W.I.P Dragon Claws Fluff

[Red-Dragon]

Hey

 

Well i was going to do it for certain units only,maybe a squad or two.Well they are going to be chaos so i think it should be okay.

 

Also,does anyone know of a GW chapter that uses Jaghatai Khan's geneseed?? Thanks

 

From

 

The Red Dragon

[Commissar Molotov]

Hey

 

It was only going to be for Certain troops,but what i may do is say that those troops have a Mutated Black Carapace that makes the armour mould to there bodies.Certain parts would be armour,certain parts would be flesh.

 

Suitable idea??

 

From

 

The Red Dragon

 

 

For a hardcore Chaos-worshipping Renegade chapter, I'd say yes. In fact, the Obliterators (originally of the Iron Warriors) are ultimate examples of marines physically merging with their weapons and armor, becoming walking weapons platforms that can disturbingly ceven reate ammunition for their melded armory.

 

For a Loyalist chapter, it's a definite no, as the Black Carapace is actually the last geneseed implant made before a neophyte becomes a full battle-brother. So it's pretty understandable how a malfunctioning, mutated, or nonexistent Black Carapace organ can spell the end of a Chapter. Also, something as extreme a mutation as to cause battle-brothers to meld with their armor invites the armed intervention of the Inquisition (essentially spelling an altogether different doom for the Chapter, this time due to being blasted out of existence by the Grey Knights).

 

A loyalist Chapter with armour merging with their bodies...? Surely not!

 

With regards to the White Scars successors - there are the Rampagers, the Destroyers and the Marauders (all confirmed second foundings of the White Scars). There are presumably others, I think the Storm Lords might be, but either way it's certainly allowable for your Chapter to have such a parentage.

[Red-Dragon]

Hey

 

Thanks mate,so my chapter are going to use Jaghatai Khan's Geneseed and when they were imperial they were a sucessor to the White Scars.

 

Your blog is great,im reading it atm ive got it open in another window.Its really good mate,i like it.

 

Thanks for all your help guys.

 

From

 

The Red Dragon

[Sigismund Himself]

The Storm Lords are indeed a second founding White Scar successor chapter. The only one to break the naming convention of the second founding successors (eg. they follow the "stereotypical" XXXX YYYY instead of XXXXers).

 

What chapter will it draw it's geneseed and initial command cadre from?

[Red-Dragon]

Hey

 

Well,i was thinking Storm Lords.I think that it fits better,that Dragon Claws were created from the Storm Lords.

 

Do you think it works?? Maybe there was a small squad of Storm Lords present at the first battle on Holda but they were wiped out,all but one who turned to chaos with them. Veteran Sergant Mathius Sharpe.(Yes im hoping to include troops that chaos dont useually get and modelling them asthough they rebelled too. Think it would work??)

 

So,is that maybe a good plan??

 

From

 

The Red Dragon

[Espada Azul]

A loyalist Chapter with armour merging with their bodies...? Surely not!

 

Touche, comrade Commissar.

 

As for turning to Chaos, well, I think it's best that you figure out how your chapter starts out, THEN worry about how they fall to the Dark Powers.

 

Also, a small squad of battle-brothers from a Successor chapter does not a new Chapter make. Certainly, not if said squad actually gets nearly annihilated at the start. One survivor cannot found a chapter (a Chaos warband, perhaps, and even then it's a complex affair that involves liberal amounts of intimidation, and threats of bodily harm), after all.

[Red-Dragon]

Hey

 

Hmm...Im really stuck for what could of started them off...So,the chapter that your geneseed is from have troops which form your Command Squad(i Belive)but would i still be able to have my own chapter master??

 

Also,would the White Scars that formed part of my army be painted in Dragon Claws colours or White Scars colours??

 

Soo...They were born on ???(i might say that there Homeworld was originally Holda and thats where they were battling when they turned to chaos) and they were made with Storm Lords geneseed.The storm lords formed there command squad(somebody please correct me if im wrong) but they allowed Lucius to be chapter master as he had a closer relationship to the troops meaning they would be more likely to listen to him.

 

Does that work so far?? Any point's in the original fluff/the WIP revise of it that are completly wrong?? Any points that people have thought of that may be of help to me/any ideas people have for new parts to be added in??

 

Thanks for the help

 

From

 

The Red Dragon

[Guest Mordray]

This is all IIRC so...

 

The chapter your gene-seed is taken from will usually donate a collection of veterans to help train the new chapter. The most senior member is usually appointed chapter master, but this practice may depend on the chapter. The veterans are often the first marines the potential recruits see and so would be the ones most respected by the newly created chapter.

 

Of course the above is relating only to a loyalist chapter... I wounder what would happen if a dark mechanicus group got their hands on one of the gene-seed shipments? Could be interesting, no?

[Red-Dragon]

Hey

 

Thanks mate,youve cleared that up for me.I have an idea now about the command squad and Lucius and the Chapter Master. That second idea youve got would be interesting,i may have to make a an allied Chaos chapter for after there turn,using that idea if you dont mind mate. Thanks for your help,i have Coursework to do today so i will probably have to leave the Fluff untill either one night during the week or next weekend.Although,i may take a break from coursework a little later and do some more on my fluff.

