Brother Asmanael Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 +++SPOILER ALERT+++ Someone please explain the rather abrupt ending of this book to me like I am a 5 year old mortal. :cuss did the Lion send the main character away and keep others with him? The book made it sound as if they were undesirable. Also what happened to Luther? What happened with his the the Lion's relationship? Why wasn't Luther present at the last battle? I really enjoyed the Horus Heresy books up until this one. I was looking forward to this one most of all since I love the Dark Angels and have played them for some time. Fellow Space Marines help a fellow battle-brother out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Ghost Hendrikson Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Descent of Angels was my most anticipated book in the series, and after reading it, the most dissapointing. I have truly enjoyed reading every novel in the series up until this one. I play Dark Angels, and I have a lot of admiration for the chapter. I share your opinion of the ending, in fact the entire book is highly disjointed in my opinion. The ending was a huge cop-out (forgive spelling on that) on the Author's part. It really felt like a sixth grade writing assignment I had once, had a good start to a story but then forgot about, next thing I know its due tommorrow. Whoops, better go ahead and slap an ending on it and call it good. I can't believe the novel made it past the editors. There is my rant on the book. To anwser your questions, I don't know if the Lion was displeased with those sent back in any way. They were just the ones selected (perhaps at random, perhaps not) to go back and continue the recruitment and training of more Astartes warriors. The conclusion of the Dark Angels Legion can be found in their fourth edition codex. Good summary, probably could have made a good book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1526609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Asmanael Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 Descent of Angels was my most anticipated book in the series, and after reading it, the most dissapointing. I have truly enjoyed reading every novel in the series up until this one. I play Dark Angels, and I have a lot of admiration for the chapter. I share your opinion of the ending, in fact the entire book is highly disjointed in my opinion. The ending was a huge cop-out (forgive spelling on that) on the Author's part. It really felt like a sixth grade writing assignment I had once, had a good start to a story but then forgot about, next thing I know its due tommorrow. Whoops, better go ahead and slap an ending on it and call it good. I can't believe the novel made it past the editors. There is my rant on the book. To anwser your questions, I don't know if the Lion was displeased with those sent back in any way. They were just the ones selected (perhaps at random, perhaps not) to go back and continue the recruitment and training of more Astartes warriors. The conclusion of the Dark Angels Legion can be found in their fourth edition codex. Good summary, probably could have made a good book. Thanks! Your feelings echo my feelings completely. I still need to get the new codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1526649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigger-than-Jesus Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 The thing you have to realise is that they're writing another DA book later on in the series, so keep that in mind. And IMO it was a decent book, if you forget that it's HH that is Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1526918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veahirin Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 In answer to why the main character was sent to Caliban it could just be simply that the author needed a point of view so he could tell the story of "the fallen," and then kept his "brother," with the Lion so he could tell his story. I hope the second (and maybe third) book finishes it all off better. -V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1527020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shadow Guard Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 +++SPOILER ALERT+++ Someone please explain the rather abrupt ending of this book to me like I am a 5 year old mortal. :cuss did the Lion send the main character away and keep others with him? The book made it sound as if they were undesirable. Also what happened to Luther? What happened with his the the Lion's relationship? Why wasn't Luther present at the last battle? I really enjoyed the Horus Heresy books up until this one. I was looking forward to this one most of all since I love the Dark Angels and have played them for some time. Fellow Space Marines help a fellow battle-brother out. Hello Brother Asmanael, There are already a number of threads on this subject which has been discussed in detail However, to answer your question, I feel that the main issue with the Descent of Angels is the expectations held by the majority of the Dark Angels community. The Horus heresy art books and novels are essentially building a detailed foundation for the universe we so love. The HH novel series in particular are delving in to the depths of the back ground of the existing climate, different points of view and the circumstances by which the legions were corrupted. The first three books follow the Warmaster horus from the peak of his magnificent and honourable self through his corruption and fall. In that same series the fates of the loyalists in the first fallen legions is also examined to some extent along with Horus' interaction with Fulgrim. The novel Fulgrim is given over entirely to the description of the Emperor's Children and their slow and tortuous fall in to the hands of Slaanesh. Eisenstein continues detail the fate and escape the loyalist survivors within the traitor legions, as the flight of that frigate is so much part of the legend of Horus Heresy. One cannot therefore blame the dark Angel community for expecting the Descent of Angels to do the same with the Dark Angels Legion. I think the real issue was that most of us expected the book to start at a time point in parallel with the previous books, ie after Horus had been chosen Warmaster but before his fall. In addition I think most of wanted to see a description of what the Lion was doing ( as this has been hardly touched on by any of the previous novels or artbooks) during the heresy, the fall of caliban and clear vindication once and for all that our primarch was never simply sitting on the sidelines waiting to see what happened with Horus (as generally and derisivel stated by other chapters) Here in lies the problem as the book, very usefully and cleverly starts off long before the Great Crusade reaches Caliban. While many have stated that the book has nothing to do with the Horus Heresy, they are missing the point that series is building the backgorund foundation for our universe. For the dark Angels, that means delving in to the dark distant past whe the lion led the Calibanite