Land Raiders

[Brother Asmodius]

Hello everyone

I dont have much experience with land raiders (rhinos being my prefered ride) and i have a few questions for you.

1. Are land raiders worth taking if you aren't transporting termies?

2. Does anyone field multiple land raiders in their army?

3. What upgrades do you normally give your land raider(s)?

4. Is tank shocking an enemy unit (which convieniantly puts them in a nice little line), disembarking, and firing away with a doom siren a viable tactic?

5. Does getting an unharmed 240-250 point unit (like berzerkers) into combat justify the 220 point price tag of the land raider?

 

Any advice on the use of land raiders would be greatly appriciated as they are one of the few chaos units i havent experimented with. Thank you for your time.

[Tfcdogbert]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=101214 This tacita applies to GK land raiders, but is useful for all armies with them.

[Brother Asmodius]

I finished reading Silent Requiem's tactica earlier (excellent tactica article for any player) but i was more concerned with applying these things to chaos and im not sure if it would work considering that CSM and Berzerkers are definitely not GKs.

Im not sure if im much of a water player but the tactica got me interested in trying out land raiders so im interested to see what everyone thinks about the use of Chaos Land Raiders.

[Tfcdogbert]

If i had the models and the monely id get in on the action, a doom sieren would be lethal with the incinerator trick, or a sorc with wind of chaos for the lining up tactic, the fact that our raiders are 25 pts cheaper than GK ones, Noise marines are certainly a nice CC and close range unit, but a squad of termies with a heavy flamer is equally viable.

 

However, they are very worthwhile taking, AV 14 is tough and if you use it as a mobile bunker you are using it well, they will shoot it and not your rhinos, its a huge psychalogical threat.

[Sception]

Currently - they are very cool. But not very good - their points being significantly higher then they should be. They're a pretty decent transport, or a so-so battle tank. They really can't do both at the same time, but they cost too many points to justify doing just one or the other. They're somewhat versatile, and somewhat resiliant, but somewhat only gets you so far.

 

Again, though, they are cool, and look great, and feel awesome, and I certainly would consider fielding them even if their rules aren't so hot.

 

 

They may be worth re-examining when the 5e rules are released. If rumors are to be believed they'll be even more restricted in terms of firing their guns on the move, but they'll also be considerable more durable, and that may be enough to make them competitive. Probably not, but possibly.

[Tokunator]

I actually fielded mine a lot in the last few weeks in our campaign, even in 1500 points games. Somehow, players tend to throw everything but the kitchen sink at it and it can take it.

 

I usually field one with possession and havoc launcher, either slaying tanks or just laying the smacketh down with all of these Strength 5 shots. As I run an Undivided force, I have a lot of Infantry and the Land Raider helps me by drawing fire.

[Tfcdogbert]

Land raiders have 5 weaknesses, if you see theese things, steer clear of their fire lanes.

 

Railguns (pain in the arse)

Lance weapons

Melta weapons

Monstrous creatures

Rending under certain conditions

 

So dont take them against tau, against eldar be wary, getting into melta effective range is tricky, monstrous creatures dont tend to be fast, do worry about squads of genestealers, but against nids and nidzilla they arent a great idea, better spent on other things.

 

(No the list isnt exhaustive, i just came up with it :), but its a good short guide to the major threats.)

 

Lascannons arent that much of a threat really, 5's to glance.

[DuskRaider]

Yeah, I field mine every now and then... it hasn't been destroyed yet. Like dogbert said, watch out for railguns.

[Sons of Horus]

raiders are great. i use 4 in my army. i suggest adding extra armour unless your fighting something that will disregard it. :)

[the jeske]

Lascannons arent that much of a threat really, 5's to glance.

and a gunline lists is going to have 5/6 and probably 4/6 AC[you missed those in the rending section] . hey even chaos has a decent chance to do something to a raider with 4 oblits , 2x3 termis combis and sometimes a raptors anti tank unit .Also on melta and range . Its tough to get in to range when you footslog [not a good thing to do] in a mecha army or in a drop pod army its totaly different . In fact against a drop pod army you cant run away from the pods [and I have seen more then a few sm lists with 2 melta+combi melta drop pod units alonge single dread ones] .

[Tfcdogbert]

Or even non gunline lists (mine has 5 and isnt) but however its still pretty unlikely to take it down in one turn of shooting, and dont forget that AC's are only 24 inch range and deep striking terminators and drop pods wont arrive until turn 3? (dont know the DS rules as i dont deep strike :P).

 

But if all the anti tank is shooting at the raider then it isnt shooting at everything else, hence being a big, tough, distraction.

 

To really use raiders you need to be careful about line of sight, as in that tacita, its allways good to take a pair as well, like in your list with the 2 being used for the bezerkers? with those 2 those rhinos are going to be pretty much unscathed.