 

Thanks for all the help guys.

 

From

 

The Red Dragon

[utilityzero]

when are you going to have your chapter founded? if you say 3rd founding then i don't know about having an 'allied chapter' cause there wouldn't have been too many.

 

if your chapter was already on it's way towards its fall, that would explain how they could freak out on another loyalist chapter and just attack for no reason. probably the other chapter began to suspect that your guys weren't what they seemed so Lucious decided to try and take them out before they could say anything. maybe Lucious murders the guys from the Storm Lords so that they can't report on him or try to stop his chapter from from following him into damnation. and only that one sergeant agrees to turn to chaos with Lucious?

 

but they're right, if you know what your chapter was like before their fall, it could help you with fleshing out your chapter as they are after they turn to chaos.

[Red-Dragon]

Hey

 

Ive worked on a sort of,Rough Draft of the IA,its probably laid out completly wrong,and ill probably need to re-write a whole lot of it but ive written it in a break from my English Coursework so i didnt have too much time.Let me know what needs to change.

 

 

Dragon Claws IA.

 

The Dragon Claws are a third founding created using Storm lords geneseed.They originate from Holda,and there base of operations is belived to still be there.

 

There first battle was a rather important one for them,as it was a battle to defend there Beloved Homeworld. Although they were fighting in the Artic Circle of the planet,they still loved it here. There was belived to have been some Revoloutinary technology discovered here,that the Xenos wanted as did the Imperium. The chapter master of the Dragon Claws,a former Storm Lord by the name of Archemides (last name unknown) was taking on more than he could handle.He was being overwhelmed and faced an imminent demise.This was when Lucius,a private that was born on Holda,came to his rescue,saving his life and ensuring himself as a prominent candidate for Promotion.

 

The battle they had to stay alive was difficult.The had to fight off invasions from Orks,Tau,Eldar and even Necrons.They had rounded up all machinery parts that could be usefull,and had stored them all in a customized tank built specifically for The Dragon Claws.It was called a Destructor,and it was enourmous.Easily enough room for twenty troops even with its huge amount of guns,it was a formidable oppenent that had helped them win the battle against the invading armies.But now there was a new threat to there survival.

 

The marines were getting fatigued,they could only fight off the cold for so long.There armour had began to freeze up and rust,making it much harder for them to move.In the more rural areas of the planet,much of the snow was stained red with the blood of the Ork invasion they had fought off some days ago.They lost alot of men that day,and they needed to get home and rest.They were getting sick of waiting for a call saying they were going to be picked up,and if it wasnt for the local people,they would have starved months ago.Ammo was running low,weapons were seizing up in the cold.Tempers were tested to the extremes and sometimes failed,causing a marine to attack one of his brothers,but,all the time this was happening there was another imperial army on the planet who had been forgotten about.They were a small group of Imperial Guardsmen,who called themselves The Emperor's Retribrution.They had been fighting the same opponent that The Dragon Claws had been fighting and they too were supposed to be picked up and taken home once the battle was over.

 

The battle finished nearly a year ago and both armies were still here.Running desperatly low on food and drink,and having exhausted the hospitality of the locals,The Dragon Claws chapter master Archemides,decided they needed to go on the hunt for somewhere to hide out before winter came.It was cold and snowing now,and this was supposed to be summer.He decided that they should climb the mountains.Either that,or use some of there vehicles(the ones that hadent seized up due to the frost) to mine there way through the mountain.They decided that it would be best to go over,as they may end up destroying the entire moutain range if they tried to go through it.

 

It took six weeks for them to climb the mountains,and they lost a lot of men.There ranks were now left very very low.Luckily,some of there men had actually been dropped this side of the mountain six months ago,and were hiding in a cave shielding themselves from the snow.There were 50 men,in one cave sharing the meat of a small mountain goat.They joined there battle brothers,and descended the rocky mountain range.

 

Once on the other side,they discovered The Emperor's Retribution.They had food,drink and shelter,with enough of each to house the Dragon Claws.Alex,the leader of the Emperor's retribution,had once trained as a Techie,but due to his shortage of Physical Power was turned down.However,he still remembered alot of what he had learnt,and he was a very intelligent man.He had modified the weapons of his men so that they worked in the cold. Archemides asked if he would do the same for them and Alex agreed.

 

They spent 3 weeks here,recooperating and relaxing,before they were attacked again. This time it was a small Ork attack force,and they dispatched the threat pretty quickly,But,in a moment of rage,Archemides and his men turned on The Emperor's Retribution,Killing all of the men that they had made a pact with.They immediatly regreted there actions,and Archemides ordered the Dragon Claws to bury the dead Guardsmen.

 

Lucius overheard the Veterans from the Storm Lords chatting.They were going to report the Dragon Claws to the Inquisition and have the entire chapter destroyed.He would not allow this to happen.Picking up a sword that had been laid down by one of his battle brothers while they were digging,he slaugtered the Veterans,before turning to Archemides.Archemides pleaded with Lucius to give him his life,as he was going to stay with this chapter untill the end.Lucius accepted,but demanded that he be made Chapter Master,due to his strength in combat and tactical skills.He was promoted at that point.

