"Legion" Novel...

[Leonaides]

Just a quick alpha legion question really...

 

Having read the book, and considering the general antipathy and disgust with which the Alpha's regard their fellow chaos marines - is it possible that they could still believe themselves loyalist?

 

Sorry, dont know if this has already been asked anywhere, but its something that occurred to me late last night.

[davidren2401]

There's an Alpha Legion novel? News to me, I must have a read of it. Personally I would have to say no purely on the fact that their Primarch fought and died in personal combat with Robute Guliman. Let's face it if you try to take a blade to Guliman you've got to admit you're a taitor. Horus may have been the Emperor's favorite but it's emarked many times, even in the Horus Herresy books, that Guliman was the most staunchly loyal.

[Guest pandion40]

Below is a review of Legion by Mechanicus off Warseer.

 

I have just finished Legion, one of Abnett's best works in my opinion. If you don't want to know any spoilers or any of the secrets listed ahead, don't read any further.

 

 

 

So - I'll start with the story itself; I liked it. It kept me interested and, well, the subtitle isn't secrets and lies for nothing. I felt that although some outlandish claims were thrown around, but they were done in a good way. Nice ending, and enjoyable. It takes place around two years before Isstvan V, and ends just about during the beginning of Horus Rising.

 

 

 

You barely see the Alpha Legion itself at work. You see it from the perspective of the Imperial Army, but little to nothing is from the Legion's perspective.

 

 

 

Also, it's much more... flavoursome and different, I suppose, than the others, though that might be more to do with the few astartes viewpoints in it. It felt more sci-fi to me than the rest of the series so far. It seemed a bit fresher rather than the well-trodden warporn you get from some BL books, though I don't object to those books on the principal of them being so - I'm entertained easily.

 

 

 

Now onto those secrets that were rumoured. I would like to just disabuse some of you as to the nature of them. There is no word of the missing Legions - well, a possibility as you'll see. Nothing on Alpharius' homeworld either. A few things of note:

 

 

 

1. The Cabal is a sort of council of the 'old kinds' - essentially, it seems to be a few of the remaining Old One races that survived to the present, much like what Gav Thorpe suggested on these forums so long ago, but on a lesser scale. They, it seems, took notice of mankind and recruited humans to their cause 'as long as there had been humans to recruit', because their farsight caused them to see that they would pay a pitiful part in the galaxy. They sought the Alpha Legion out to persuade them to join their cause, which I'll elaborate on later, because they were not blinded by the Imperial dogma like the other Legions, being the last founded.

 

 

 

2. Alpharius, primarch of the Alpha Legion has two bodies. One soul, two bodies. The other is named Omegon, rather unimaginatively. What this precisely means, I don't know. I presume that they were in the same pod; if they weren't then we have a missing primarch, but I doubt it. However, this does hint that Alpharius didn't die over at Eskrador. Not all of him, at least...

 

 

 

3. The Alpha Legion was loyal to the Emperor. Or to his ideals, at least. Due to circumstances which I will elaborate on below, Alpharius/Omegon decided the best way to remain loyal to his ideals was to join the traitors. See below.

 

 

 

4. The Cabal saw that the one way to defeat the Chaos gods (Primordial Annihilator, as the Cabal say) is to sacrifice humanity. The precise nature of why wasn't elaborated on, but a short vision of a galaxy with Horus ruling was shown. Horus, riven with self loathing and anger because he still had honour in the end. He felt guilt at his actions, and began to take out that guilt on others. Even his closest friends war with him. The human race will die within two or three generations. Chaos will burn brighter than ever in the final armageddon, before being extinguished as humanity brings the Chaos Gods down with them, and bringing down the Chaos Gods is the Emperor's highest priority. Humanity's sacrifice, in other words, saves the rest of the galaxy. We don't precisely know why that would happen, but perhaps it has something to do with 'overdosing' on humanity, neglecting other possible subjects, and not being able to sustain themselves afterwards, with the bulk of the emotional vibrancy in the galaxy gone; or perhaps Horus finds a way to take out vengeance on the gods - who knows? Just my thoughts. Of course, there's no way of verifying that would happen, or if the Cabal were just trying to manipulate Alpharius/Omegon into doing their bidding.

