Sigismund Himself Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 Welcome back Darrell :huh: The thing I think we need to decide upon the most is the Reapers fall and exactly what happened eg. who was there, what damage was done, how many battles was there etc. It seems to be a component of many IA's. I'm actually thinking to have the Sublimators initially not believe the fall of the Reapers. Seeing their position on the Zodiac, I can see them being skeptical on initial reports of the chapter's fall but then jumping in to help the rest of the Vocates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted May 29, 2008 Author Share Posted May 29, 2008 who was there, what damage was done, how many battles was there etc. It seems to be a component of many IA's. As I have it now - though it's open to discussion: the Reapers fragmented as the Apothecaries rose up. This leads to a civil war where the loyalist elements of the Chapter are wiped out. Before that, the First Company Captain broadcasts a message to the Oathbrethren and the Inquisition. .... The Oathbrethren prosecute a purge against the hive-worlds (rife with corruption and taint, especially to angry, biased Space Marines) which the Reapers recruited from. As part of this, the Thousand Swords accidentally encounter a large warband, and the entire First Company is wiped out at Thermo-Pylon E. The Second Swearing - the Oath is re-sworn and the Honour Company is formed. Almost immediately, the Alpha Wolves quit the Honour Company, dissatisfied (and sure they can do better on their own) The Honour Company looks set to disintegrate. Low on 'raw materials', the Harvesters storm the homeworld of the Execrators, butchering and/or capturing most of the defenders and seizing gene-stock. The world is corrupted to the point that the Execrators virus-bomb it (?) This perhaps draws the bonds in the Vocates closer. I would say that it shouldn't be a central part to most IAs - the Execrators' IA is perhaps the only one I can think of. Your Chapters should be able to stand on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted May 31, 2008 Author Share Posted May 31, 2008 Genealogy of the Astartes Vocates Alpha Wolves Omega Marines Ultramarines Angels of Perdition White Panthers Ultramarines Black Watch Salamanders Salamanders Castigators Black Consuls Ultramarines Execrators ----------- Ultramarines Judicators Libators Ultramarines Marines Ascendant ----------- --------- Reapers ----------- Imperial Fists Shield Bearers ----------- --------- Sublimators Aurora Ultramarines Thousand Swords Praetors of Orpheus Ultramarines Warlords Novamarines Ultramarines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted May 31, 2008 Author Share Posted May 31, 2008 Barret's a little busy with his Sons of Dagda tournament army, but I thought it might well be worthwhile to have a look over some of the ideas he and I have conceptualised with regards to the Marines Ascendant, our 'Purity of Spirit' Chapter. As part of that, I'll attempt to collate all the ideas that have been discussed thus far, so it might not make total sense. We'll give it a try, though. 'Space Marines forsake their humanity to preserve the humanity of others. This means that they only vaguely remember what it was like to feel the cold, or be upset, or tired, or feel pain, or be scared. They are aware that humans suffer from these frailties, but will often forget that humans are simply not capable of performing deeds that are second nature to their battlebrothers.' Purity of Spirit A pure spirit is something bright, blinding. Impossible to behold. This Chapter is somewhat alien, ethereal almost. Seperated from the rest of the Astartes and from Humanity. This builds upon the extant theme that in order to serve and protect Mankind, they must cease to be a part of it. As part of the process of becoming a defender of the Imperium, their souls are irrevocably altered into something inestimably more (and utterly less) than Human. Such a change reflects those wrought upon his body. The Chapter has particular psycho-indoctrinal rites that remove the weakest part of a man - his soul, replacing it with something cold and pure. Just as a bionic arm can replace a broken limb, so the unflinching, unyielding 'steel' of the Chapter's cult can replace a broken, imperfect spirit, removing the trappings of humanity to cleanse an Aspirant, raising him to the Emperor's side. They may look Human, but they are not. They do not act, or think or even feel like Humans. And such a fact is utterly terrifying to consider. They are the messengers of the God-Emperor, standing guard over Humanity with infinite patience. They are pure, but that purification has terrible consequences. "Yet across the gulf of space, minds that are to our minds as ours are to those of the beasts that perish, intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic" Inside and Out It has been argued that this Chapter should be functional sociopaths. They have no internal morality or code of ethics, taking everything from the Emperor and trusting nothing that comes from within. After all, anything that comes from within is suspect. Only the Emperor is truly pure, whilst all others can only aspire to His greatness, with some being greater than others. (A Chapter Master is considered to be purer than a neophyte, for example.) Each recruit would be wiped clean in some manner, so that they are basically automata, but as they age and build up that