 

A few days later,an alarm goes off in the Control Center of the base they had established out here.A ship had landed in the Artic Circle,just 50 miles from there exact location. Apparently it was imperial but they had to be sure.

 

"When they arrive,debrief them and get them out of here."Yelled the General.His mission was simple.Retrieve The Dragon Claws and provide them with back up if its needed.He knew,that his Dark Hands would welcome The Dragon Claws with open arms,as there are practically battle brothers.The general heard a noise from deep into the valley,the low rumble of powerfull engines.He went to the edge to see an incredible force of marines,some tanks and bikes,a lot of customized vehicles and even a few dreadnaughts had survived the battles here.He awaited there arrival with great anticipation.He knew this army were tought,he had been told so by the Adeptus Mechanicus,who had made many vehicles for them that were specific to there chapter.

 

 

As they grew closer his men assembled behind him.The general pulled out his binoculars and tried to get a closer look at the men marching towards him.Barely seeing them through the blanket of snow falling down,he just managed to notice a few of the closer men.The leader,or so he assumed,was a very tall man,with enourmour shoulders and arms as big as tree trunks.He had long hair and a scar across one eye,with a look that would scare even the bravest of men.He was carrying in his hand a sword,which appeared to be of dwarven manufacture.It was probably a fine looking weapon,but in the snowstorm,it looked like it was from the dark ages.The armour the men had on had rusted quite badly and they were having trouble marching as the joints on there power armour were quite stiff.This army looked as if they had been throught about a million battles,when they were a relatively new army.

 

Lucius could just make out the striking figure of the Dark Hand general.He was a relativly old man,with greying hair and a long beard.In one hand he held a large power axe,and he was looking through a pair of binoculars.Lucius knew that these men were here to help them,but he couldent help resenting the man that he was approaching.He told his men to follow his lead,and that he had a plan.Confused but loyal,they agreed.

 

 

"Hello" the leader said.His voice was powerfull and scary,almost as if he were part man,part demon.

 

"Hi.Were here to help you guys.We heard you were having a bit of trouble with some Orks so we dropped by to help."Replied the ultramarine general.This enraged Lucius.

 

"They were nothing we couldent handle.I think youll find were alot toughther than we look" He said,almost growling.

 

"ATTACK!!" Lucius roared,before embedding his sword into the ultramarine general.The sword struck straight through the generals armour,and into his heart.His eyes went dark and he began to choke on his own blood.Not a single Dark Hand was left alive.The slaugter had been quick and bloody aswell as intensely violent.The Dark Hands were not expecting an attack and when attacked they discovered there force weapons and guns would not work.

 

This is all the research we can find on them right now my lord,this is all we know about there origins.

 

Home World: Holda. They are based in the Artic Circle,but apparently they have training facilities in the Jungle and The Desert as well as the Arctic.The planet has a very bizarre landscape,with the climate changing every few hundred miles.

 

Combat Doctrine: The Dragon Claws fight with surprise attacks,attacking with everything theyve got. Although they are extremly skilled with their Firearms,there true power lies in there close combat skills.They are extremly tough,even for marines and have been known to slaugter entire companys of Marines,most notebly the Doom Eagles,just because the marines dared to come too close to Holda.

 

Battlecry: "Fear the Dragons,or Face your Demise!!"

 

Belifs: They belive that there Chapter Master Lucius Payne is a direct descendent of an ancient army, known as The Dragon Warriors,who would implant the organs of dragons into there men before allowing them to reproduce,meaning that the would be able to hopefully forgo implanting the new recruits made from the original soldiers sons with the same organs.This means that he has an uncanny ability to persuade dragons to battle on behalf of his chapter.

 

They also belive that Lucius's adopted father was the son of a god,and worship him in the same way that some of there squads worship the Chaos Gods.

 

The Members we need to be carefull of:

 

Lucius Payne,Chapter Master: Lucius is ruthless in combat,and incredibly strong.It is belived that he tore the door off of a Rhino when he was angry once,and this was without his Ligtening Claw.He is armed with a single power fist/ligtening claw(what sure which i mean) ,A Power Glaive,and a customised bolter by the name of The Punisher

 

Archimedes,Veteran Sergant: Archimedes was the Chapter Master when the Dragon Claws fought for the imperials.He passed this rank on to Lucius when they rebelled against the Dark Hands,as Lucius saved his life and was clearly the most powerfull man in the army. He is armed with a Power axe and a shield,but he also carries a bolter.

 

Captain price,Master of Infantry: Captain Price is in charge of the new recruits,aswell as making sure his men are battle fit at all times.He is armed with a sword,Made by Lucius,called the Slayer Sword,and a Plasma Pistol.

