The Astartes Vocates

[ToyShip]

I have skimmed the thread, and I feel that I have an understanding of the changes to the Vocates. Am I right in saying that the Execrators (4 o'clock) are opposed to the Reapers (10 o'clock)? As I sit here, I have this image in my head of the Execrators feuding with the Reapers even before the betrayal, sort of like the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves. This would lead to the Execrators particularly ticked off that they turned renegade, maybe leading them to pester the other chapters of the Vocates to provide more resources to the hunt for the Reapers. And.....this would lead to the Execrators thinking that the other chapters aren't doing enough to bring the traitors to justice. There might be a schism between the Oathbearers, with the Execrators distancing themselves. Something of that sort.

 

That said, I think im going to start from the ground up on the Execrators, "a frame up restoration" as they would call it in the Auto-body business. There was a lot I didn't like about the Execrators, but I'll keep what I think fits into their new idea.

 

Nine, I'm really liking the Alpha Wolves, so much that I may just have to paint a model or two, complete with combat drugs and slogans painted on their armor.

 

Anyway its nice to be back, I'll be doing more reading in this thread, and I'll be updating soon!

[Commissar Molotov]

Mhmm, the Zodiac (re-printed below, for those that don't want to go looking) does have the Execrators and the Reapers opposed. Just one more thing for the Execrators to hate, I suppose. I'll see if I can dig up the old notes for the Execrators. Are you going to start a new thread so we can contribute on ideas there? :P

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Zodiacmockup.jpg

[ToyShip]

Mhmm, the Zodiac (re-printed below, for those that don't want to go looking) does have the Execrators and the Reapers opposed. Just one more thing for the Execrators to hate, I suppose. I'll see if I can dig up the old notes for the Execrators. Are you going to start a new thread so we can contribute on ideas there?

 

I plan on it, as soon as I get some stuff written down, I unfortunately have a new computer and don't have any of the notes saved, so Ill need to go digging through my fluff-pile.

 

*EDIT*

 

I really like the Cult of the Mirror thing that was talked about earlier. It just makes me feel all tingly, I really hope it is used. :P

[Barret]

Good to see you back, ToyShip. The Execrators missed you.

 

Yes. Yes, the Mirror Cult will be used. My horrible crunch time at work is over, and I'm back on Liber duty so rest assured I'll be back at the keyboard aplenty.

[Commissar Molotov]

Mhmm, I was thinking about the Marines Ascendant a few days ago. They've certainly got a lot of potential.

[ToyShip]

Here something interesting from Octavulg's thread here.

The Space Marines, generally, have no gods - they have warfare. And the Codex Astartes is the holy text of their religion.

 

While I'm not sure if many people would agree with such a statement, I think that perhaps Ninebreaker's Alpha Wolves would agree :) .

 

What say you??

[ToyShip]

Molotov and i were discussing the Execrators yesterday and we thought that they would have a good relationship wit Barret's Thousand Swords. The Execrators pretty much lost their homeworld to the Reapers, while the Thousand Swords lost their entire first company. It just seems that they lost the most to the Reapers/Harvesters, so they would be sympathetic to one another. Maybe they are the chapters who push for the establishment of the honor company.

 

Just a thought.

[Barret]

Hmm. I like it. It's been quite some time since I last read the Execrators, so I'll have to go do so.

 

That idea is certainly a switch from my earlier thoughts on Oathbreakers and the Honour Company, when the T-Swords were more indifferent to the idea. I think it's a change for the better.

[ToyShip]

Im glad you approve. ^_^

[Commissar Molotov]

I have a semi-big post coming which I'll try to post today or tomorrow.

 

Stay tuned! Same Bat-time, same bat-channel!

[ToyShip]

Looking forward to it!

 

As to what we have been talking about, brothers! I seek your advice! Im thinking about putting together an army based on the Vocates honor company. I have a question though. What type of markings should designate the company? Molotov suggest something on their leg, and I tend to agree, leg or kneepad, but what should this symbol be? Possibly a scythe to Represent the Harvesters? Your input would be greatly appreciated, I should be starting to blog the progress within the week.