purity in their souls, since it is no longer coming from within... They turn their souls from lamps into mirrors. The light they generate is not their own, but a reflection of the Emperor shining through them. The Chapter's cult of belief revolves around the mirror, which is seen as being a potent symbol. Consumed by the mirror-cult - both the Emperor and the Marine are mirrors, reflecting back at each other. But the Marines are imperfect mirrors - they spend their entire lives attempting to refine themselves so as to better reflect the Emperor. Every Marine carries a mirror into battle - A warrior need only examine the mirror tobe reminded of his place within the Imperium, of the role the Emperor has devised for him. Men fail, weaken, turn against each other and die. The Emperor succeeds, lives on enternally and is the salvation of mankind. Thus, these Marines seek to cease to be men, but to be a fraction of the Emperor, reflecting him from within themselves. They are not the sun itself, but rays of sunlight, made of and sent by the Emperor. Because they turn themselves into such, they can do no wrong, though they can fail from weakness of spirit. A cracked mirror reflects imperfectly. (Traitor Marines would be seen as having been imperfect reflections of the Emperor's magnificence.) Chapter Structure Librarians in the Chapter would be considered capable of communing with the Emperor, akin to the Angelic Choirs of Christian belief. They are not regarded as martial warriors - rather, they safeguard the Chapter's purity and serve as conduits with the Emperor. They wear smooth, faceless mirrored helmets that are said to reflect only the viewer's true self. Chaplains would be serve a rule similar to that of the Commissars - their job would be to constantly watch and gauge the purity of a Battle-Brother. After all, once a Mirror has cracked, it cannot be repaired. Captains are viewed as avatars of ascending purity, advanced along the road of purity. Theirs is the task of providing an example to the Battle-Brethren; a reflection. Techmarines, with their divided loyalties and devotion to the Machine God are excluded from the Mirror-Cult and are heavily segregated from the rest of the Chapter. Though they can never truly attain Purity of Spirit, the Techmarines have blended the worship of the Emperor-as-Omnissiah with the Mirror-Cult and, as the Mirror-Cultists seek to reflect the Emperor within as they already do without, the Techmarines seek to mirror the Omnissiah without as they do within. Indeed, they seek mechanisation at a rate beyond the obsessive dedication of the Magos' themselves. Every one opts for the Rite of Pure Thought, wherein the entire right hemisphere of the brain is replaced with a cogitator engine linked directly with the left hemisphere, and most have entirely replaced their faces with that of the machine at the minimum. Thus they do give up their own identity to be subsumed into the Emperor-Omnissiah. As the Marines seek to mirror the Warrior-Emperor, the Savior-Emperor, so the Techmarines seek to mirror the Omnissiah-Emperor. For the Marines, they external, fleshy mirroring is done as part of the transition from human to Astartes, and they must make a mirror of their souls. For the Techmarines, the internal mirroring is done though the Rite of Pure Thought and their indoctrination into the Cult of the Omnissiah, so they must mirror the Omnissiah-Emperor in their flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannicide Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 I'm getting a Vitrian-heavy feel from the 'Purity of Spirit' Chapter, not a bad thing at all (Vitria is a world dominated by all things glass). I think that there's some good ideas in here. The mirror-cult has definite potential, and it makes the Chapter 'pop'. By far, my favorite aspect out of the notes, is the Librarians helms, which 'reflect the viewers true self'. Would it be something along these lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kil78 Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 the mirror-helms of the libs sounds much like the masks of the harliquin shadow seers, was this intentional? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 My concern about the Spirit Chapter would be that people may not be interested in them when their spirits are boiled away. Astartes already have precious few human characteristics and when you take those away, they might be the perfect warriors but there's not much left with which people can relate. I would be worried that even a perfectly composed IA article would leave them feeling flat and stale, simply because there's no real human flavor left. I get the feeling it would essentially be a Chapter of really upgraded combat servitors. Again, it would make them devastating on the battlefield but I don't know if there would be anything left that would make them interesting to read about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyShip Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 My concern about the Spirit Chapter would be that people may not be interested in them when their spirits are boiled away. Astartes already have precious few human characteristics and when you take those away, they might be the perfect warriors but there's not much left with which people can relate. I would be worried that even a perfectly composed IA article would leave them feeling flat and stale, simply because there's no real human flavor