 

Its a little rough around the edges and its not very well written,but hopefull it gives people a basic idea of how they were formed and stuff.Let me know what needs to be changed :blush:

 

From

 

The Red Dragon

[Red-Dragon]

Hey

 

Sorry for the double post,my computor wont let me edit my last post :unsure: Ive written my IA in a very diffrent format this time,its written as a report to the High Lords of Terra. Im hoping that it is a lot better than my first attempt,and im looking for feedback so that i can approve it to its final draft,then decide chapter symbol and colour scheme.

 

*Incoming transmission*

 

To the High Lords of Terra,

 

We have compiled an IA article on The Dragon Claws according to our research.

 

Origins before turn to chaos:

 

They were a third founding chapter,successor to the Storm lords and created to defend the system using there Homeworld as a base.It is belived that they thought they were created to replace the Ultramarines as the most feared imperial chapter,but our records tell us this was not so.

 

They were led by a Veteran of the Storm Lords called Archimedes(Surname Unknown) who was awarded the role as Chapter Master because of his experience in the field and his tactical expertise.He was a Battle Brother in the Storm Lords when they were founded,and his power in combat lead to his promotion to Aspiring Champion with a few weeks of there first campaign.

 

 

Homeworld: Holda,a planet known for its unpredictable weather and change in climate.They hail from the Jungle Regions of Silark and this is where they are belived to have set up there headquarters.

 

Beliefs: They belived that they were to be the most powerfull and most feared chapter in the Imperium.This,according to our research was not true,they were Created to defend Holda,and also to supply backup when it is needed. They thought of the Emperor as the almighty,the Saviour of mankind and they were the tools with which he was to save the Human Race. They also belived that they were named the Dragon Claws due to there Homeworld being vastly populated by Dragons aswell as descendents of an Ancient army known as The Dragon Warriors. We have reason to belive that this was correct.

 

Combat Doctrine: It is belived that before they turned to chaos they were master's of ranged combat,and preferred to destroy the enemies with there bolters than risk losing a limb in close combat.It has been said that they were formidable oppenents in close combat too,although due to there love of ranged combat this is impossible to prove.

 

How they turned Heretic: They were fighting a campaign on Holda,in the Artic circle,they had been sent to take care of an Ork and Tau invasion,both of them wanted the planet for diffrent reasons and the Dragon Claws were told to defend it at all costs. They were given reinforcements in the shape of an Imperial Guard Regiment by the name of The Emperor's Retribution,however they were stationed on opposite sides of the Artic Circle.

 

The battle lasted 3 years,and the marines had been victorius in the long run,however,the loss of life from all parties involved was catostrophic.They were stuck out in the open,no food no shelter and running low on ammo,Archimedes decided to look for somewhere for them to recooperate. They spent a week,climbing the mountains and trying to get to the shelter on the other side,where they found The Emperor's Retribution,with plenty of food and shelter.However,they were also without a working radio and they were too far away to get to

the Dragon Claws base in Silark. It was while they were here that they were attacked again.This time it was an Eldar invasion.The Emperor's Retriubtion and The Dragon Claws worked together to take out the enemy,but in a moment of rage and confusion due to there fatigue,The Dragon Claws killed the Guardsmen.Regretting what they had done,Archimedes decided to bury the troops that they had killed.This was when one of the Outstanding young privates heard some of the ex-Storm Lords talking about reporting Archimedes and The Dragon Claws to the the Inquisition.Lucius snapped,and taking one of the other mens Powerswords,killed the Storm Lords while they werent looking.He then turned to Archimedes,preparing to kill him.If the records are true then Archimedes pleaded with him,he only wanted to do what was best for the Chapter.Lucius let Archimedes live,but demanded he be made Chapter Master.Archimedes accepted.A new command squad was chosen,and they stayed in there shelter for another few days.

 

Then,one of there sensors went off.An Imperial Dropship has set down a few miles from there location.They knew that they were here to rescue them.However,on there arrival at the dropship,it is belived that The Dark Hands that had been sent to rescue them,paid them an unintended insult,which drove The Dragon Claws to slaugter The Dark Hands. They now had tons of vehicles,they had all of there original vehicles that had survived,The Emperor's Retributions vehicles and now the Dark Hands vehicles.

 

They no longer thougt of the Emperor as a Savior,they though of him as a curse to mankind,and they wanted to rid the world of anything that was a part of his empire.

 

Homeworld after turn: They are still situated on Holda,however they have the best anti aircraft defenses weve ever come across and even a drop pod would be blasted out of the sky and into a million pieces before the troops inside even knew what was going on.

 

Combat Doctrine now: They now prefer to surprise attack there enemies,attacking with whatever weapon seems to be more effective.They have kept the same rankings of troops as when they were an Imperial Army,meaning they have Veterans and Scouts.They are belived to be allied with another Heretic army Known as The Vansquised.We are currently looking into this chapter.

 

Belifs: They look upon the adopted father of there Chapter Master as a demi-god,and worship him as if he is a god.They also belive that there Chapter Master,Lucius Payne is a decendent of the ancient warriors that defended there homeworld millenia ago,known as the Dragon Warriors.This is true as far as we can tell,and he can apparently control all manner of dangerous animals,thus bulstering the power of there attacking force.

