People that won't play you.

[WorldEaterDP]

I currently have several friends that just won't play me sometimes. They think Chaos and my lists are very cheesy and they act like they wouldn't have fun playing. It has kinda hurt our 40k group and when we do have 2vs2 games they pair me up with there person who hast he problem. I was wondering if anyone other Chaos player has issues like these? People just seem to flip a <DELETED BY THE INQUISITION> when ya run two lash's or something they "think" is cheesy. Makes me wish I could use the old dex agaisnt them. :)

[Amon-Chakay]

Try telling to them if they are afraid of you as you are better player than tem hehehhe

 

this works for me when someone don't want to play against me because he thinks he would lose...

 

...whatever, he loses, hehehhehehe

[Maladon]

Nope, I don't run dual lashes, so I don't have that problem!

 

I honestly don't see why people think dual lashes are any good, a good veteran player could easily counter that and beat it.

[Tfcdogbert]

Noone refuses to play me generally as i do my best to keep my lists cheese free and in the spirit of everyone having a good time.

 

On another note, i don't think under many circumstances people could describe chaos as cheesy, lash being perhaps the only thing i've heard of as being so, (i personally disagree with it being cheesy, see signature).

[DeathsHead]

Having two Lash Princes suggests to me that you have a power-gaming motivation for playing, and this would possibly be reason enough for me not to have any interest in playing with you. Why? Because if I wanted genuinely competitive gaming I'd play chess. I only play 40k to see the fluff come to life, and I'm only really interested in playing with other people who have a similar attitude. Of course, winning is nice, but again, I'm much more interested in a good narrative and an accurate rendition of the 40k world. Playing styles like yours are antithetical to this.

 

While your gaming partners may not feel as strongly about this as I do, perhaps they sense that something about your gaming attitude doesn't match up with theirs. That, or maybe they're also power-gamers at heart, and they just don't want to lose.

[Captain Idaho]

i play 40K for fun. its not fun playing 40K when someone has a list that is unbeatable with any list you are likely to take. if i took "cheesey" lists, then that wouldnt be a problem, but most of our gaming group take things considered "cool" and fun, usually having a good mix of units etc. games are great fun.

 

we have banned Lash in our gaming group, and it was mutual (including the Chaos players). no one enjoyed playing against it, the players who used it didnt enjoy playing a predictable game.

 

basically, you play for fun, if people dont like playing something then they dont have too. if a casual gaming group doesnt like playing it, that is fine. if i went into a non-tournement environment and met a player who promptly played something on the table i didnt like, why would i sit through it? why would i do something i dont enjoy?

 

maybe if you made some house rules, like no cheese, then you could have some opponents again.

[the jeske]

or they just have plain bad armies and dont wont to invest money in to buying new models for a proper lists . I have seen this happen a countless times . 5/6 people start playing at some time they reach the 2k pts limit and suddenly there is guy with an uber eldar lists , gunline sm player , a new chaos dude and a guy that thought that a bikers list is cool . well 3 of those can have fun playing each other , the biker guy gets pimp slapped all the time . note the guys with good lists are lucky now . but what happens if you get a salamander player [full footslogg only flamer and melta , that doesnt use librarians because he sees them as un-cool] the biker guy , a GK player and the chaos guy . well now we get problem of one guy having a list that most time can win with few problems against all the others . Well my advice is you have to go and talk to your friend , why doesnt he want to play . maybe change your lists a bit[i know its hard with chaos ] no lash , no oblits , pure csm footsloggin army . And there is also another option . the tournaments. no one is going to say he wont play you[well 99% of the times] nothing is unfluffy , people play only with the best lists and playing against those will make you a better gamer.

[Sandolphon]

There's one player at our store who will constantly run overpowered lists and tailors them pretty much any game. On top of that he constantly comes across as condisending and is overall kind of a jerk, and he managed to lay down that final straw that broke me from ever wanting to game with him again, 40k or otherwise.

