Alpha Legion ?

[sexiest_hero]

So after reading the new book and and some of the fluff i Have questions. Is the alpha leigon loyal or disloyal

 

Did they split down the middle do they work for the Cabal now? Is thier Primarch(s) alive or dead?

 

should i use them with the Sm codex or Chaos???

[Cornelias]

sssshhh some people might not have read the book yet :)

 

but in answer to one of your questions i'd use the space marine codex :)

[Eetion]

SPOILERS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Both, they fought against the Imperium, yet they dont technicly worship chaos.

As I see it you can acurately portray them with either dex.

[teh_perfesser]

you can acurately portray them with neither dex.

Fixed that. Missing an 'n' in there. Or not. ;)

[Kingin]

Alpha Legion I did research on them because I did them for a long time.

The Alpha Legion is in the Chaos side although they do not use THAT much daemons they could and they have cults around. They went with Horus in the fight, and they cults kinda do some things, but I classify them as being Chaos and you can somewhat use the new dex, although you can't use cult squads like last ed dex, you can have marines and stuff.

[DeathsHead]

I'm really hoping that people aren't going to start taking Abnett's book as canonical. His plot twists seem like an inorganic, totally arbitrary addition on his part.

 

If it DOES become canonical, I imagine a lot of the people who've been playing Night Lords for a while are going to feel frustrated when people start thinking of their Chaos Marines as some sort of misunderstood crusaders against Chaos.

[Kingin]

Although some of the Legions maybe Night Lords and maybe one other just turned against the Emperor because they find out that he was no god, and will try to stop people from Worshiping him and stuff, I think some people do misunderstand Chaos its not a force thats evil, Chaos by defanition if I remember corcetly it's without Order and dis obeys the Laws, like Laws of Viscikes

sorry If I can't spell

[Lay]

If it DOES become canonical, I imagine a lot of the people who've been playing Night Lords for a while are going to feel frustrated when people start thinking of their Chaos Marines as some sort of misunderstood crusaders against Chaos.

You're still better off than some AL players.

How am I going to taunt loyalists without taunting myself now?? D:<

[Celestial Dragon King]

Well they could be against the imperium without joining chaos. It's their own motives and not because they want the universe to be over come with chaos.

 

As far as canon it's had to say what is cannon. We get a lot more fluff from Black Library than we do any other source. WD has little to none nowadays, a codex about once ever 5 years or more. Where else is it?

[Lol Craven]

Lets think some things through regarding what we saw in Legion.

 

Alpharius and Omegon are presented with the concept that either they fight against Horus, the Imperium wins, and eventually slides into a situation where Chaos becomes ascendant. Or, they side with Horus, allow him to win and then wait for Horus own guilt to cause the "immolation of the Imperium" and Chaos being exstinguished from the galaxy.

 

Its obvious to me that something else is yet to happen in Heresy series before the Alpha Legion fall into step with their current format.

 

At this point in time, they are Chaotic, through and through. They set up cults, wipe out whole chapters and do generally nasty <DELETED BY THE INQUISITION> to people left right and centre. They cannot still be loyalists. They would only have sided with Horus to allow him to win. Horus is now dead, yet 10000 years later they are still fighting on his side, and for what exactly? Are you telling me they honestly believe Abaddon is going to feel guilty and wipe out the galaxy if he kills the Emperor? I dont think so some how.

 

I can only speculate on what is yet to happen. Index Astartes articles speculate that Guilliman kills Alpharius post Siege of Terra. So what of Omegon? Who is to say it was even one of them he killed. I suspect that soemwhere along the line the legion splits, those who are pro-Emperor and want to side with Horus as a "lesser evil", and those who side with Horus through a desire to instigate a true Chaos rule, for their own selfish reasons.

 

Whatever happens I hope its something. If its just left that the AL are fighting for Chaos but against it in modern fluff it will be totally rubbish, make no sense, and piss off alot of AL players who have built their armies around long standing and Chaotic fluff.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I doubt the Night Lords will require such concern. Lord of Night pretty well established that while they may not have started out at a Chaos-worshipping Legion, they certainly ended up that way. -_-

[DeathsHead]

Yeah.... actually that was a typo. I meant Alpha Legion reduced to misunderstood crusaders against Chaos, not Night Lords.