left. I get the feeling it would essentially be a Chapter of really upgraded combat servitors. Again, it would make them devastating on the battlefield but I don't know if there would be anything left that would make them interesting to read about. I feel I have to disagree. Earlier in this thread, it has been stated that when they are aspirants that they are basically automata ,"upgraded servitors", as you put it. In this you are correct. But as the Marines become more and more inducted into the Cult they begin to show their "true-selves", their personalities. I sort of see this as them losing all sense of self, but discovering who they really are in the Emperor's grand plan. This, I suppose, would mean that they would have a new, completely different personality from what they had before. I dont really know if any of that makes sense, as it seems that I really was just repeating myself. :D I also suppose that this new personality would be very strange, even more inhuman than before, just not servitor-like. THeres a personality there, just something no one has ever seen before. ^_^ And Btw Mol, I think that it was decided that the Execrators were Guilliman's geneseed a while back. Anywho, I like the direction they are giong, especially the Librarians and how the Techmarines are segregated from the rest of their brothers. Nice Stuff ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyShip Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 *BUMP* I was reading through the DIY articles that are stickied at the top of the forum, and I happened across Molotovs article on the Ad-MEch. So i clicked on one of the links and I read the article on the various ad-mech factions, and I had an epiphany. Maybe, before the the Reapers went renegade, they had close ties to the Organicist faction of the Ad-Mech. Im sure the Genetor Magi would help out a group of Marines looking to increase their knowledge of the organic, and this way the chapter could learn some techniques, maybe some forbidden ones, that most chapters wouldnt know. Just some thoughts :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barret Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 What this? A nice, convenient summary of the Marines Ascendant? Could this possibly be a helpful nudge from Molly to yours truly? ^_^ ToyShip hit the nail on the head about the progression from "servitor" to something more. I picture the Captains and other Chapter leadership as variations on Zarathustra, only with less helpful exposition and talking to old men, and more lighting people on fire and hitting them with chainsaws. The Librarians' Mirror-Helms are certainly proving popular. ;) No, they're not intentionally related to an Eldar artifact, mainly because I wasn't aware of its existence. Thanks for pointing it out! And yeah, that Haze helmet is kind of how I envisaged them, only reflective instead of yellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nine_Breaker Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 First off, it's awesome that the Astartes Vocates is moving again with the previously AWOL members on board (most of them, anyways). Second, I finally managed to get up a seperate thread for the Alpha Wolveshere! Third, I've got to agree with Toy about the Marines Ascendant. I think they become more interesting by stripping all of their humanity away and making something almost completely alien to what humans should be. I'm really liking where that chapter is going! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted June 5, 2008 Author Share Posted June 5, 2008 Definitely good to have you back, Nine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrantKaiser Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Read a bit of this. Great ideas and stuff. I like it. I look forward to seeing it finished! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund Himself Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Raise. Raaaaaiiiiiiisssssseeeee. Can you smell the dust? My next modeling project is set to be the Vocates Honour Company. I plan to use the Black Reach set to accomplish this and start this project in December. So to accomplish this, I need some details set down. Who's around to help establish this, besides Molotov and Barret? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be26 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Yes. What details are you after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 Well, it really depends on how you're going to construct the Honour Company. I figure you're going to do one squad of each of the eleven Chapters, though in 'actuality' certain Chapters contribute heavily to the Honour Company, whilst others have entirely absented themselves (the Alpha Wolves, for example). Tell us a bit more and we can probably provide opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nine_Breaker Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Funny thing. Yesterday I started back on the revision of the AoP and today this pops back up. Well I can certainly be around to help with things, but if it's a modeling project I don't know how much help I can possibly be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund Himself Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Well, it really depends on how you're going to construct the Honour Company. I figure you're going to do one squad of each of the eleven Chapters, though in 'actuality' certain Chapters contribute