 

There new colours:

 

(The belt decoration isnt supposed to be that coilour,i forgot to change it.)

 

This is all the information we can currently find,if you require more just let us know Master,we will find information on there apparent allies The Vanquished.

 

Over & Out

 

So,what do you think?? I will be writing the IA of there allie's The Vanquised at some point in the next week,and ive already got lots of ideas for them.Thanks for reading.I need to buy Mechrite red and then i can attempt to paint my marines.

 

From

 

The Red Dragon

[Jankenbrau]

There are multiple things in your IA that completely contradict traditional fluff, and for seemingly no reason at all. Whenever possible look for the simplest explanation and most canon explanation. Here are some examples:

 

The home planet is attacked multiple times and all they have to defend it is a regiment of guard and the Dragon Claws. Apparently over a piece of prized piece of technology, the ad mech should be all over this to either retrieve it or destroy it (lest it fall into enemy hands).

 

They thought they were to replace the UM as the most feared chapter... on what basis? The Ultramarines were an original legion, and practically own a vast piece of imperial space.

 

I like the general idea of the chapter getting carried away with trying to cover up a mistake or failure and getting themselves excommunicated because of it (Dark Angels gone wrong sort of). But getting carried away and killing your own, or even purposefully killing your own is not unheard of. Also, how many ex-Storm Lords did lucius kill while they "weren't looking"?

 

You didn't explain why the Dark Hand's guns and force weapons failed to work on that fateful day. Having them fail adds nothing but confusion to your chapter's story.

 

"They are still situated on Holda,however they have the best anti aircraft defenses weve ever come across and even a drop pod would be blasted out of te sky and into a million pieces before the troops inside even knew what was going on." Better than Terra's, Cadia's, etc.? An enemy planet in Imperial Space would suffer the worst of orbital bombardments (look up cyclonic torpedoes). Refrain from trying to explain away inconsistancies in your writing by using the "but my marines are better because...". It sounds as if you are a child playing with a friend and their action figures, and suddenly you claim yours is invincible and there is nothing they can do about it. I think they should be fleet based or relocate away from imperial space.

 

The Dragon Warriors thing feels tacked on and has no basis in current fluff. Maybe the local populace has pskyer-shamans that use their powers to control the planet's wildlife, and taught it to the chapter (even that is stretching it I think)

________

 

Focus on creating a plausible and compelling reason for the chapter to turn or be banished by the imperium. All of us have made mistakes we would like desperately to cover up. And those who try sometimes get in more trouble than was part of the original wrong. Make the chapter feel like that situation and let everything else flow from there.

[Red-Dragon]

Hey

 

Thanks for the reply,not really very knowledgable(sp?) when it comes to official fluff.

 

 

The home planet is attacked multiple times and all they have to defend it is a regiment of guard and the Dragon Claws. Apparently over a piece of prized piece of technology, the ad mech should be all over this to either retrieve it or destroy it (lest it fall into enemy hands).

 

Hmmm...Perhaps i could say that it is in a slightly advantageos position stratigically and the Imperium wanted the planet to be defended but could not spare very many troops.Does that work better??

 

They thought they were to replace the UM as the most feared chapter... on what basis? The Ultramarines were an original legion, and practically own a vast piece of imperial space.

 

I was originally going to say something along the lines of "They though they were to replace ____ Chapter (anyone have a clue what chapter can go here.) as being the most specialized firearms chapter in the imperium.I think maybe that would of been better,but i couldent think of a chapter.

 

I like the general idea of the chapter getting carried away with trying to cover up a mistake or failure and getting themselves excommunicated because of it (Dark Angels gone wrong sort of). But getting carried away and killing your own, or even purposefully killing your own is not unheard of. Also, how many ex-Storm Lords did lucius kill while they "weren't looking"?

 

Thanks,that was an idea i was also quite fond of.I was thinking just now that instead of Lucius killing them all,there could of been threat of mutiny and because Archimedes was desperate to maintain order in the ranks,he ordered a squad to take care of the ex-Storm Lords,thus securing themselves as heretics.Althought,if i do that im stuck for how Lucius could become chapter master. Does this general idea work better,if so does anyone know of a way he could become chapter master without me killing off Archimedes?? Im quite fond of the charecter ive created for him,and ive decided on his wargear too.

 

You didn't explain why the Dark Hand's guns and force weapons failed to work on that fateful day. Having them fail adds nothing but confusion to your chapter's story.

 

Ahh,sorry forgot about that.Well,ill write that up in the next section. Basically,they were fighting in the artic circle(The Dragon Claws) and they discovered that there weapons froze up when it got too cold.Because of this,The Dragon Claws got their Techmarines to try and work out a soloution for this problem.They managed to fix the weapons and vehicles before winter came,and the Dark Hands weapons didnt work because it was too cold,so they were easily defeated.