[Barret]

Well, my plan for the T-Swords was for them to mark any Marines who have returned from serving in the Honour Company with a white greave with a black, winged helix on it. However, that could be just a post-service thing if people don't like it.

 

That said, I think that the marking for the Honour Company probably shouldn't be as involved as, say, the Deathwatch, but it should be more pronounced than just a campaign badge. Maybe they repaint their left shoulderpad with a Honour Company logo and their Chapter icon on the right?

[ToyShip]

I could see them painting their shoulder pad, and I keep seeing them having a reapers scythe possibly behind a skull.

[Darrell]

Hello.

 

Still a lot to read in the thread, but thought I would let everyone know that I'm alive.

 

The Judicators themselves are mostly done. The article needs some reworking to explain a bit more behind why Eusebius became focused on judgement and why he felt so isolated in the new Chapter. Aside from that, though, the idea is essentially a done deal as of now.

[Sigismund Himself]

Welcome back Darrell :huh:

 

The thing I think we need to decide upon the most is the Reapers fall and exactly what happened eg. who was there, what damage was done, how many battles was there etc. It seems to be a component of many IA's.

 

I'm actually thinking to have the Sublimators initially not believe the fall of the Reapers. Seeing their position on the Zodiac, I can see them being skeptical on initial reports of the chapter's fall but then jumping in to help the rest of the Vocates.

[Commissar Molotov]

who was there, what damage was done, how many battles was there etc. It seems to be a component of many IA's.

 

As I have it now - though it's open to discussion:

• the Reapers fragmented as the Apothecaries rose up. This leads to a civil war where the loyalist elements of the Chapter are wiped out. Before that, the First Company Captain broadcasts a message to the Oathbrethren and the Inquisition.
  
• ....
  
• The Oathbrethren prosecute a purge against the hive-worlds (rife with corruption and taint, especially to angry, biased Space Marines) which the Reapers recruited from.
  
• As part of this, the Thousand Swords accidentally encounter a large warband, and the entire First Company is wiped out at Thermo-Pylon E.
  
• The Second Swearing - the Oath is re-sworn and the Honour Company is formed.
  
• Almost immediately, the Alpha Wolves quit the Honour Company, dissatisfied (and sure they can do better on their own)
  
• The Honour Company looks set to disintegrate.
  
• Low on 'raw materials', the Harvesters storm the homeworld of the Execrators, butchering and/or capturing most of the defenders and seizing gene-stock. The world is corrupted to the point that the Execrators virus-bomb it (?)
  
• This perhaps draws the bonds in the Vocates closer.
  

 

 

I would say that it shouldn't be a central part to most IAs - the Execrators' IA is perhaps the only one I can think of. Your Chapters should be able to stand on their own.

[Commissar Molotov]

Genealogy of the Astartes Vocates

Alpha Wolves	Omega Marines	Ultramarines
Angels of Perdition	White Panthers	Ultramarines
Black Watch	Salamanders	Salamanders
Castigators	Black Consuls	Ultramarines
Execrators	-----------	Ultramarines
Judicators	Libators	Ultramarines
Marines Ascendant	-----------	---------
Reapers	-----------	Imperial Fists
Shield Bearers	-----------	---------
Sublimators	Aurora	Ultramarines
Thousand Swords	Praetors of Orpheus	Ultramarines
Warlords	Novamarines	Ultramarines

[Commissar Molotov]

Barret's a little busy with his Sons of Dagda tournament army, but I thought it might well be worthwhile to have a look over some of the ideas he and I have conceptualised with regards to the Marines Ascendant, our 'Purity of Spirit' Chapter.

 

As part of that, I'll attempt to collate all the ideas that have been discussed thus far, so it might not make total sense. We'll give it a try, though.

 

'Space Marines forsake their humanity to preserve the humanity of others. This means that they only vaguely remember what it was like to feel the cold, or be upset, or tired, or feel pain, or be scared. They are aware that humans suffer from these frailties, but will often forget that humans are simply not capable of performing deeds that are second nature to their battlebrothers.'