[Brother Asmodius]

Well the funny thing is that where i play there are no gunline SM lists, no drop pod SM lists, little to no railguns (i have no idea why). However we have bright lances, genestealers, and assault cannons in abundance. It looks like each assault cannon has near a 25% chance of immobilising or destroying my raider which is not good considering the 2 or 3 deathwing armies that have shown up. And if the rhinos i would have accompanying my raiders would be virtually ignored, would it be better to have my harder hitting troops in rhinos and use the raiders as distractions (still have assault troops in them, just not your best)?

[Kalrik]

I finished reading Silent Requiem's tactica earlier (excellent tactica article for any player) but i was more concerned with applying these things to chaos and im not sure if it would work considering that CSM and Berzerkers are definitely not GKs.

Im not sure if im much of a water player but the tactica got me interested in trying out land raiders so im interested to see what everyone thinks about the use of Chaos Land Raiders.

 

I actually built my entire Thousand Son's Playing style and Tactics around SR's tactica (then tweaked it)

 

I did end up winning my first tournament with them (flawlessly too)

 

Tsons lend themselves to the tactica pretty well.

 

My first opponent was Tau, and my raiders, even with the brunt of their guns did stand pretty well, (it was a 2k tournament so I had 2)

 

whats nice is they draw a LOT of firepower that you wouldn't want on your troops,

 

To answer your question this is how a chaos Raider should be outfitted:

 

Daemonic possession.

 

Thats all... yes, BS3 blows, but all the raiders weapons are twin linked... its a gamble, but your raider having the abilty to do what it is meant to do every turn, helps.

 

So far that Army has been undefeated...

 

So it works FANTASTICALLY for chaos, in the right configs, I highly recommend it to anyone =) especially when 5th rolls around.

[darth_giles]

Hello everyone

I dont have much experience with land raiders (rhinos being my prefered ride) and i have a few questions for you.

1. Are land raiders worth taking if you aren't transporting termies?

Sometimes. Mostly depends on how you use them.

2. Does anyone field multiple land raiders in their army?

I've never consistently seen more than one LR in any army but deathwing. I've seen a few BT lists with an LR and LRC, but they rarely do very well.

3. What upgrades do you normally give your land raider(s)?

Smoke, and sometimes Dozer Blades, although said blades are nigh-impossible to model. Pintle CBs and Havoc Launchers can make an LR into a pretty nasty gun platform, but I rarely have enough points for it.

4. Is tank shocking an enemy unit (which convieniantly puts them in a nice little line), disembarking, and firing away with a doom siren a viable tactic?

Hm... tough question. My initial response is "No, because your dismount points will be blocked," but that might not always be the case. And the LR's rear armor is decently tough, unlike a Rhino's. I'm gonna give a definite situational "maybe."

5. Does getting an unharmed 240-250 point unit (like berzerkers) into combat justify the 220 point price tag of the land raider?

Does your LR do anything else, like tank hunting or mowing down infantry with HBs, pintle CBs, and a Havok Launcher?

Any advice on the use of land raiders would be greatly appriciated as they are one of the few chaos units i havent experimented with. Thank you for your time.

They're not bad. Not the most versatile, but definitely not bad. The hardest part is figuring out exactly how to use them, and protecting them from some of the IG IA tank hunting stuff that should never see the table but seems to with frightening regularity now that the Armored Company list is tournament legal.

[Roultox]

Chaos advantages above the other armies that can take Land Raiders.

 

-Costs 30 points less.

-Can add another twin-linked heavy weapon, great for infantry and light vehicles.

-Nearly every unit in chaos can take advantage of the flexibility of a raider that most of chaos can fight well in range and melee, even rapid fire, more so for the specialists for melee and short range shooting.

-Various vehicles can benefit from a raider, to controlling a plasma cannon raging dreadnoughts friendly fire fury, to a defiler's hull down blocking while able to shoot around the raider, or tank shock+ord a unit bundled up together, to even just getting in the way to allow a big line of troops advance where most units in chaos have difficulty doing so against certain foes.

-Can have 6 raiders in a 2k army if you use 3 man termi units with reapers, 3 in heavy, 2 cheap troops and 1 cheap hq, no other army can have that in 2k.(some havoc launchers in there too)

 

Thats all I can really add that isnt in some of the tactica, I wont bother adding more because I'm tired. Some other time!

[BrainFireBob]

Their effectiveness depends on the opponent's army comp. Against non-gunlines, they work well, if you're not too aggressive with them.

 

I have a couple, and they're fun. They make a decent transport, but don't shoot it forward. Inch it and fire every turn, then maybe fire it 12" forward for a disembark and charge.

 

Really, the key is to not be aggressive. Their armor will keep them alive then.

 

I dominated a game against guard with one recently- once I'd take out his two Russes, since it was within his Bassie's indirect fire range. It *felt* broken, because it was so effective.

 

LRs are a 1 or 3 item, IMHO. No-one kits enough to take out three, and one leaves enough points to buy other items. Two isn't quite enough.