heavily to the Honour Company, whilst others have entirely absented themselves (the Alpha Wolves, for example). Well, I intend to establish it entirely to fluff. Which we have to make first :) So settling on which chapters still send marines and what kind of marines or equipment they send is what I intended. Then I can start the modeling. So it wouldn't necessarily be 11 squads from each chapter. Some chapters may choose to send a ship instead of marines, others (such as the Black Watch) may provide tanks instead of squads and a few may send specialists instead of a larger commitment of marines. Well I can certainly be around to help with things, but if it's a modeling project I don't know how much help I can possibly be. As above, I wanted to establish all the fluff behind the Honour Company before I started modeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colrouphobic Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I was around before, and around now, I can do some visuals if the fluff is established or close to establishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund Himself Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 What I can find from the older threads. I know there was more on the old website, I'll have a try at retrieving it later. the Reapers fragmented as the Apothecaries rose up. This leads to a civil war where the loyalist elements of the Chapter are wiped out. Before that, the First Company Captain broadcasts a message to the Oathbrethren and the Inquisition. .... The Oathbrethren prosecute a purge against the hive-worlds (rife with corruption and taint, especially to angry, biased Space Marines) which the Reapers recruited from. As part of this, the Thousand Swords accidentally encounter a large warband, and the entire First Company is wiped out at Thermo-Pylon E. The Second Swearing - the Oath is re-sworn and the Honour Company is formed. Almost immediately, the Alpha Wolves quit the Honour Company, dissatisfied (and sure they can do better on their own) The Honour Company looks set to disintegrate. Low on 'raw materials', the Harvesters storm the homeworld of the Execrators, butchering and/or capturing most of the defenders and seizing gene-stock. The world is corrupted to the point that the Execrators virus-bomb it (?) This perhaps draws the bonds in the Vocates closer. I was around before, and around now, I can do some visuals if the fluff is established or close to establishment. That would be awesome, Col. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barret Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Well... The Thousand Swords contribute heavily to the Honour Company. They have a particular beef with the Reapers (after all, who wouldn't hate giant robots from the cold void between galaxies, bent on an unceasing cycle of mass extinction?) and have always been a big part of the Honour Company. Most of the seconded Marines come from one of the Reserve Companies; the one that is trained to deploy as bikers en masse. The Sixth? The Marines Ascendant I'm not sure about. While they would probably be a part of the HC, I think it would be in smaller numbers. Probably never more than a squad at a time, if that. In more general terms, I don't think that the Honour Company would be structured like a Battle Company. Instead, it would be a much more fluid organization consisting of whatever Marines, equipment, etc, have been sent by the Vocates. While there would probably be a relative balance of the various types of squads and vehicles, it probably wouldn't be as fixed as a Codex formation. Did we ever talk about how the leader of the HC would be determined? Election? Trials by combat? The most senior officer present? Are there regimented "terms" for which Captains lead the HC? Shifts, that each of the participating Vocates take? How big, roughly, is the Honour Company? Battle-Company-sized? I know it would fluctuate, but a rough average might be a good bit of info. Is there any kind of unifying marking for the members of the Honour Company? Some kind of crusade or campaign badge? Do they repaint one of their shoulderpads? Something else? I know among the Thousand Swords, any Marine who has served in the Honour Company is permitted to repaint one greave white, with a winged prime helix in black for each term of service. How does the Honour Company get around? Do they have a Strike Cruiser or Battle Barge (and attendant escorts, I would assume) on semi-permanent secondment? Does the provider of the transport fleet fluctuate? Maybe they use captured Reaper vessels, taken during the initial purging. How does the Honour Company interact with the wider Imperium? I'm assuming they would have relatively close ties to the Inquisition, or at least some elements thereof, so that they can get any and all intel on the activities of the Reapers. Obviously, they don't spend all their time fighting the Reapers/Harvesters. Do they get involved in other conflicts as they roam around, like a "normal" crusade/fleet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 I'm a little conflicted with the Castigators. My feelings is that in later years they have contributed to the Honour Company, but that their contribution has been minimal - they couldn't not contribute, for honours' sake, but they've been busy. So their contribution would be minimal. (That also means you don't have to struggle with my Chapter symbol, Sig!) My thought is that (within the Honour Company) the