[Captain Idaho]

another point to remember is that fluff has always maintained that the Primarchs were dubed by Chaos. in 2nd edition Codex Chaos it mentions that Angron thought he alone could save the universe etc. it is possible that the Alpha Legion sided with Chaos in ignorance, thinking they could maintain their values and objectives, but over time descend into Chaos worshippers/pawns. precendent would be the radical Inquisitors or Relictors.

 

as for the Battle between Guilliman and Alpharius; the source of this info is debateable, from a heretic inquisitor, so odds are that it wasnt the way the IA Alpha Legion portray. if it even happened at all!

[Senseilord Ashahara]

More unanswerable questions are posed by Legion than information given (which I feel is fitting for the Alpha Legion) - We just get philisophical questions

 

The Alpha Legion side with Horus, effectively to whipe out humanity and thus save the galaxy from Chaos and complete the Emperor's victory.

Alpharus and Omegron know this, as do a couple of the company commanders. What is the opperational knowlege of the 'basic' trooper? Are they all in on the secret or do they side with Chaos because of their orders ? If the latter then the Alpha Legions marines are just as chaotic as the Black Legion et al.

 

Their aim, which is ,effectively, to kill mankind, is not too far skewed by the death of Horus. Plan A was Horus's rampage across the galaxy. Plan B? we'll have to orchestrate it ourselves to (loyalist) complete the Emp's victory or (rebel) clean away the stain of the unworthy herd of cattle worshiping a corpse and living in the ruins of what the Alpha Legion and their brother legions carved out for them.

 

Having two primarchs is intresting in itself in that the legion cannot be a simple cult of personality as with the other legions but it also means that the legion is likely to split. Omegron is noted as much more hotheaded than Alpharus.

 

And at the end of it all, 10,000 years is along time to get bitter and more than a little twisted.

[Beef]

Although some of the Legions maybe Night Lords and maybe one other just turned against the Emperor because they find out that he was no god, and will try to stop people from Worshiping him and stuff,

 

I know you meant alpha legion. However all the Primarchs and Legions knew and still do that the EMP was not a God. so thats makes no sence.

 

Also if a legion calls apon Demons i think you can vcatogorically say they are traitors. Lets not be deluded into thinking they are fighting for the EMP any longer or the imperiam of man.

[Zephaniah the Deceived]

Also if a legion calls upon Demons i think you can categorically say they are traitors. Lets not be deluded into thinking they are fighting for the EMP any longer or the imperium of man.

 

Just because someone summons daemons doesn't mean they can't still be loyal to the Emperor. It sounds a bit counter intuitive but what about the radical Inquisitors who regularly summon and bind daemons to make daemonhosts? They're still loyal to the Emperor but they think that it is acceptable to use Chaos in order to fight Chaos.

 

My own personal view of the Alpha Legion today is that Alphariuses emphasis on the initiative of his lower commanders has led to a great fragmenting of the Alpha Legion. There are some parts that follow Chaos, there are some that serve the Cabal in destroying the Emperor, others that want to destroy him in order that he can be reincarnated (if you believe the Star Child thing is canonical). There would be some that really were loyal to the Imperium, but are now too horrified by what it has become to support it anymore, and so now try to destroy it so something better can be built in it's place. Maybe there are some that see the Imperium of Man as being dominated too much by Roboute Guilleman (the majority of new Chapters are based on his gene-seed and almost all follow his Codex Astrates) who personally insulted Alpharius and his tactics.

 

Because the Alpha Legion operates in secret, spread out across the Imperium of man and with little focus on a completely rigid chain of command (lower down commanders have a lot more independence) all of these different motives, as well as many more, can co-exist although maybe different factions of the Alpha Legion do fight with each other sometimes.

 

I should note that this view is based more on my thinking it's awesome then it being fully supported by material published about the Alpha Legion.

[Captain Idaho]

Just because someone summons daemons doesn't mean they can't still be loyal to the Emperor. It sounds a bit counter intuitive but what about the radical Inquisitors who regularly summon and bind daemons to make daemonhosts? They're still loyal to the Emperor but they think that it is acceptable to use Chaos in order to fight Chaos.

 

but all those "loyal" inquisitors eventually fall to Chaos, no matter how slow the process may be or the initial intentions they have. so using Chaos Daemons like that are indicators of Chaos worship sooner or later.