knights in their world wide crusade to wipe out the chaos beasts. The book covers a much larger time spane than any other HH novel, hence some discontinuity is to be expected. The way the book ended, with more questions than answers, leaves me in no doubt that there will be another book, either for the DA or a combined one that details the DA legions travails during the heresy. Whether that book too leaves as many questions as it has answers can only be seen in the future. So, all in all, I love the detail that has been lavished on the background of the Dark Angels legion prior to the arrival of the emperor, which is significantly more than that given to any other legion in the HH novels. oes the latter part seema little rushed, i agree it does. The character development of Luther in the latter half could have been better handled. But overall, I am more than happy to have had that book pass through my hands in to my collection on to my book shelves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1527123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 It is impossible to tell the whole of any one Legions involvement in the HH in a single book. I can remember reading Horus Rising, and thinking, "No! You can't mention Davin and then give us a Cliffhanger like that!!! YOU EVIL :P !!!" Unfortunatly, I will agree with you the end of DoA is appallingly executed, even if the story is actually quite good. I think you need to view this as the prologue for the Dark Angels fall, and not as a book on its own. There will be more, rest assured of that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1527124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Ghost Hendrikson Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I agree with the sentiments of the last couple of posts. While my opinions of the book are not very high, I am still happy to have it in my collection. I enjoyed reading all the historical information about my Legion and Chapter. I feel it probably helped inflame my expectations as I read deeper into the book, not to mention my eventual disdain for the ending. I would love to see another book either focusing or involving the DA in the continuing HH series. Because the book opened many more new questions then they actually anwsered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1527223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I'm not certain, but having read the book, I think there was supposed to be some tacit implication that the Lion was aware of Luther's actions with regards to the vessel aboard his flagship that was in actuality a rather large bomb. How he could possibly know this I don't know; he is a primarch after all, and most of them have some measure of psychic capability...maybe he sensed it from Zahariel or something... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1528099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulkan's wrath Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 descent of angels was the worst book in the hh series. it didnt really relate at all to the heresy, it was before it happened. following fulgrim, which was in my opinion, the best book in the series, i was also greatly anticipating what waould happen. sadly, they went wwwaaaayyyy back before any of the pivotal events that had occurred in the last book were even started! i love the dark angels, but this doesnt tell much about their history, more just about a knightly order. descent of angels= worst book in horus heresy series Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1529289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulkan's wrath Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 they should make like 20 books, each based on one legion. Then through the book, describe what they did befor the heresy and what they did during the heresy instead of giving this descent of angels bull crap! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1529293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetEzekial Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 One person already said it well enough. But it bears repeating. One legion's story (any legion) cannot be told in one short book! Note the color bands at the top of of the spine on all the books. There will be more to come! Do not judge one book, one story, based off of a partial telling of it. Wait till the rest is out, then judge it based on being a piece, instead of trying to view it as the only piece. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1529336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzza Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 ----Spoilers in post----------------- I personally liked the book, it gave a good background of how the DA came to be and why they are like they are. To answer the question of why certain individuals got sent back, I admit it's not the most obvious thing and you have to look for the clues in the book. Basically though the lion talks alot in the book, for example when he's talking to the main character at the top of the tower, about how he likes to start a fresh, how the past only holds you back and how he's only interested in the future. Everyone he sent back were people he had close connections with, ie his past. They are also the more free thinking people as well, as shown by Luthers ability to act without consulting the lion, such as dealing with the bomb on the shuttle, and the main characters questioning of their actions on the planet at the end. The lion wants a fresh start with people that will follow him no questions asked. I know I've not explained it very well but I hope you get the idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1530569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feor Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Actually what I took away from it was that the Lion was a bit of an egomaniac. Basically, anyone who'd done anything the Lion couldn't, or who had done something without checking with the Lion, was sent back to Caliban. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1530833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I totally agree with that. He did not want to share the limelight, not that they could ever measure up to him but still they were remarcable in thier own ways. I actually felt for Luthor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1530946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Hunter Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 It was because Johnson was being jealous of the others because they were the only ones that could disarm the bomb and for once he felt useless. Zahariel is an amazing character but the Book just totally wipes out any chance of him ever being involved in more Chaos Crunching violence so he also Falls. If you look on the rant about the horus heresy series we think that he may be cypher. Zahariel should come back later in the series later on. I personally hated the book Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1534034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feor Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I