I've got a pretty fluffy list at 1500 pts for my Angels of Vengeance, and it's mediocre at that point level, and absolutly worthless at any other. It's a tough army to play to begin with. So we've got a newer Tau player who's got a little under 1200 points or so painted, and for some reason we decided to allow this other guy to use some of the Tau players empty slots and fill with some of his guard stuff to bring thier side up to 1500. Turns out that he decides to draw a standard Leman Russ and a Destroyer Tank Hunter from the Armored Company list, with the Destroyer being crewed by a tank ace. Sweet. My core unit is my Deathwing squad with a Librarian in TDA... who now get to try and get across the table with an AP2 Blast weapon staring at them. So turn one, straight up crap scatter for the deepstrike, even worse Inv saves, and there goes 5 of my Terminators... oh wait, that's the whole freaking squad. Now my Master of the Deathwing and my Librarian are indipendant characters standing in the middle of the field about 6" closer than the rest of my army. After one shot.

The next 5 turns are spent wondering why I play this &$%@ing game. Thankfully after that he left and I got to vent about it and not feel like too much of a dick. See, I'm the nice guy of the gaming group and have a hard time turning down somebody for a game, especially somebody who none of the experienced players are really willing to play. But I'm pretty sure I'm going their way now.

And the crowning glory of all of this? He commissioned me to convert that $@ tank for him a couple months ago. I built that #*&%ing tank.

 

Not quite the same problem, but it's just the biggest problem I've run into. It's just no fun to play against this guy. There's even been games that I've beaten him pretty well, and he still sucks the fun right out of it, usually by claiming that certian rules work some way, being insanely stubborn about it, and not even admitting he was wrong when you rub his nose in the BBB where it blatantly says that Defensive Weapons are NOT strength 7 lower. Either that or his downright unpleasant level of cockyness. What it all comes down to is that for some reason or another, games involving this guy are NOT fun, no matter what the outcome.

 

You just need to talk to them and find out what exactly is making it less than fun to play against you, and if it is that you've just got an unbeatable list, then maybe tweak it a little and *gasp!* challenge yourself by running a list where you've actually gotta think and maybe even have little chance winning. Some of my most enjoyable games have been where I've gotten spanked. "I may have lost 90% of my army, but my freakin' scout seargent b*tch slapped Eldrad into the warp, so I claim moral victory."

[the jeske]

My core unit is my Deathwing squad with a Librarian in TDA... who now get to try and get across the table with an AP2 Blast weapon staring at them. So turn one, straight up crap scatter for the deepstrike, even worse Inv saves, and there goes 5 of my Terminators..

ok so you landed on the side of lemman russ didnt blow it up with 1 AC or RL [and you yourself are saying that you play a sub optimal DA list] , you get bad scatter and die and then you blame it one the guy that use a tank? something that could be shaken the whole game and never fire a shot ??? and what would you like him to fill the pts with ? naked IG ? I mean I rant if he took 300 pts in hellfire mortars that would be unfair against DAs . but two tanks . how many tanks did the tau guy had? maybe those could be those hammer heads you would face in a normal[and they are way way better then leman russ].

"I may have lost 90% of my army, but my freakin' scout seargent b*tch slapped Eldrad into the warp, so I claim moral victory."

if you managed to get hth with eldrad played in an non apo eldar list , than I salute you and you earned more then a moral victory.

[DeathsHead]

My solution: Avoid pick-up games. Get together with a group of likeminded fellows, build your lists together. Develop narrative campaigns, fluffy games, make sure that everyone is building their lists with "What will make this campaign really awesome" in mind. This is a lot more work, and involves getting more involved with the people in your gaming group, but it makes everything WAY more fun.

 

For example, right now my girlfriend and I are building lists, building terrain and coming up with cool game ideas together. Our lists aren't monstrously overbalanced, or if they are in a particular case, it's because it's supposed to be that way for a particular game.