 

 

 

5. It also gives a view into the galaxy if Horus loses. Humanity stagnating, dying a slow death, with 'ten, twenty thousand years of misery and rot' to follow, until Chaos achieves ascendency. So that's the Cabal's prediction of the end of 40K in ten millennia time - unless they found another plan, of course.

 

 

 

I don't know if Abnett thought one or two of these was meant to be one secret, or if I included two secrets in one, or perhaps I missed one in my enthralment, but that's what I got out of it.

 

 

 

So there you go - enjoy.

Original thread = http://warseer.com/forums/40k-background/1...sy-loyalty.html

 

Black Library Legion Page with free extract = http://www.blacklibrary.com/product.asp?pr...0&type=Book

 

 

 

I also really enjoyed the book like Mechanicus said it focuses on 2 members of the Imperial Army and a human servant of the cabal as they come into contact with the Alpha Legion.

 

 

The Alpha Legion are described as extreamly pragmatic and willing to be uterly ruthless when needed. Alot of there original background seems to be untrue. They dont have a little Brother complex and are uterly loyal to the emperor, not Horus.

 

 

 

As has been said they are Shown 2 futures one were the Emp wins this is the present timline, a slow desent to superstition and ignorunce followed by the total and eternal Victory of Chaos, Or a future where Horus wins and then cosumed by self loathing turns on everyone else, the human Race is consumed in a massive war taking the Chaos gods down with them and leaving a free galaxy for the other Races.

They appear to take the second option as they believe the end of the Chaos gods to be the Emps main goal, but i would not be surprised if they are persuing a third option that the Cabel either didn't know about or tried to hide.

 

Anyway at least at the start of the Hersey The Alpha Legion have sided with Horus But have not Fallen to Chaos, they also have alot of knowledge of Chaos and are still loyal to the goals of the Emp. So it's left open if the Alpha legion of the present has fallen to Chaos or if they are still loyal to the Emp.

[DeathsHead]

That all sounds very silly and half-baked. I'm a little bit surprised, actually. I won't be taking it as canonical, that's for sure.

[Guest pandion40]

That all sounds very silly and half-baked. I'm a little bit surprised, actually. I won't be taking it as canonical, that's for sure.

 

I suggest you wait until you have read it first. most of the early reviews have been positive but there are always going to be people who dislike somthing. The book is well thought out and the Alpha Legion are well portraid.

 

 

There were only two things that didn't seem quite right to me, the first is the name Omegon the second was how quickly the Alpha Legion seemed to accept that the two visions presented were both true and the only possabilitys. This is why i believe they have some other agenda

 

 

[DeathsHead]

It's probably well written, but I dislike the premise. It's a little bit too "WHAT IF WE TURNED EVERYTHING ON ITS HEAD" for me.

 

I'll probably read it anyway, and grumble the whole way through.

[the jeske]

well , you do have to remember that the AL were always show as not the slaves of the chaos gods [unlike some of the other legions], even more they were shown as people who see demons and their worshipers as something not as good as them or their primarch . the AL does not worship any of the chaos gods and while they do use chaos , they never fell as deep as the BL or IW .

 

I liked the legion because it showed another reason why would the AL fight almost every loyalist .I mean in the old days the consensus was that Alfarius joined Horus , because he thought that the loyalists would be more powerful opponents [aka he saw the legions that joined horus as weaker and unworthy opponents ].

[Guest pandion40]

It's probably well written, but I dislike the premise. It's a little bit too "WHAT IF WE TURNED EVERYTHING ON ITS HEAD" for me.

 

I'll probably read it anyway, and grumble the whole way through.

 

 

I can understand that, it’s easier for me as I don’t play Alpha Legion. I don’t know the Alpha Legion Background as well as someone who plays them but as the jeske says they haven’t been portrayed as very dedicated to the Chaos cause for a while now, at least since the index Astrates article. My interest in them has grown as they have moved further from Chaos. I had a feeling this is where Legion was going to go, not the specifics but the end result a legion on Horus side but still Loyal to the Emp.