don't know if Zahariel will Fall, to be honest, Descent of Angels, in my mind, opened up the question again of "which side really fell?" Since the "emperor botherers" like Zahariel got sent back to Caliban, and the ones who'd been against the Emperor initially (his "brother") stayed with the fleet. I think it'd be interesting if the marines on the planet had stayed loyal, while The Lion and company actually fell to Chaos (or at least away from the Emperor) without telling the rank and file marines. So when they returned to the planet, the "Traitors" and the Fleet fight, the high Command of the Fleet (the ones who'd actually turned from the Emperor) are killed in action, the rank and file evacuate to the ships, and the planet goes blewy, with the "Fallen" being whisked away by Chaos, some actually turning to Chaos at that point out of taint/madness/gratitude or just go about their way as a renegade without falling to Chaos (as a number of the Fallen do) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1535696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Librarian Zweig Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 You know the more that I think about this book, the more I understand why it was put into the series. With certain revelations from Legion, you see how and why this book is truely about the space marines and the horus heresy. Damn GW for their silliness and sneakiness, damn them! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1535742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
moranimal Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Well, DoA didn't mention Astellan, from AoD. He too will be sent back to Caliban at some point (if he hasn't already). As I remember, he claimed that all the Terra DA SMs were sent back to Caliban by the Lion El'Johnson, while only those raised from Caliban remained with the fleet. Obviously sending Zahariel back contradicts that somewhat, although the incident with the shuttle and Luther probably tainted him too far in the Lion's eyes. So the second part of the story will have to have Astellan and Zahariel meet at some point I would think, or at least interact in some way. With the eventual destruction of Caliban, they will then be cast through time and space. Astellan of course becomes the center point of AoD, but what about Zahariel? Where will he end up? It would seem in the 41 millennium as "Cypher" is a likely and popular choice candidate, but we shall have to see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1536031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 That would be interestuing to see if Astellan is in the next book.. Finally it will shut up the DA players who doubted his story in AOD. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1536287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shadow Guard Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 That would be interestuing to see if Astellan is in the next book.. Finally it will shut up the DA players who doubted his story in AOD. Or it will show those who believed his story the error of their ways.... before they get marched off to chamber 42!!! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1536363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feor Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Well, DoA didn't mention Astellan, from AoD. He too will be sent back to Caliban at some point (if he hasn't already). As I remember, he claimed that all the Terra DA SMs were sent back to Caliban by the Lion El'Johnson, while only those raised from Caliban remained with the fleet. Obviously sending Zahariel back contradicts that somewhat, although the incident with the shuttle and Luther probably tainted him too far in the Lion's eyes. So the second part of the story will have to have Astellan and Zahariel meet at some point I would think, or at least interact in some way. With the eventual destruction of Caliban, they will then be cast through time and space. Astellan of course becomes the center point of AoD, but what about Zahariel? Where will he end up? It would seem in the 41 millennium as "Cypher" is a likely and popular choice candidate, but we shall have to see. Never read Angel of Darkness (before I came around the hobby, sadly) but if he was thrown through space and time, and he hasn't been sent back to Caliban... were back to the "Who were the real traitors?" question. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1536721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Oh there will be more from our Brothers on Caliban, of that we can be sure. I would second Beefs calls for a DoA style book for the Space Wolves, as it is for some Legions a crucial part of their development and can offer some explanation for their behavior in the 41st Millenium. For the Dark Angels, I personally feel that to pick up the story just before or even during the heresy would have been to do their fluff a disservice. Also, it means we'll shell out £6.99 extra. <_< Several times over... Oh well, at least it's good fiction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1537111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Issachar Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Normally wouldn't raise such an old thread, but I figured it was better than starting a new one on the same topic. I just finished Descent of Angels. I have played Dark Angels for over 15 years, amassing a force of over 700 Dark Angel models. (not including vehicles) I've always been a big fan of their legend, iconography and backstory. The portrayal of the Dark Angels in Scanlon's novel (particularly the Lion, Luther, Zahariel and his friends) was so weak and miserable that I am now considering stripping down all of my models and cutting off the Dark Angels iconography. The only characters in the whole book I considered worthwhile were the knight Sir Amadis, and the Watchers in the Dark Is Angels of Darkness any better? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1695307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
saberas Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Having read all the HH books at this point you can pretty much bank on getting a great book from Abnett (Legion was awesome), McNeil tends to put out a good book and I even liked James Swallow with flight of Eisenstein. Descent of Angels was the first book where I realized that you have to adjust expectations based on author. Descent of Angels was to me, just a very poor work of fiction (and the bar is kind of low on these books to start with). I know that there may be a continuation to this book at some point in the future, but I just can't forgive this book for being so crappy on that fact. Every book in this series is just a part of a larger story arc yet some authors manage to tie their books together in a way that doesn't make you feel like your book is missing about 100 pages. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/132516-descent-of-angels/#findComment-1695373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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