 

Purity of Spirit

A pure spirit is something bright, blinding. Impossible to behold. This Chapter is somewhat alien, ethereal almost. Seperated from the rest of the Astartes and from Humanity. This builds upon the extant theme that in order to serve and protect Mankind, they must cease to be a part of it. As part of the process of becoming a defender of the Imperium, their souls are irrevocably altered into something inestimably more (and utterly less) than Human. Such a change reflects those wrought upon his body.

 

The Chapter has particular psycho-indoctrinal rites that remove the weakest part of a man - his soul, replacing it with something cold and pure. Just as a bionic arm can replace a broken limb, so the unflinching, unyielding 'steel' of the Chapter's cult can replace a broken, imperfect spirit, removing the trappings of humanity to cleanse an Aspirant, raising him to the Emperor's side. They may look Human, but they are not. They do not act, or think or even feel like Humans. And such a fact is utterly terrifying to consider. They are the messengers of the God-Emperor, standing guard over Humanity with infinite patience. They are pure, but that purification has terrible consequences.

 

"Yet across the gulf of space, minds that are to our minds as ours are to those of the beasts that perish, intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic"

 

Inside and Out

It has been argued that this Chapter should be functional sociopaths. They have no internal morality or code of ethics, taking everything from the Emperor and trusting nothing that comes from within. After all, anything that comes from within is suspect. Only the Emperor is truly pure, whilst all others can only aspire to His greatness, with some being greater than others. (A Chapter Master is considered to be purer than a neophyte, for example.) Each recruit would be wiped clean in some manner, so that they are basically automata, but as they age and build up that purity in their souls, since it is no longer coming from within... They turn their souls from lamps into mirrors. The light they generate is not their own, but a reflection of the Emperor shining through them. The Chapter's cult of belief revolves around the mirror, which is seen as being a potent symbol. Consumed by the mirror-cult - both the Emperor and the Marine are mirrors, reflecting back at each other. But the Marines are imperfect mirrors - they spend their entire lives attempting to refine themselves so as to better reflect the Emperor. Every Marine carries a mirror into battle - A warrior need only examine the mirror tobe reminded of his place within the Imperium, of the role the Emperor has devised for him.

 

Men fail, weaken, turn against each other and die. The Emperor succeeds, lives on enternally and is the salvation of mankind. Thus, these Marines seek to cease to be men, but to be a fraction of the Emperor, reflecting him from within themselves. They are not the sun itself, but rays of sunlight, made of and sent by the Emperor. Because they turn themselves into such, they can do no wrong, though they can fail from weakness of spirit. A cracked mirror reflects imperfectly. (Traitor Marines would be seen as having been imperfect reflections of the Emperor's magnificence.)

 

 

Chapter Structure

Librarians in the Chapter would be considered capable of communing with the Emperor, akin to the Angelic Choirs of Christian belief. They are not regarded as martial warriors - rather, they safeguard the Chapter's purity and serve as conduits with the Emperor. They wear smooth, faceless mirrored helmets that are said to reflect only the viewer's true self.

 

Chaplains would be serve a rule similar to that of the Commissars - their job would be to constantly watch and gauge the purity of a Battle-Brother. After all, once a Mirror has cracked, it cannot be repaired. Captains are viewed as avatars of ascending purity, advanced along the road of purity. Theirs is the task of providing an example to the Battle-Brethren; a reflection.

 

Techmarines, with their divided loyalties and devotion to the Machine God are excluded from the Mirror-Cult and are heavily segregated from the rest of the Chapter. Though they can never truly attain Purity of Spirit, the Techmarines have blended the worship of the Emperor-as-Omnissiah with the Mirror-Cult and, as the Mirror-Cultists seek to reflect the Emperor within as they already do without, the Techmarines seek to mirror the Omnissiah without as they do within. Indeed, they seek mechanisation at a rate beyond the obsessive dedication of the Magos' themselves. Every one opts for the Rite of Pure Thought, wherein the entire right hemisphere of the brain is replaced with a cogitator engine linked directly with the left hemisphere, and most have entirely replaced their faces with that of the machine at the minimum. Thus they do give up their own identity to be subsumed into the Emperor-Omnissiah. As the Marines seek to mirror the Warrior-Emperor, the Savior-Emperor, so the Techmarines seek to mirror the Omnissiah-Emperor. For the Marines, they external, fleshy mirroring is done as part of the transition from human to Astartes, and they must make a mirror of their souls. For the Techmarines, the internal mirroring is done though the Rite of Pure Thought and their indoctrination into the Cult of the Omnissiah, so they must mirror the Omnissiah-Emperor in their flesh.