 

In my mind, this should all work more like an RPG and less like a giant game of checkers with cool looking game pieces.

[Sandolphon]

Like I said, really really bad scatter that took them out of range of the scary tank, and my army is severely lacking in long range fire. It's geared for city fight, and I had no idea I'd be fighting two armor 14 long range guns on top of the hammerhead.

The point I was making is that of all the things he had to pick from, he just happened to take the most devistating tank in his entire army. Nevermind the Tau already have two rail guns and I've only got two armored units on my list, it just so happens to be the most optimal tank in that particular demi-codex for killing Termies. The point was that he does this sort of thing any chance he gets, and even though it's caused 95% of the players to refuse to ever game with him, he still does these things. Trust me, this is just a small taste of the way this guy is.

 

As for Eldrad, that was one of the games where the Deathwing actually did what they were supposed to do, in that they were increadably tough, sucked up alot of their fire, and the rest of the army seemed to be the bigger threat than the three remaining little scouts that were sneaking up behind Eldrad. Granted Eldrad killed the two other scouts while Sarge was charging up his powerfist, but it was worth it.

 

I've also spawned him with my Chaos Sorcerer. It was beautiful.

[chillin]

I've never had any one not want to play me. Anyone would have a hard time calling any of my list cheesy, I tend to go the other way. I don't use lash at all.

Did you ever even consider making a list that didn't have 2 lashes ? That's what I would do if I couldn't get a game using twin lashes. That seems pretty self explanitory.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

If it's a legal list, cheese or not, there's no reason aside from personal issues that should stop someone from wanting to play you. If that's the case, then they lose, plain and simple. Personal preference is irrelevant so long as the armies are Codex legal; they don't like it, leave 'em. :sweat:

 

Edit bad (swear) language. Insane Psychopath

[Lord Doyok]

Well, nobody can calls World Eaters cheese.. go and play World Eaters and everyone will wanna fight you. I must say, the WE are the best army i have. People just like playing against these bloodsuckers. Every time i drop by to the club, i usually able to have 3 games and never had fewer than 2 games. Even though i usually wack them to pieces, they keep coming at my WE next week and the next week and the next week. They must have become addicted to pain. hahaha.. .

 

There's this Tau Boy who has been asking for my WE (after i crush him 3 times). Its been 3 weeks. maybe i'll drop by this weekend and give him another taste of Khorne. And then this Eldar Boy, and that orkish fella and .... WE is the best.

 

Say no to Cheese, Vote for Khorne.

[Sandolphon]

Lots of times it's just personality. We used to have a player who did Eldar and the old Word Bearer Daemon Bomb army, two of the meanest things out there (back when the second one still existed), and mainly gamed with us to practice for tournaments, which he regularly finished first or second. Needless to say you pretty much never had a chance against this guy. However, he would always give you advice, joke around, and the best part, cheer for your side! I never had a game against him that I didn't enjoy, regardless of how bad I lost. It was fun.

 

Like I said, sit down and talk to the guys, and find out exactly why they're not having fun. If it's only because they've never got a chance, well it does suck, for both sides, and if you want to continue playing them, you may have to tone it down. Not to mention that can't be much fun for you, running the same thing, with the same play style, and same tactics, week after week with the same result. That's why I've got the better part of like 5 different armies.

[Muskie]

If people refuse to play you, especially if they are your "friends", what does that say about you? Or about them?

 

There are gaming cliques, and everyone seems to put down Magic the Gathering players, are there still Magic the Gathering players, all the miniature guys, historical, sci-fi, Napoleonics all could band together against the common enemy of the Magic players... :sweat:

 

Now back to your problem. If people don't want to play with you, you can take your toy soldiers and go home or ask yourself why...