Castigators get far more attention than they deserve. What with Baraquiel being such an instrumental character, the others tend to defer to the Castigators, or look to them to break a deadlock. I don't want that to mean that the Castigators always command - I don't think that would be the case at all - but the Castigators would be influential indeed. I would suggest a Veteran Squad from the Castigators - seems like a decent compromise. I agree with Barret that the Vocates Honour Company (abbreviated to VHC for convenience) would have a fluid structure, depending heavily on what the various Chapters contribute at any particular time. We likely have ten of the remaining eleven Chapters each contributing - that means at the minimum, we could expect ten squads - but certain Chapters would contribute heavily - the Sublimators, Execrators and Thousand Swords would do so, for example. So the VHC could end up numbering as much as 300 Marines at times. Part of me thinks that as 999.M41 draws near and the various Chapters of the Astartes begin to look inwards, to fortify against the coming storms, the VHC might shrink a little in size. I don't think that there would be 'shifts' - that seems a little too arbitrary to me. I'm a little undecided, so I'm willing to allow Sigismund to decide much of the specifics of the VHC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nine_Breaker Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I imagine the Angels of Perdition would send one of their librarians plus an honor guard of a squad or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund Himself Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 The numbers issue- I have half a company of the Sublimators committed at all times. I may scale it back. AoP- one Librarian plus 1-2 squads Marines Ascendent- 5-10 marines Thousand Swords- heavy commitment Judicators- ? Black Watch- vehicle and techmarine support? Execrators- heavy commitment Warlords- perhaps provide fleet arrangements Castigators- 1-3 squads? Shield Bearers- ? Part of me thinks that as 999.M41 draws near and the various Chapters of the Astartes begin to look inwards, to fortify against the coming storms, the VHC might shrink a little in size. A nice idea. I think that I would plan to model the Vocates Honour Company in the decade of 990M41 to the current day of 40k. A lesser number of models that way :wub: The symbol of the honour company I planned was the Harvesters (or Reapers) symbol (I couldn't find a description of it) broken in two by a sword. Then possibly the other distinguishing mark would be a white helmet or white shoulder pads. I can't manage to get anything from the old Vocates site. Mol, would you be able to retrieve the details on the Honour Company from there? I remember we had a number of discussions we had on the Second Swearing (and First) of the oath. If we had something for Colruphobic to do, what would you guys like to see? Possibly the First or Second Swearing of the Oath is an idea that I had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barret Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 If we had something for Colruphobic to do, what would you guys like to see? Possibly the First or Second Swearing of the Oath is an idea that I had. Either would be cool. The First Swearing would have all those mighty heroes of ages past, but the Second could be quite evocative, with the banner of the Reapers smoldering to ash in the background. Just to clarify a couple things. The Marines Ascendant would have one Veteran Squad on permanent attachment. The members of that squad would rotate, but that entry on the Chapter "org chart" would be always with the VHC. As for the T-Swords, recent events (Hive Fleet Behemoth, namely) have certainly diverted much of their attention and perhaps the strength they are capable of sending, but hate for the Reapers still burns hot for them. Several Tactical Squads, with Rhino support. Maybe an Assault and Devastator squad. A Techmarine, to care for their wargear and a Chaplain for their souls. Plus a Venerable Dreadnought, preferably one of the few who was there at the time of the Second Swearing. The T-Swords cadre would be commanded by a Captain or senior Sergeant. A small detachment (two or three) of the Throat Cutters, probably. That actually leads me to my next thought. Because of the VHC's nature as a multi-Chapter thing, it might not be quite as rigid a command structure as within a proper Company. I would suggest that the senior commanders of each Chapter would act almost as a council. One, probably the most senior/gifted/charismatic Captain would be in overall 'command' so that there's one definite leader, but there might be a level of discussion on tactics, deployment, "what do we do now" between all the officers. Furthermore, what if the VHC isn't actually one monolithic company? What I mean is, there's one Vocates Honour Company. But within that there could be multiple fighting forces. Maybe they have three Strike Cruisers, and each is filled with Marines from the various Chapters and act semi-independently and only come together for large engagements. That would be a convenient way for us not to have a half-Chapter size force rampaging around after their personal bugbear (which might upset various people) and allow for multiple people to have different VHC armies without them having to exist in alternate universes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.