Chaplain Mulcahy Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Ok, I have land speeders which I want to hide behind tanks. My opponet says I can't do that, but apparently they can hide behind normal size 3 cover. He said they can shoot over things that would normally block fire but I'm unsure. I've been rereading the rules but my eyes are bleary now. Question: Can I hide land speeders behind my preds to block LOS? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rymeer Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 A very interesting question Chaplain. I'm interested in the answers you get as well. So far as I know, you CAN hover your LandSpeeders behind tanks to 'hide' them from line of sight, since the tank is a much larger vehicle. But, I may be wrong, and we all know how far 'logic' takes one concerning rules questions! In any case, I will be keeping an eye on this thread. Rymeer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1506038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt tyranus Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 My interpretation of the rules is that skimmers can hide behind other vehicles, but other vehicles cannot hide behind skimmers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1506042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Black Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 At my local club we have always treated it as such. If they skimmer is behind cover or a tank and does not shoot then LOS is blocked. If you choose to shoot with the speeder then the enemy can see it in during their turn. We reason that the speeder can rise up to shoot or stay low to hide. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1506049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad king George Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 i would think the speeder could hover at different hieghts over wise how do marines get into the speeder or troops into other skimmers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1506053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somar Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 use line of sight, the only time you dont use LOS is if you are dealing with area terrain, so if it can be seen, it can be shot at (and if you can see it behind a tank, then it does not count as being obscured a la skimmer special rule) on a similar note, a pred can fire his turret weapon over a rhino parked right in front of it, and it can be shot at in return, but counts as hull down Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1506081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thraximus Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 If anything else I think it should also probably force a leadership test for target priority. So against the right army that can also help you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1506109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Skimmers do not block LOS. They're exactly like every other vehicle in terms of shooting and being shot at. If the skimmer can be entirely hidden by a tank, it can hide behind the tank. If a skimmer can't see through a tank, it can't shoot through a tank. model-eye-view is everything for vehicles, and the answer depends entirely on whether actual, real line of sight exists. The fact that speeders are skimmers absolutely fails to factor into the question at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1506119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Centurion Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Just take a "common sense" view. Skimmers can hover a few centimetres off the ground if they want so sure they can hide behind tanks. In your movement phase they can move higher and stop hiding. Many moons ago, there used to be rules for "pop up attacks" for skimmers, where they would hide behind something and only "pop up" in your own shooting phase just to fire off a couple of rounds then pop back down before the enemy had a chance to fire. Can't see why this would be a problem for any gamer. I have to concur with others who say skimmers don't block LOS. Because you can't actually adjust the hight of model, it would be very unfair to say your skimmer is floating a metre off the ground and blocks shots to that or the other. You could however declare something like that at the end of your movement phase, like telling your opponent, this skimmer has decided to block your leman russ' view of my predator (however with a blast template probably wouldn't make too much difference) My 2 pence... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1506579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycroft Holmes Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Just take a "common sense" view. Skimmers can hover a few centimetres off the ground if they want so sure they can hide behind tanks. In your movement ... You could however declare something like that at the end of your movement phase, like telling your opponent, this skimmer has decided to block your leman russ' view of my Not quite. Cale is 100% correct on this one. "Skimmers NEVER block line of sight" is in the BBB and there are no rules for a skimmer to be able to ignore LOS blockers, like other vehicles. Mycroft edit - spelling Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1506594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Mulcahy Posted February 28, 2008 Author Share Posted February 28, 2008 Skimmers do not block LOS. They're exactly like every other vehicle in terms of shooting and being shot at. If the skimmer can be entirely hidden by a tank, it can hide behind the tank. If a skimmer can't see through a tank, it can't shoot through a tank. model-eye-view is everything for vehicles, and the answer depends entirely on whether actual, real line of sight exists. The fact that speeders are skimmers absolutely fails to factor into the question at all. Thank you, that answers things nicely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1506620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mughi3 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 p20 of the BBB is quite clear. do not think of a vehicles size catagory (or think of it as area terrain), this only matters if it is trying to hide behind area terrain of a certain size or in some way involved in/through CC. when dealing with vehicles everything is true LOS you may always draw LOS over or past the model to shoot at something behind it if you have true LOS. so can your speeder be targeted behind a pred? depends on how things are modeled as to weather it gives the opponants shooting unit true LOS to the target. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1506776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 sorry but true LOS does NOT matter...a vehice behind Lv 3 area terrain can not see through it.....page 21 ..... LOS on super heavys titans , etc, that is true. ...... side to side true LOS works , just gets odd with height ...so yes a skimmer can hide behind a tank, or at least be obscured Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1531778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 first - seattleDV8, enough with the thread necromancy. second - a tank is not area terrain, it is WYSIWYG. all models have a height classification in order to deal with area terrain which also has a height classification. without one, the other wouldnt be of any use. some wysiwyg features have a height too, so that a model standing on a feature may use the height of the model itself or the feature for determining LOS over area and whatnot. they do not add as in many other rules systems. vehicles block the LOS from a model's eye view (MEV). no more, no less. a skimmer may hide behind a tank and be obscured (BBB P69) or actually hidden, determined by MEV. Nowhere in the rules do skimmers get the ability to fire from an elevated position and then lower themselves down to the height as modeled (or the bare skimmer sitting on the ground, which is bad form.) LOS works both ways for vehicles behind cover. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1531886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praeger Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 first - seattleDV8, enough with the thread necromancy. Thought I was the mod here? :wacko: But yes, cut out the un-needed threadomancy, unless you have something new and important to add I will start closing all threads you reopne after months have in some cases passed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1532752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdeathlegion Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 The BBB states that a skimmer must LAND at the END of it's turn, no joke. So yes, you can hide behind a predator (hover) and shoot your dakka, landing on the ground at the end of the turn (because you actually have to) and receive cover\obscured. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1939261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 First, that is entirely wrong. Skimmers cannot land (except for Tau skimmers) unless they are immobilized or destroyed. Check pg 71 of the BRB for details. Second, a skimmer on a low enough base can take cover behind a larger vehicle, gaining a cover save or, in the case of larger vehicles, even block LOS totally. This means the landspeeder can't shoot back. Third, the question was from 4th edition...in fact the last post was 1 year and 1 day ago. Your threadomancy is most displeasing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1939313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praeger Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I was wandering why I had posted on the 1st of April - I didnt remeber this thread. And look at that, my post FROM A YEAR AGO was condeming threadromancy - and look whats happened here. Topic closed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/130792-skimmer-questions/#findComment-1939815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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