 

Let me tell you a story about the 2003 Vancouver GT. There was one guy who had 3 Wraithlords, some falcons/wave serpants, a farseer and then banshees and firedragons. I had to play that guy after I was 2-1 after day one. I got smoked. He got to place the mission objectives, after I leant him mine because he didn't make any like instructed. He had modelled his Wraithlords to be crouching... He put the objective the minimum distance onto the board from his side, all his guns ignored my power armor saves. He probably did some other dubious things, it was five years ago so my memory is a little hazy... I was masacred it was the least enjoyable game I've ever played, but I kept up appearences because I'm not a prick.

 

But I wrote on the little comments section "Not worth getting out of bed to play this guy."

 

No one liked him or his army, or his questionable tactics. At Adepticon they say it is illegal to pose your models to gain an in game advantage such as crouching Wraithlords...

 

That guy eventually lost, I think he was 4-0 after beating me. I ended up 3-2-1. However I finished well above him in the overall standings because I wasn't a prick, I didn't get repeatedly dinged by my opponents for sportsmanship and army selection and I finished 3rd in painting.

 

I had no shortage of people who wanted to play me after hours, who wanted pictures of my army, who wanted to know how I painted it, or how I converted it, or what one model was... The Eldar guy... well in Canada the GW tournament staff reserve the right to ask people to never come back, I'm not saying the guy was banned, but he certainly was ostracized. Lots of people from the States, Alberta, the Island they were unanimous that he was the worst guy to play in the tournament. His soft scores were extremely low. I think by the end of the second day he got the message.

 

One of my main pieces of advice for people going to a GT or other large tournament is don't be a prick.

[DuskRaider]

I regularly play against one of my friend's who is generally loathed at our LGS for being cheesy. He's notoriously know for playing long ranged armies (Tau obviously), setting up the board to his advantage, and then sitting back and using the oodles of Railguns against... really anything. I still consistently obliterate him and I play a fluffy (almost, mechanized) Death Guard army. I look at people like this as a challenge, he can bring no tact or planning to the table, just his big AP1 guns, and still get housed.

It's a strategy game, there's no such thing as a truly unbeatable army, just people who are cheap and others who have no tact. I look at a great example: Dark Eldar. For all intensive purposes, they have horribly fragile troops, they're outdated, many times outnumbered, their vehicles are made of glass, and yet a GOOD player can take out any foe, no matter if it's an ultra-cheesed out Tau army or a swarm of 5 wound (lame) Carnifex heavy Tyranids. It all comes down to planning.

So bring me all your cheesy players, I'll play them all. Maybe I'll win, maybe I'll lose. But in the end I'll still know I was better.

[Smurfalypse]

No offense but the way you come across writing up this post makes you sound like a huge butthole. I wouldnt want to play you either just because of your attitude, the fact that your little gaming group isnt willing to play you is enough for anyone to plainly see that you are a jerk or some sort of elitest and well playing people like you outside of tournaments is just a plain waste of time.

 

Have fun

[Muskie]

No offense but the way you come across writing up this post makes you sound like a huge butthole. I wouldnt want to play you either just because of your attitude, the fact that your little gaming group isnt willing to play you is enough for anyone to plainly see that you are a jerk or some sort of elitest and well playing people like you outside of tournaments is just a plain waste of time.

 

Have fun

 

Perhaps less tactful than me, but still a similar observation/take on the situation.

 

In my original gaming group we had too people who constantly found ways to abuse the rules, especially when it came to using stand in figures which we allowed back in the early 90s because GW stuff was tough to come by... Anyway they started to get the hint because people didn't seem to want to play them either. :-)

[Aarhus]

*grin* Whenever I go for a pick-up game against a stranger, and they ask what army I play, I always ask if they've made their army list already.

If they say no, I'll say I've already made my list, and it'll be a surprise when I open my case, since I never tool my list to others (for pick-up games), so I expect the same in return.

 

That being said, when I expect someone to power-game against me, I'll do the same.