 

"They are still situated on Holda,however they have the best anti aircraft defenses weve ever come across and even a drop pod would be blasted out of te sky and into a million pieces before the troops inside even knew what was going on." Better than Terra's, Cadia's, etc.? An enemy planet in Imperial Space would suffer the worst of orbital bombardments (look up cyclonic torpedoes). Refrain from trying to explain away inconsistancies in your writing by using the "but my marines are better because...". It sounds as if you are a child playing with a friend and their action figures, and suddenly you claim yours is invincible and there is nothing they can do about it. I think they should be fleet based or relocate away from imperial space.

 

Hmm...i was quite a fan of using Holda.Hmmm...how about,they have some of the best defences in the galaxy,but there base is situated deep underground so that it is more difficult for them to be attacked from space.I dont particularly want to change planet,as ive built up such a nice image of Holda in my head. Any ideas from anyone as to how they can stay on Holda??

 

The Dragon Warriors thing feels tacked on and has no basis in current fluff. Maybe the local populace has pskyer-shamans that use their powers to control the planet's wildlife, and taught it to the chapter (even that is stretching it I think)

 

Hmm...i was rather hoping that i could make the Dragon Warriors idea work,as that was going to be a rather large part of my chapter's history,particularly Lucius's history.Oh well,i guess i will just cut that part out,which is a shame as i quite liked it but i cant think of a way of making it fit in better.I thought it worked quite well,but now that i re-read it i realise that it doesent really.

 

Thanks for all your help mate,after all im not going to make this thing better without taking into account what people have said.

 

From

 

The Red Dragon

[Guest Mordray]

When it comes to traitor marines your basically screwed if you try to stay on your home world. The astral claws did that and the imperium spent eleven years and emperor only knows how many millions of lives to destroy them... a few of the astral claws did escape and eventually became the Red Corsairs but still they did lose their home world. The steel cobra's are example of a chapter with a known home world, but whose defenses are considered to be too effective and so they persist yet even they are being watched and forces are being gathered to finally destroy them.

 

The only hope a renegade chapter has if they avoid being pinned down by being a fleet based force or they keep their world hidden from the imperium, the best method of keeping something hidden is to keep it out of sight but keeping it in plain sight also works.

[Red-Dragon]

Hey

 

What it be possible to give them a diffrent home world when they were imperial and then in the ia say that the imperium arent sure where they are based now,they are thought to be fleet based when actually they are based on Holda??

 

The theory is that i could say that due to the Damage Done during the Battle for Holda,the planet is no longer of any use to the imperium or i could maybe say that Holda is belived to be a deadworld as far as the imperium are concerened and maybe say that they were fighting the battle on a diffrent planet,and they stole the Dark Hands ship,adapted it into the Dragons Eye and flew off to Holda,but due to the Slaugter the imperium knew nothing of the battle,and the first time they discovered that the Dragon Claws were heretics was when they sent in another few squads to find out what happened to the Dark Hands...Think that works?

 

From

 

The Red Dragon

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, your problem is, it seems, that you've gotten so attached to your creations that you're beginning to disregard the advice you're being given. You're trying to work in 'fixes' or 'work-arounds' that will get more and more convoluted as you try desperately to justify things that become more and more unjustifiable. Having the galaxy's best defenses was bad.

 

As a rebel, you are defying a government that controls near enough the entire galaxy. A government that seeks to crush all resistance, that executes billions of people a day, that sacrifices trillions a day just to further its aims and defend its beliefs. As Mordray mentions, the Astral Claws kept their homeworld after they betrayed the Imperium. The Imperium knew where to find them. It sent a Crusade against them, a Crusade that kept going until the Astral Claws were eradicated. The thing is that the Imperium has to eradicate any and all opposition in order to keep its tenuous control over the galaxy. Otherwise the Imperium would splinter. It cannot be seen to be letting heretics get away with resistance. A Space Marine Chapter, the sons of the Emperor? That's a betrayal that has to be paid in blood.

 

Could you keep your homeworld? Yes. The question is - for how long?

 

Would it perhaps benefit your background for the Imperium to send a crusade against you? I think it would. If you love this world so much, perhaps your Chapter does, too. For the Imperium to come in and decimate the world just to rid itself of your Chapter seems like something that would only strengthen their will; emphasise their determination to rebel, to flee a corrupt and decaying administration that is so uncaring.

[Red-Dragon]

Hey

 

Thanks,thats a brilliant idea actually. Me and one of my friends (BrotherDamascus) are writing a story about our chapter's as we both have a HQ on Holda,the end of the story could have the end of the planet,meaning that my chapter flee's and escapes just moments before there Homeworld is destroyed. They become a fleet based chapter and vow to attempt to destroy the Imperium Of Man,and recover some of there lost honour from having there homeworld destroyed.

 

Thanks for the help mate,it was a really big help and i will definatly have the planet destroyed at the end of the story.BrotherDamascus's chapter are mainly fleet based,but have a back up base on Holda so it isnt a real problem for the planet to eventually blow up. Ill try to right up The Vanquished IA soon,ive got some ideas for them that i think work quite well.

 

From

 

The Red Dragon

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, I can't say I'm too sold on two Chapters occupying the same world. One particularly promising recruit is all it would take for the two Chapters to come to blows...