[Tyrannicide]

I'm getting a Vitrian-heavy feel from the 'Purity of Spirit' Chapter, not a bad thing at all (Vitria is a world dominated by all things glass). I think that there's some good ideas in here. The mirror-cult has definite potential, and it makes the Chapter 'pop'. By far, my favorite aspect out of the notes, is the Librarians helms, which 'reflect the viewers true self'. Would it be something along these lines?

[kil78]

the mirror-helms of the libs sounds much like the masks of the harliquin shadow seers, was this intentional?

[Darrell]

My concern about the Spirit Chapter would be that people may not be interested in them when their spirits are boiled away. Astartes already have precious few human characteristics and when you take those away, they might be the perfect warriors but there's not much left with which people can relate. I would be worried that even a perfectly composed IA article would leave them feeling flat and stale, simply because there's no real human flavor left. I get the feeling it would essentially be a Chapter of really upgraded combat servitors. Again, it would make them devastating on the battlefield but I don't know if there would be anything left that would make them interesting to read about.

[ToyShip]

My concern about the Spirit Chapter would be that people may not be interested in them when their spirits are boiled away. Astartes already have precious few human characteristics and when you take those away, they might be the perfect warriors but there's not much left with which people can relate. I would be worried that even a perfectly composed IA article would leave them feeling flat and stale, simply because there's no real human flavor left. I get the feeling it would essentially be a Chapter of really upgraded combat servitors. Again, it would make them devastating on the battlefield but I don't know if there would be anything left that would make them interesting to read about.

 

I feel I have to disagree. Earlier in this thread, it has been stated that when they are aspirants that they are basically automata ,"upgraded servitors", as you put it. In this you are correct. But as the Marines become more and more inducted into the Cult they begin to show their "true-selves", their personalities. I sort of see this as them losing all sense of self, but discovering who they really are in the Emperor's grand plan. This, I suppose, would mean that they would have a new, completely different personality from what they had before. I dont really know if any of that makes sense, as it seems that I really was just repeating myself. :D

 

I also suppose that this new personality would be very strange, even more inhuman than before, just not servitor-like. THeres a personality there, just something no one has ever seen before.

^_^

And Btw Mol, I think that it was decided that the Execrators were Guilliman's geneseed a while back.

Anywho, I like the direction they are giong, especially the Librarians and how the Techmarines are segregated from the rest of their brothers. Nice Stuff ;)

[ToyShip]

*BUMP* I was reading through the DIY articles that are stickied at the top of the forum, and I happened across Molotovs article on the Ad-MEch. So i clicked on one of the links and I read the article on the various ad-mech factions, and I had an epiphany. Maybe, before the the Reapers went renegade, they had close ties to the Organicist faction of the Ad-Mech. Im sure the Genetor Magi would help out a group of Marines looking to increase their knowledge of the organic, and this way the chapter could learn some techniques, maybe some forbidden ones, that most chapters wouldnt know. Just some thoughts :P

[Barret]

What this? A nice, convenient summary of the Marines Ascendant? Could this possibly be a helpful nudge from Molly to yours truly? ^_^

 

 

ToyShip hit the nail on the head about the progression from "servitor" to something more. I picture the Captains and other Chapter leadership as variations on Zarathustra, only with less helpful exposition and talking to old men, and more lighting people on fire and hitting them with chainsaws.

 

 

The Librarians' Mirror-Helms are certainly proving popular. ;) No, they're not intentionally related to an Eldar artifact, mainly because I wasn't aware of its existence. Thanks for pointing it out! And yeah, that Haze helmet is kind of how I envisaged them, only reflective instead of yellow.

[Commissar Molotov]

Definitely good to have you back, Nine.