Warrior Of Ultramar Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 The Cabal are assumed to be telling the truth, yes. They are essentially what is left of the 'Old one' races - and so are trying to help the galaxy in the long run. After all, they've been around for so long mankind is nothing compared to them, just a 'spark in the darkness' as it were, and, like the Emperor, they want to see an end to Chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1510112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqatone Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I just finished reading it and can honestly say I didn't particularly enjoy it. The first two are still the better books in my opinion. I'm hoping the general decline in quality will soon stop. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1510409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Either, Horus wins, in which case, for the reasons above, the galaxy will tear itself apart within 2-3 generations, and mankind will be destroyed utterly. This will destroy the Chaos gods in the process, because the Chaos gods are essentially raw human emotions given form. so, when the last human dies, the Chaos gods will have no way to exist, as they are not the result of the galaxies alien races emotions. That isn't true at all. Slaanesh was born from the Eldar's emotions. As it is anything that can touch the Warp can feed the Gods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1510561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiss Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Thousand Sons were not evil. They felt turned on by the Emperor when he unleashed the Space Wolves on them. They didn't understand why the big E was so peeved that they had sent him warning of the heresy... Â The Word Bearers, in my opinion, are the big baddies of the whole event. They started to worship Chaos first, then helped to spread this to the other Legions. Â The Death Guard, you could say, would be the true "slaves to darkness", forced to bow to Nurgle in return for immunity from disease... Â I loved the book, it gave lots of little insights into the Unification Wars and the build up to the Crusade and dropped another hint towards the lost primarchs (nothing specific, just a vague statement about primarchs having over-stepped their bounds), then hits you with quite a cool set of revelations at the end. Â Top knotch stuff, can't wait for the next book (even though it's about silly ultrasmurfs...). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1510899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of the Emperor Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Thousand Sons were not evil. They felt turned on by the Emperor when he unleashed the Space Wolves on them. They didn't understand why the big E was so peeved that they had sent him warning of the heresy... The Word Bearers, in my opinion, are the big baddies of the whole event. They started to worship Chaos first, then helped to spread this to the other Legions.  The Death Guard, you could say, would be the true "slaves to darkness", forced to bow to Nurgle in return for immunity from disease...  I loved the book, it gave lots of little insights into the Unification Wars and the build up to the Crusade and dropped another hint towards the lost primarchs (nothing specific, just a vague statement about primarchs having over-stepped their bounds), then hits you with quite a cool set of revelations at the end.  Top knotch stuff, can't wait for the next book (even though it's about silly ultrasmurfs...).  Even then, the Space Wolves were sent by the Emperor only to bring Magnus in. It was Horus that ordered them to burn Prospero in order to gain the support of the Thousand Sons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1510921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiss Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Very true. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1510944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Hunter Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Is it out yet ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1511092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqatone Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 It's been out for several days. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1511095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Hunter Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Sweet i'm gonna buy it this weekend Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1511120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RADU LYKAN Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 To answer your second point most directly, Alpharius doesn't have 'two bodies, one soul,' but rather, he has a twin. Yes, Alpharius is a twin Primarch, indeed the only twin space marines in the galaxy. His full name is Alpharius Omegon, but the Alpha legion just call one Alpharius and one Omegon. This effectively means that technically, there were 21 Primarchs created. It also means that Guilliman did indeed kill Alpharius, its just the alpha legion are still led by a primarch ^^ Â Â it also makes it possible for omegon and a few mates to dress up as roboute and the ultras and make a mini fight movie with his brother, both could still be alive, that video clip that appears to show alpharius being killed by guilleman could all just be more propaganda. did anyone else think that alpharius was not as "I am a super cool hero" as the other primarchs as they are written in other heresy books? alpharius is just a bigger alpha legion marine, he doesnt seem to make people gasp in awe in his presence like the others? nor is he a consumate warrior, getting beaten back and stabbed by what is basicallly a well trained guardsman? all the others are demi gods on the field of battle. do you think he is less able than his brother primarchs due to his powers being split between twins? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1512551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherLoki Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Possibly weaker, or possibly the one in the fight isn't actually Alpharius but someone else? We know that the Terminator officer is large enough to pass for Alpharius. Â I love the way this book answers questions, and then sets up even more perplexing ones, like what motivates the 40k era Alpha Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1512556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiss Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 The Termi officer? I thought the only one big enough was Omegon... Â Did you skip all the parts where Chayne was bigged up throughout the book? He was a lunatic, plus Alpharius was taking on ten or so of his comrades at the same time. I think you can give him some leaway there... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1512590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior Of Ultramar Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 it also makes it possible for omegon and a few mates to dress up as roboute and the ultras and make a mini fight movie with his brother, both could still be alive, that video clip that appears to show alpharius being killed by guilleman could all just be more propaganda. Â How is this even possible? It wasn't a movie clip, the record of that fight is from an Ultamarines himself, fighting next to Guilliman when the ultras attacked the Alpha Legion's command post. It is a personal battle record. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1512594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RADU LYKAN Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 wasnt there something about the record not being verified or the ultramarine in question was later a heretic or something, been a while since i read it but do seem to remember the record being of questionable orgin. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1512611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Shadow Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I agree, apparently the only witness of Alpharius' defeat is an Ultramarines captain and so the validity of the report is still in question so there are rumours that Alpharius is still roamning the galaxy, who knows due to the legions secrecy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1513098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espada Azul Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Well, given the revelations in Legion, I think it's safe to say that the chance that ONE of the Alpha Legion's twin primarchs roaming around the galaxy in the 'present' of 40k is pretty large, but it would also mean that he'd lost some measure of control over his Legion, as a great number (like the folks shown in the first Dawn of War and in the new Soulstorm) seem to be wholely given over to Chaos. Yikes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1513212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of the Emperor Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 You don't use Chaos... it uses you. Â There's no way any of those Chaos Marines are followers of Alpharius's plan... well they kind of are, but they are unwitting pawns of Chaos. I'm sure Alpharius planned for this to happen when he turned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1513354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 ...getting beaten back and stabbed by what is basicallly a well trained guardsman? Chayne and his colleagues were made out to be more like death cult assassins in their skill level, rather than just guardsmen, and Chayne was by far the best, so probably the equivalent of a full assassin. Didn't exactly slow Alpharius down much, did it?! I don't think he was that much worse than the other primarchs. There's that description of when he met Horus too - boltered repeatedly and not stopped, and then still able to stand and chat at the end. Â I really hope the Alphas show up again later in the series, so we get some more information about what happens to them. It's interesting to speculate whether or not they have actually turned to chaos. Given their mutations and having to side with the other traitors it makes sense that they have, but have Alpharius and Omegon become what they want to destroy? And is that why they don't succeed in defeating the Emperor? Or did only some of them fall to chaos, and the others are still ok? (Having one of the twins fall to chaos and the other not would be a bit strange, but would fit with the themes of the heresy). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1513367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damo1701 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 After reading DoA I approached Legion with suspicion because, even though the master himself wrote it, I was uneasy the Doa had set the level the BL wanted writing at. Â IE: Half finished stories filled with worthless characters. Â How wrong I was. The revelation about Alpharius and Omegon was a great twist. Question is, did the big E even know about it? The other question is does Omegon or Alpharius lead the Alpha Legion now with the other one having been killed by Guilliman? Â I think Abnett has some of the best BL fiction ever written, what with starting the HH series. Â The Genehanced Ipmerial Army in this book seems totally spot on from leaving Terra with big E after the unification wars, they are rewarded with crusadal (even a word??) wars too :D Â Overall, if we look at Scanlon's DoA as a hiccough in the series, I would say things are back on track now :D Â Purity Seals galore for Abnett :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1513946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodhrin Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 ***SPOILERS*** Â Â Â Â Â Best HH book so far tbh. I had an inkling what was coming when you found out the other "big" marine's name was Omegon("I am the Alpha and the Omega", anyone? :P ), but the twist was brilliantly executed, for the simple reason that by that point, you were expecting something else entirely to be the twist. Â I really liked the implication that the current timeline is not the victory the Imperials believe it to be, but in fact slow and ultimate defeat, really rams the whole "gothic doom" theme of 40K home. Â The ambiguity about whether or not they've actually "gone over" is awesome too. Did one of the twins eventually become swayed by Horus, by Magnus later, by Chaos itself and betray his brother? Did the Primarch choose to reveal little info about the presto chango of sides to their men, resulting in the Legion itself turning against them? Is it all just an act? Perhaps the Legion became corrupted through their mortal operatives? Even though the Alpha's reasons for turning rebel have been revealed, they're more mysterious than they were before(NL's without the batwings, really). Â There were only two things I didn't like about this book; I couldn't read it in one go like I usually do with the HH books, and now I really want to do some Alphas(I don't have the time dammit :(). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1516632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serphanel Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 legion is out and has been on sale in my local GW since the end of feb i bought a copy on amazon uk on sunday. it has been released Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1516633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle captain corpus Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Well just finished my signed edition (thats right boys and girls...hahaha :P ), got to say its damnably good to have Abnett back at the helm after the abismal drivel that was DoA (rumour has it Mr Soto/Goto dude is bye bye too.... -_- ). The man can spin a truly epic yarn to say the least. If anyone else had tried these twists they wouldve fallen short, but with Abnett skillfully building up the layers and weaving forwards and backwards it works soooo well. And 2 Primarchs for your buck aswell! Sigh!.... So, Battle for the Abyss next........ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1517416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat_Lad Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 ...getting beaten back and stabbed by what is basicallly a well trained guardsman? Chayne and his colleagues were made out to be more like death cult assassins in their skill level, rather than just guardsmen, and Chayne was by far the best, so probably the equivalent of a full assassin. Didn't exactly slow Alpharius down much, did it?! I don't think he was that much worse than the other primarchs. There's that description of when he met Horus too - boltered repeatedly and not stopped, and then still able to stand and chat at the end. Â I really hope the Alphas show up again later in the series, so we get some more information about what happens to them. It's interesting to speculate whether or not they have actually turned to chaos. Given their mutations and having to side with the other traitors it makes sense that they have, but have Alpharius and Omegon become what they want to destroy? And is that why they don't succeed in defeating the Emperor? Or did only some of them fall to chaos, and the others are still ok? (Having one of the twins fall to chaos and the other not would be a bit strange, but would fit with the themes of the heresy). Â He did seem weaker than the others but that could be for several reasons, being split into 2 entities or even being the youngest in repect to fighting. But no it didn't seem to slow him down, he just grunted and killed the guy. Â One thing I was thinking about was how the 2 primarchs came about, and how did the Emperor not know. I mean were there the 2 of them in the incubation chamber, or did they split during transit in the warp? Â -T- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1517575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqatone Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 If you can dodge bolter rounds fired from Horus I think you're doing ok. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1517581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiss Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I think the Emperor would have known from the start (whether he designed them that way is another question...). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130618-legion/page/2/#findComment-1517887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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