On my local forum, we have something called The Challenge Board. It allows people to plan games ahead of time, with people's armies listed in plain sight (and cannot change from that army to a different), and the more wins means more points. First place gets... a prize of some sort (to be determined at a later date).

 

However, I'll always pack an Epistolary with my marines, in case someone pulls the dual-lashes in a friendly game.

 

 

Cheers,

Lawrence.

[chillin]

they don't like it, f**k 'em. :huh:

-

Well if he's having trouble getting people in the group to play him and it is effecting not only him but other players when they try to do 2 on 2, f**K 'em is not the best attitude. Still leaves you with no body to play against. Sure you can say f**k 'em but they're the ones having games and your the guy people don't want to play. So who's really f**ked ??

-

Years ago in my gaming group we had a guy that at 1st was using 3 WL's. This was in 3rd ed., no hidden PF's. It was no fun playing against an army that could way outshoot you and you couldn't get into hth b/c he would send his WL's in and NOTHING in your army could even wound them much less kill them. He quickly learned that people really didn't want to play him anymore and he stopped using WL's (took 1 sometimes).

[Lord Doyok]

3 Wraitlords?? bring em on.. not that i mind.. Nidzilla/Armored Co. is something else.. Lucky i was able to draw against them. others just got obliterated. Those are the cheese of cheese. Hard one to chew.

 

Chaos cheese?? i can never see any Chaos army as cheese (some tends to go towards that though). even dual lash is defeatable. 2 Lash + TSons, 2 lash + Blastmasters, 2 lash + oblits?? Dont really like playing them, but i've defeat those couple of times and will do it again sometimes.

 

but as people said, if people dont wanna fight you.. then there must be something wrong with your play man.. look inside and find it yerself.. cheers

[Joah from Alberta]

The spider must make itself attractive to its prey. I don't believe power gaming is what turns people off more than the actual whining, fidgeting, and crying. I think etiquette is in order. People love good manners, at the table, in business and in gaming. If you practice a good etiquette then people will appreciate you more for who you are and not care so much what you pack. I come from the school of loyalty and reservation, whereby every game that I play is to my honour. It is my greatest honour in this Godforsaken whole of a shyte Universe to be embellished in this vest of flesh and play a formidable game against another person. (Apologies, I had to give up my cat today and am feeling a tad blue.) I would offer that the next time you play, take note of your table manners, observe what you say and how you react. Only by being honest to yourself will others allow themselves to be honest with you.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

they don't like it, f**k 'em. :)

-

Well if he's having trouble getting people in the group to play him and it is effecting not only him but other players when they try to do 2 on 2, f**K 'em is not the best attitude. Still leaves you with no body to play against. Sure you can say f**k 'em but they're the ones having games and your the guy people don't want to play. So who's really f**ked ??

 

 

If God gives you lemons, you find a new God. If the impact of his Codex legal army list makes people not want to play him, and they have problems finding folks to fill in that aren't him for 2v2, that's their bad karma for being <DELETED BY THE INQUISITION>ty friends. You can't impress your will on someone else just because you have issues beating their army, and then have the temerity to bitch when you don't have enough players. Forcing someone into a cookie-cutter army by holding games hostage is plain <DELETED BY THE INQUISITION>-dom, so what does that say about their attitude? So f**k 'em. Find other players, travel to other places, just don't sit there and tolerate not being able to field your legal army just because other people can't figure out how to beat it and are threatening to turn you into a pariah because of their personal weakness.

[chillin]

3 Wraitlords?? bring em on..

-

Like I said this was 3rd b4 hidden PF and WL were tougher. I once to 10 lascannons in an army and still didn't kill one WL much less 3. A s/m player once took 2 rather large squads on PF armed termi's got into hth w the WL's and lost 2 squads of termi's with out killing a single WL. In fact I don't remember anyone ever killing one in all the games we played. Gotta remember they're toned WL's down since then, they aren't as tough now. If you could kill em back then good for you, but we were never able to.