 

the only exception to this really is the Space Wolves, who because of the Wolfen gene, are highly resistant to the effects of Chaos (dont know how that works, but thats what the fluff says! )

 

so for this reason, i firmly believe that the Alpha legion have turned into bitter Chaos pawns at best, fully fledged worshippers at worst. sure there may be the odd warrior who was dragged into the whole thing with his comrades and is now stuch in a situation he doesnt want to be in but is powerless to do anything about, but that would be few and far between.

 

heres a thought i come up with the other day; Alpharius Omegon are very similar to Guilliman in that both are staunchly convinced of their own tactical doctrine and more importantly, both like to be in full control of all situations they are involved in. little ironic dont you think?

[the jeske]

but AL does not summon demons . At least not the way other legions do . Even in the old dex rules the only units that could do that were cultists . Even if AL had fallen to chaos[also wanting to kill your own race can hardly be called loyalist] they would have huge problems with contacting their demonic allias on daily basis , because they work outside of the eye or storm .

[Captain Idaho]

but they have a far greater time doing it than Imperial Fists or Iron Hands :)

[keije]

So does anyone else finds it annoying that everything except AL rules portrays them as Chaos? It is only in the fluff of the (old now) codex that they are said to be just out for themselves, going around fighting the greatest challenges and have nothing to do with Chaos itself. Everything else, other codex's fluff/novels/PC games/etc. portrays them as outright Chaos legion.

 

Having said all that, the book seem to be filled with a little bit too much of Just As Planned™ for my liking. So my conclusion is that they got duped by Tzeentch cult with promises of conquering Chaos into worshiping Chaos for real.

[Feor]

I go with the "trying to bring Chaos down from within" angle, myself.

 

They know that teh only way to completely destroy chaos, is to let it win, and then let humanity destroy itself, taking Chaos with them. (to quote the Primarch Himself: "Victory is defeat.")

 

With the quick way of accomplishing the above goal down the tubes, the Alpha Legions decides they'll have to help the Galaxy fall to Chaos the hard way, while organizing things so that humanity will wipe itself out after Chaos takes over. It's probably not a perfect plan, but it's not like they can just roll up to Terra at this point and go "Hey, our bad."

 

 

Edit: OooOOooo. Nasty idea. Alpha Legion always seemed to me like the kind of group that would have have plan A, followed by Plans B through ZZX2. :) One thing they can almost cerainly see is that if Humanity does fall to Chaos overall, they're alot less likley to wipe themselves out without Horus in Command, so they'd probably set up an alternate means of ensuring humanity went blewy. Maybe a small pre-stone age race at the edge of the Galaxy, with an remarkable resistance to Chaos. Just protect them with a warp storm for a few millenia, let them start developing some fancier tech, and start expanding.

 

Hey, beats the "The C'Tan/Old Ones did it!" theory that usually follows the fish heads around.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I think the book leaves it open to do anything you want. A split loyal/unloyal (to the emp)? Loyal and trying to complete the depressing "mission"? Part turn to chaos, part does not? All seduced to chaos and try ensure and maintain the status quo?

 

I personally like the angle of trying to complete the mission? With maybe a shift of really disliking how the Imperium has turned out after 10k years. But not using daemons. Yes to using all kinds of operatives from highly skilled loyals to hate mongering cultists. (Man I wish I could use the 3.5 ruleset...really works with this scenario with not allowing SM's to summon).

 

In short, I don't think there is a wrong answer. Some nice fluff should be able to backup any scenario.

I was hard charging to do Red Corsairs but now I'm being turned to my original chaos love because of this damnable book!

[Purge The Weak]

I read the book a few days ago, I would say the alpha legion would definitely follow Space marine squads rather then chaos, but the lost and damned rules always seemed to proper justify them the best in my eyes. (or at least the old ones in eye of terror)

 

The question I wonder though is if the ultramarine primarch killed one of the twins. Either omegan or alpharuis, or maybe neither of them at all, maybe it was just another marine taking the role of alpharuis.

 

(spellingz lolz)

[Ju'kosian]

The novel series is not finished.. maybe later on, they choose chaos completly...

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

The novel series is not finished.. maybe later on, they choose chaos completly...

 

I agree. Just because Legion portrays them one way in M30 doesn't mean that by M40 and the demise of half their Primarch(s) they don't fall completely as per Night Lords. The timeline for the Codex doesn't match the timeline for the HH novels, and 10,000 years is a long time to have a hate-on. ;)