 

I hope they have the balls to carry this through to the 40K era, if any Legion could operate on the side of Chaos for 10,000 years without falling it would be the Alpha Legion. I think they will bottle it though and leave it open to try to satisfy everyone.

[Lay]

Closet Loyalists?

Wow, that's worse than renegades.

 

 

I mean in the old days the consensus was that Alfarius joined Horus , because he thought that the loyalists would be more powerful opponents [aka he saw the legions that joined horus as weaker and unworthy opponents ].

Source please?

There wasn't enough interaction between him and his other brothers (except Guilleman) to draw such a clear line.

He sided with the only primarch who appreciated and encouraged him.

[FarseerGeorge]

The premise seems a little silly if you ask me. To be honest I dislike the entire idea or theory that chaos/chaos marines aren't actually evil after all, they're just misunderstood. Cry me a river. The Imperium is not be run by nice people, it is a harsh, barbaric, closed-minded, xenophobic, theocracy but it is still better than chaos.

 

You might have started worshiping chaos for pretty good reasons but your right to say that you're just misunderstood ends when you start sacrificing planets in order to get a shiny new pair of wings from your deity of choice.

[Guest pandion40]

The premise seems a little silly if you ask me. To be honest I dislike the entire idea or theory that chaos/chaos marines aren't actually evil after all, they're just misunderstood. Cry me a river. The Imperium is not be run by nice people, it is a harsh, barbaric, closed-minded, xenophobic, theocracy but it is still better than chaos.

 

You might have started worshiping chaos for pretty good reasons but your right to say that you're just misunderstood ends when you start sacrificing planets in order to get a shiny new pair of wings from your deity of choice.

 

 

You’re missing the point. The book does not say they had to worship Chaos in order to save the galaxy, it says they had to help Horus win. At this point they plan to help Horus win but they do not need to start worshiping Chaos to do that. So they are not loyalist Chaos Marines, They are not Chaos Marines at all. They would be Renegades Loyal to the goals of the Emperor and would despise the Modern Imperium

 

 

We don’t know what happens in the next 10,000 years. They may have fallen to Chaos or they may not. It would be difficult but if any Legion could pretend to be on the side of the Traitor Marines without falling to Chaos it would be the Alpha Legion. GW would not even have to make the old Background obsolete, it could be explained as acting or simply that they recruit genuine Chaos Marines as cover. The Alpha Legion is the only legion who could do this due to their unique structure.

 

I dislike the entire idea or theory that chaos/chaos marines aren't actually evil after all as well. You can start out with good intensions, many do, but once you start down that path damnation is inevitable. The question is did the Alpha Legion start down that path at all or did they just convince everyone else they did.

 

 

If it turns out that they have started worshiping Chaos and are portrayed as still loyal to the Emperors Goals that would be stupid.

 

By the way The Alpha Legion is never described as nice. The Book starts with them allowing an entire company of Guard to be butchered so they can be draw the enemy out. They are ruthless pragmatists.

[Leonaides]

Just as a side note to the 10,000 yr old non chaotic marines - If (as I believe the Inquisition suspects) the majority of Alphas are still active in hidden bases within the normal universe the warping effects of chaos wouldn't likely affect them as they aren't in the Eye much. Also, they could still recruit and train new marines as normal loyalists do... A closet loyalist legion still on the loose within the Imperium. Hmmm, gives me a new idea for a few conversions...

[the jeske]

You might have started worshiping chaos for pretty good reasons but your right to say that you're just misunderstood ends when you start sacrificing planets in order to get a shiny new pair of wings from your deity of choice.

well they dont real worship chaos . the only thing they do is they primarch . they use chaos [not the gods , the power ] as a tool [a bit like the night haunter wanted the NL to work] . A lot of boons can be granted by lesser powers , that are never strong enough to over power the will power of a csm . All that couple with the fact that AL dont work inside the eye of terror , makes them the least "tainted" legion. Are they evil . Well thats a hard question what is evil , by our standarts all the races in w40k[save nids who are animals and ctan who are god like ] are evil. If you would ask , if the AL are egoistical ? I would say yes . they dont care for anything other then they brothers and the legion and even those can be sacrificed , if there is an important enough cause. Are they mad from eons of living . Yes , many are just like all other csm , but there are many younger brothers as the AL is the only legion that doesnt have problems with creating new recruits .