 

...my chapter flee's and escapes just moments before there Homeworld is destroyed. They become a fleet based chapter and vow to attempt to destroy the Imperium Of Man,and recover some of there lost honour from having there homeworld destroyed.

 

That sounds good. Now you've got a motivating factor, which helps your Chapter. Depending on the way you play it, it could be cool. Think of all the millions of innocents that died - how will your Chapter take it? Are they blind with rage at an unjust Imperium? Guilty?

 

The ball's in your court. ^_^

[Red-Dragon]

Hey

 

Ive had a chat with BrotherDamascus and weve thrown around a few ideas,which will be revealed when our story is written.The final IA will follow the story,as events in the story will help to determine what the chapter is about and will help to create the full background of the Chapter.

 

Thanks for your help everyone,especially Commissar Molotov,youve helped me so much and i know that its mostly down to you that my ideas are flowing.

 

From

 

The Red Dragon

[Red-Dragon]

Hey

 

Well,due to difficulties with GCSE's neither me nor Damascus has started the story yet.I have,however,attempted to adapt my IA as best i could for now,i will probably end up using the story as there background and just use this to explain in brief who they are and what there reasons are for becoming heretics for example.

 

Dragon Claws IA.

 

Origins.

 

They were a succesor to the storm lords,who were created to fight off Xenos and Heretic invasions using there homeworld as a base.They were lead by a fierce man called Lucius Payne,who had been a Storm Lord veteran at the time of The Dragon Claws creation.He was an extremly large man,whos physical strength was almost unmatched by any of mortal blood.His strength was matched by his intelligence,and his skill with weapons.

 

They were fighting on there homeworld,Holda,when they were forgotten about.Reinforcements never arrived,and they had been low on ammo for a long time.The battle raged on,they were forced to fight using there close combat weapons,which they had almost neglected before this moment.They were as formidable in close combat as they were at range.They came across the Emperor's Retribution,and,in a moment of blind fury and rage,they killed them.They regretted it,and Lucius gave the order to clean the mess up.It was during this,simple task they discovered a flaw in there army.Some of the younger troops were going to report them to the Grey Knights,even though they themselves had been involved with the killing.This did not stand with Lucius and his generals,so they eradicated the problem.

 

They discovered a ship in the Artic quadrent,and went to invistigate.Upon there arrival,they found that it was the Dark Hands,and they had come to rescue them.While they were there however,the Dark Hands gave Lucius and his men an unintended insult,and they were already in a foul mood.The dark hands were killed,there bodys burned and there vehicles and weapons stolen.

 

Homeworld.

 

Holda,a planet known for its unpredictable weather and change in climate.They hail from the Jungle Regions of Silark and this is where they were belived to have set up there headquarters.However,they are now fleet based,following an attack by the Grey Knights,who could not defeat them on the planet so they blew it up.The chapter escaped just in time,losing a few troops but managing to keep the majority of them alive.

 

Belifs.

 

Before: They thought of the Emperor as the Saviour of mankind,the Almighty and they were the tools with which he would save the universe.They belived that they were the Emperor's favorites,but it wasnt true,because this title was bestowed upon the Ultramarines.

 

After: They now think of the Emperor as a curse,a plague on Mankind.They belive that they are now trying to save the world from Imperial lies and coverups,and are reknowned for there undying will to win against Imperial chapters,even when they are out manned.

 

Combat Doctrine.

 

Spending hours each day working on target practice,quick reloading and conservation of ammo,as well as learning to use their Close Combat weapons in the most effective and dangerous ways,they are formidable oppents,who will stay hidden until theyve worked out there oppenets weak points and then attack them,hitting hard,and with very calculated attacks,they are dangerous opponents for all those that come up against them.

 

They have a very clever Sorcerer in there army,who is able to control wild animals,allowing his troops to use them in battle to bulster there forces,as they have a very distinct lack of heavy weapons troops.

 

This one any better??

 

From

 

The Red Dragon

[Red-Dragon]

Hey

 

I know,i should of Edited my last past,but it took 10 minutes to load this box up,my computor is incredibly slow.Well,althought ive been very busy with GCSE's recently,my chapter(s) have been playing on my mind,of the two this one more often.Ive had a few ideas and would like feedback on them.

 

Following an attack by the Grey Knights,there planet was destroyed.Althought they fleed just in time,many men and women of much importance to the chapter were killed.One of the most notable of these deaths was Lucius's adopted father,Malcom Dragonis. He was reponsible for the Training of Lucius,as he was a Drill Instructor for The Marines in his younger years,and he took Lucius in,and raised him as his own son.This is where the Dragon Claws relentless anger stems from,the fact that the man who was responsible for Naming there chapter aswell as running there HQ when they were in battle,was killed.

 

Ive also had a few ideas on there Combat Doctrine.

 

They prefer to watch from far away,using Binoculars and Gunsights in an attempt to find a weakness,a flaw in the enemies ranks,and striking hardest at that flaw.If they cannot find a weakness,they will remain hidden until the Enemies are almost upon there location,and strike quickly,accuratly and powerfully.The Kill Teams have a game they like to play,which helps to determine who is the next inline for the master of there squad.They do something called a Kill Combo,killing as many enemies as they can,without stopping in a relentless attack that sometimes takes the enemies by surprise.

