard's crew have to team up to fit all the puzzle pieces together (which turns out that it just gives them a message from a long dead race who designed the humanoid races or something).

 

Also back on topic Pherax sounds like someone the Thorian faction of the Inquisition would be interested in capturing / working with / nabbing his notes in regards to their Divine Avatar projects.

[Commissar Molotov]

I wonder if this got Mol thinking about that episode in Star Trek: The Next Generation where code has been left in the DNA of multiple races and Romulans, Klingons and Picard's crew have to team up to fit all the puzzle pieces together (which turns out that it just gives them a message from a long dead race who designed the humanoid races or something).

 

I hadn't thought about it, but now that you mention it, I can see the connections. (It's called The Chase, by the way!) The suggestion that the Old Ones created life throughout the galaxy - that the Orks were a soldier caste that grew out of hand, etc - could tie into much bigger things.

 

Nine: Good to hear from you! I like your ideas, especially because they're understated. If you have the newest Chaos codex there's a nice bit of fluff about a Chapter called the Emperor's Swords who are subtly psycho-conditioned by the Alpha Legion and turn in response to a piece of music (I think?) - definitely interesting things, and it shows how devious the forces of Chaos can be.

[brother varen]

I haven't seen that before (The Chase). Very interesting. I can see Pherax looking for the pieces of the puzzle, which can lead to so many possiblities.

 

Heru, what is this Divine Avatar project of the Thorian Inquisition? Haven't heard of this. It would make things intresting having an group of Inquisitors after Pherax to.

 

Nine, sounds good. Would love to hear more on the Character. You should look up Codex:Harvesters in the Homegrown Rules section and give your thoughts. :)

[ToyShip]

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom..._Sourcebook.pdf

 

Thats all there is to know about the Thorian faction of the Inquisition. Careful its a PDF link :) .

[brother varen]

Thanks, Toyship. Your a wealth of information aren't you :) Any more brainstorming on Codex:Harvesters?

[Asmodeus' Swordhand]

Hey, Mol. I sent some art, but it is uncoloured. Opinions and such would be greatly valued.

Edit: Here it is:

[brother varen]

Mol, what is the color scheme for both the Reapers and the Harvesters? Is the Reapers chapter symbol still used by the Harvesters? What are the Chapter symbols for both chapters?

[Commissar Molotov]

The original Reapers were my first DIY, and had a grey scheme with green insets to their shoulderpads. I haven't narrowed down a scheme for these Reapers (though a homage to my first DIY might be welcome) or for the Harvesters - if indeed they actually changed their scheme at all.