 

Source please?

There wasn't enough interaction between him and his other brothers (except Guilleman) to draw such a clear line.

He sided with the only primarch who appreciated and encouraged him.

Well , horus realy wasn't so helpful . all the changes to the legion tactics , the terminator companies etc was alfarius work alone . Also alfarius like a lot of other primarchs didnt like horus. Durning the heresy he did what he was told only in the begining . He didnt help with the siege of terra , but send all his forces against Russ .

[Guest pandion40]

Just as a side note to the 10,000 yr old non chaotic marines - If (as I believe the Inquisition suspects) the majority of Alphas are still active in hidden bases within the normal universe the warping effects of chaos wouldn't likely affect them as they aren't in the Eye much. Also, they could still recruit and train new marines as normal loyalists do... A closet loyalist legion still on the loose within the Imperium. Hmmm, gives me a new idea for a few conversions...

 

 

Indeed this interests me to. Most of the imperium would not recognise them as traitors anyway only the inquisition and maybe Space marine chapters. Especially if they toned down the spikes on their armour.

[Lay]

And yet, according to the (still ongoing!) Vraks campaign they are "unflinchingly loyal" to the gods.

 

I hope the whole thing ends for them like the old saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions", rather then having their current fluff completely retconned.

 

all the changes to the legion tactics , the terminator companies etc was alfarius work alone . Also alfarius like a lot of other primarchs didnt like horus.

Source pleeease. :)

(Is that terminator tidbit from a WD or am I missing a page on IA?)

 

Indeed this interests me to. Most of the imperium would not recognise them as traitors anyway only the inquisition and maybe Space marine chapters. Especially if they toned down the spikes on their armour.

Once again the Vraks campaign: There is a rule called "We Are In Disguise" that encourages players to use loyalist armour for Alphas.

[the jeske]

Source pleeease. smile.gif

(Is that terminator tidbit from a WD or am I missing a page on IA?)

about the hard feeling among primarchs ? the whole IA . but the horus part is from the horus heresy books . amone the primarchs that liked H were sangi , dorn and someone else I dont remember right now and as am siting in a guard tower right now I dont have the HH with me . The terminator part is either from an IA or a WD article on terminator/terminator armor.

I hope the whole thing ends for them like the old saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions", rather then having their current fluff completely retconned

well first on vrak we have a single AL cell working not the whole legion . thats one thing . also what does it mean loyal to the gods . Loyal like WB ? like BL ? like the cult legions? also remember to conquer chaos the AL plan to kill the whole human population that fuels the chaos gods . Now the other "loyal" to chaos legions want only to enslave [without worship/emotions there will be no chao gods] . Now who is evil now . Those who plan the extinction of their own race or those who want to change one hard regime for another [because living in a hive is as close as it gets to live in a demon world].

[Lay]

about the hard feeling among primarchs ? the whole IA . but the horus part is from the horus heresy books . amone the primarchs that liked H were sangi , dorn and someone else I dont remember right now and as am siting in a guard tower right now I dont have the HH with me .

That'd be Corax - I recall reading about his dislike for Horus in IA, but I can't say the same about Alpharius.

 

The terminator part is either from an IA or a WD article on terminator/terminator armor.

Must be WD then - thanks for the hint. :drool:

 

well first on vrak we have a single AL cell working not the whole legion . thats one thing .

They striked me as rather iconic for their legion - and the special character is called "the Scion of Alpharius" for a reason.

I doubt that FW didn't do their homework and created a random deviation of the Legion for the setting - especially since there is lack of stories involving them.

 

also what does it mean loyal to the gods . Loyal like WB ? like BL ? like the cult legions?

The difference is religious faith.

Even WB regard themselves higher as daemons and cultists - that doesn't mean that they use Chaos as a tool.

WB, BL and cults are not only loyal but very zealous and have utterly devoted champions - unlike AL.

 

Just because Space Puppies and Salamanders don't act like Black Templars doesn't lessen their loyalty to the Emperor.