There stealth squads,preferring to stay hidden while this part of the battle is going on,wait for the enemies to deploy the troops from there vehicles,or transports before sneaking inside,killing the driver and stealing it for themselves.In the case of open topped vehicles,the snipers will hit the head of the Opponent,killing them instantly whenever possible,and having the men pick up the vehicle afterwards. Although some vehicles take a while to figure out,due to there lack of heavy weapons and vehicles,they often learn to use the enemies stolen vehicles and technology with great skill.

 

 

What do you think??

 

From

 

The Red Dragon

[snorkle]

You can't have a marine with a father figure. That's not how it works. And I thought Maclom was sickly anyways so he couldn't even be a marine. And the first chapter master comes up with the name of the chapter and decides on a homeworld.

For the grey knights part: it sounds good until you say the grey knights couldn't beat them so they destroyed their planet. Grey Knights are all psykers, they have the best armor in the imperium and they are the greatest fighters besides Custodes. They will kick your marines asses, no question, they'll best any marine chapter. Just look at the Firehawks. Maybe write that the remaining marines retreated to their underground base(are you still using that idea?) and the GKs couldn't get through due to the superior numbers and the fact that they didn't know the world very well.

Also mountain climbing won't kill a marine and they can sleep with one brainhalf and fight with the other so the don't get fatigued quickly.

I like your fluff a lot though. It's well thought out it just has the usual kinks in it. Keep writing and your chapter will have an awesome backstory in no time,

 

PS: Marines don't use dwarven(in 40k squat) swords. You'll need fluff for that if it's important to you.

[Red-Dragon]

Hey

 

Wow,i thought nobody read this anymore =]

 

You can't have a marine with a father figure. That's not how it works. And I thought Maclom was sickly anyways so he couldn't even be a marine. And the first chapter master comes up with the name of the chapter and decides on a homeworld.

 

Hmmm...well,i want him to be an important figure,and althought it doesent seem important,i was going to use this point as there motivation for succombing to the powers of the dark gods. Yeah, i wasnt sure whether i should have malcom as being ill or not,i might have him upon a throne with a life support machine. Any ideas??

 

For the grey knights part: it sounds good until you say the grey knights couldn't beat them so they destroyed their planet. Grey Knights are all psykers, they have the best armor in the imperium and they are the greatest fighters besides Custodes. They will kick your marines asses, no question, they'll best any marine chapter. Just look at the Firehawks. Maybe write that the remaining marines retreated to their underground base(are you still using that idea?) and the GKs couldn't get through due to the superior numbers and the fact that they didn't know the world very well.

 

I see what you mean about that actually.I should of known that it didnt work aswell as id hoped.It wasnt really thought out,and i think i know a few things i can do to change that actually. Hmmm...Perhaps they were having trouble gaining access to the fortress,and maybe the Dragons were hiding inside,preparing to mobolise as soon as possible.But they were attacked before they could be fully prepared,and lots of men were killed.What do you think??

 

Also mountain climbing won't kill a marine and they can sleep with one brainhalf and fight with the other so the don't get fatigued quickly.

I like your fluff a lot though. It's well thought out it just has the usual kinks in it. Keep writing and your chapter will have an awesome backstory in no time,

 

PS: Marines don't use dwarven(in 40k squat) swords. You'll need fluff for that if it's important to you.

 

Hmm...Well,the meaning was that they had been fighting almost non stop for almost a year prior to climbing the mountains.Maybe,they only suffered a few losses as troops slipped off due to the unfamilularity of there surroundings. Do chaos marines still recruit possible candidates?? Because that could be one way that the grey knights part and they amount of men they still have could possibly work.The grey knights killed several squadrens of men before the Dragon claws retreated,and to counter balance this loss they recruit outstanding young candidates. Does it work??

 

Thanks,i wasnt sure if anyone did,i hadent had a reply in so long.

 

Hmm, How about the weapons are crafted using Dwarfen Steel,provided by a Mining Colony which is Guarded by the Dragon Claws. Sound plausible??

 

Thanks for your help mate,i really appreciate it.

 

From

 

The Red Dragon

 

P.S there are a lot of changes to come in the next draft,some of which are outlined above,some of which will be a complete surprise. I hope to make this chapter as realistic and belivable as possible.=]

[snorkle]

I know what you mean with the father figure, he is an important part of Lucius' fall. Maybe make him a veteran from the chapter who was crippled and the chapter was so lacking in equipment that he couldn't be salvaged. Then you could use the throne-life support option.

The grey knights idea sounds OK, but you would have to lose a lot of men (probably at least 2 marines for one GK) to fight free. But it does work. The Firehawks got away too.

What do you mean by dwarven steel? For it to be dwarven doesn't it have to be mined and worked on by dwarves? I don't quite understand your angle here. Maybe just say they use a very high quality steel. But won't Lucius have a power weapon anyways?

Also are your marines with silencers dragon claws? I remember seeing them but I can't recall what chapter you said they were.