 

also remember to conquer chaos the AL plan to kill the whole human population that fuels the chaos gods . Now the other "loyal" to chaos legions want only to enslave [without worship/emotions there will be no chao gods] . Now who is evil now . Those who plan the extinction of their own race or those who want to change one hard regime for another [because living in a hive is as close as it gets to live in a demon world].

Depends if they manage to stick to their own agenda after the heresy - and should this be the case, then the warband in IA 5 would definitely be a deviation from the true Alphas.

[Rain]

Actually I am pretty sure the Alpha Legion IA states that Alpharius was always distant from the Emperor and was instead always close to Horus who he respected as a master tactician and planner. Furthermore, Horus was the only primarch to "appreciate" Alpharius's complicated plots and not consider them wastes of time as Gulliman and other more staunch imperials did.

[DeathsHead]

What I dislike is the idea of the Alpha Legion actually having any sort of ideological stance besides their combat ethic, the joy of challenge, and their own arrogant freedom. In a way, I see them as a more focused, less sadistic version of the Night Lords; basically a parasitic, independent force that thrives in the cracks and crevices in the Imperium.

 

The concept of them having this totally inverted, long term goal just sort of doesn't quite 'fit' with my conception of their legion and the 40k world in general. Something about the story line of this novel suggests that Abnett may have felt a bit bored by the 'unexciting', established storyline, and decided to spice it up by throwing a 180 degree "what if" monkey-wrench into it.

[Rain]

Not to mention the fact that the destruction of chaos was never the original aim of the Emperor to begin with as chaos was pretty much an obscure cult prior to the heresy bringing it out as the huge threat it was. The emperor's goal was merely to unite all of humanity in peace, enlightenment etc and I really don't see how the destruction of the human race would lead to that.

[the jeske]

Not to mention the fact that the destruction of chaos was never the original aim of the Emperor

the E-man was born/created to fight/destroy chaos , he did believe that the shortes way to it is by enlighment . aka making the human race consist of only psychics blanks [in faith&fire , we see one of his machines to do that , destroyed] . There are only two ways to defeat chaos in long term first is to rid the world of emotions [ only psychic blanks left/ only nids left/only orks left/only ctan left] or the enslavers return and eat everything up .

[Guest pandion40]

Lay this Vraks campaign is in the Forge World Imperial Armour books right? I’ve had a look and part one seems to be in book 5 but I can’t see any info on part 2.

 

 

 

It seems to concentrate on renegades and the Death Corps is there enough in there on the Alpha Legion to justify a purchase.

[brother heckengar]

In Vrak, you have a true son of ALPHAUS. he has a demon wepon and his point cost is 150pts. If you have him as a HQ, you can have more then one squad of AL as troops. I`m bring a renegade army to ASTRO this year, with maybe one squad of AL. You can have one heavy weapon, and 3 special ones. Remember they landed there under being some loyal marines, and then they showed their true colors. AL are fighting to show everyone they are just as good or better then all the other marines. That didn`t give ALPHAUS a chance, because he was the last one found.

[Lay]

Lay this Vraks campaign is in the Forge World Imperial Armour books right? I’ve had a look and part one seems to be in book 5 but I can’t see any info on part 2.

It seems to concentrate on renegades and the Death Corps is there enough in there on the Alpha Legion to justify a purchase.

Yes, it's IA 5.

Being a campaign codex IA 5 has narrative fluff instead of descriptive fluff like in army codizes; so don't expect textwalls of background material concerning the more established armies.

And yes, the fluff about the Alphas is especially meager but at least you get an AL special character (with some obsolete rules like daemonic aura, darkblade etc.).

These spoilers contain all important events with AL ass kickery:

 

- the Deathkorps' campaign to retake Vraks gets delayed massively.

- DA show up with 500 men (half the chapter!) and loose about 200 in an ambush. Azrael gets almost killed too (Arkos again).

- The DA destroy the Vraks spaceport to make sure that the AL gets no reinforcement but at the end of the book... oh well, they didn't need it in the first place.

 

I enjoyed IA 5 although it's not CSM heavy.

[brother heckengar]

Just wait for it, look at hte last 2 pages of IA5. You will see a drop pods and a landraider, and World Eaters in the back round. Reforcements for Vrak. WE and DG, look on Forge World and you will see clerics of Nugle