Scouts Pre-Heresy

[csblackhawk]

A question i'd like answered if anyone can.

 

Did scouts exist during before the Heresy, in a similar way to they do know? or we're neophytes trained in other ways?

[Garviel]

In the HH books, Loken mentions the Novitiate Auxilia, from where the replacements were select. It also mentions groups of lightly equipped fully-grown Space Marines acting as scouts.

 

Maybe the Astartes were fulfilling the Scouts role too. :D

[Steel Father Augustus]

In legion, Alpharius refers to Omegon wearing the black power armour of the scouts, so i assume that Asartes filled the scout roles

 

S.F.Aug

[utilityzero]

legion also mentions several marines wearing mail shirts or something like carapace armor, so i think that it's possible, but the legions were all independent units, so maybe they didn't all do things the same way. chaos marines use marines in power armor as infiltrators, so it's possible that it was normal to do that pre-heresy.

[HellChyld]

in the Art books they have several pics of recon squads which show pics of everything from full grown marines in power armor to the lighter carapace armour so I would say which ever you decide

[jlmb_123]

In Fulgrim, casualties are replaced form the Novitiates and the Scout Auxilia. Maybe there's only so much power-armour to go around, and the Scouts were initiated Astartes waiting for armour to becopme available. that way, they'd be plying an honour filled role in the Company, rather than a servile, educational one.

[Beef]

Well if armour was the issue the SW must hae been quite well of as our scout squads (recon) had full power armour, but unfortunatly only had las rifles ( i pray that i am mistaking the snipers for lasrifles)

[jlmb_123]

I'd imagine recon would be a tactical position, and Scouts an actual troop type.

[brother Hastatus]

I think it changes with each legion. I'd say you could make scouts if you want, or use normal PA armour as scout armour. No one would question the fluff side of it, whatever you do. Although if you chose to do SMs acting as scouts you'd have to make it obvious that they were scouts, not normal tactical marines.

[Justicar Crucius]

In Fulgrim, they mention auxiliary scouts being taught to be Emperor's Children

[Dam13n]

My impression was that more experienced brethren were used as actual scouts in scout armour

while most neophytes were sent from the legions home planet complete with full power armour.

 

Rather similar to the system still in place with the Space Wolves, Wolf Scouts being veterans who

are overly independent, while the proportionately juvenile blood claws are fielded as assault troops

in power armour.

 

It is a point to remember that the Adeptus Mechanicus still had a lot of the knowledge that has

subsequently been lost. They could have concievably churned out larger numbers than they do in the

41st millenium. Plus many of the crusade era armour patterns used "time and resource sparing"

methods of construction, hence the studded pads and exposed cabling. This would all mean that

the quantities of Astartes Power Armour being produced should have easily kept up with the demand.

 

I'm sure there was some significant deviation between the legions however. I just can't see an Iron

Warrior accepting anything less that the heaviest armour he can get his hands on, while the Death

Guard would probably frown on something so subtle as infiltrating scouts.

 

Plus the fact that some legions used their neophytes as scouts might suggest that they thought of them

as more expendable than fully trained initiates and hence had to truly earn their power armour by being

sent into hostile zones in small infiltrating squads with "weaker" armour. This fits with the Emperor's

Children, who wouldn't want anything less than the best graduating to full battle brother.

 

The fact is we don't know, there hasn't been any conclusive documentation concerning true neophytes

during the heresy, I'm sure they're there but they haven't been singled out from their brethren.

 

The remark concerning Omegon wearing the black armour of the scouts "could" refer to what we

currently know as "Scout Armour" or it could simply mean that the "scouts" of the Alpha Legion wore

black power armour, so they would "disappear into the shadows"... It's all fairly ambiguous...

 

laterz...

[Weiss]

In legion, Alpharius refers to Omegon wearing the black power armour of the scouts, so i assume that Asartes filled the scout roles

 

S.F.Aug

 

He was the leader of the "stealth squad". I'm not sure that was necessarily a scout unit...

[Perry]

dont forget that the legions where not weighted down by the codex astrates back then, they where alot more flexble

 

i can imagin many specialist units a fully trained battle brother could be a member off, wearing scout armour might be required for a peticular role

[Pig Of Sparta]

I agree that pre-heresy scouts would have been full battle brothers wearing full or part power armour.

 

I think the contempary scouts result from the rules laid down in the Codex Astartes about using increased periods of training to ensure the purity and stability of the geneseed and implants that neophytes recieve, as well as the suitability of the neophytes themselves for the tasks ahead of them. I seem to remeber reading something like this in one of the index astartes books. Prior to the Heresy many legions were using flash cloning techniques to rush through the now quite protracted process of creating a space marine so as to keep the numbers of front line troops as high as possible, and this was causing flaws to become evident in some of legions geneseed.

[shadelance]

It depends on the legion i would assume. After all even in the current times certain chapter's scout companies are actually veterans who are loners rather than new recruits being scouts, like the Space Wolves. Blood Claws are the new recruits and scouts are veteran marines who excel at covert ops. And the Space Wolves are very set on traditional ways, they were the most advert to the Codex Astartes, so its very possible that many of the early marine legions had the same tradition but changed it after the Heresy to adhere to Robutes'(sp?) codices.

[Spacefrisian]

Well if armour was the issue the SW must hae been quite well of as our scout squads (recon) had full power armour, but unfortunatly only had las rifles ( i pray that i am mistaking the snipers for lasrifles)

 

No you are not mistaken, but don't worry 1000 sons preheresy assault marines had lasguns as well (thats even more stupid if you ask me).

[ginger gobbo]

look in the heresy picture book the collected visions there are pics in there

[BrianBlessed]

look in the heresy picture book the collected visions there are pics in there

 

Yeah there are scouts in the collected visions book. The recon squads do seem to be more prevalent though.

 

About the recon squads has anyone noticed how "basic human" the marines appear and the power armour is much thinner. There is a chance that these recons are young spacemarines not quite genetic supermen yet.

 

I share SHADELANCES's opinion that scouts were a specialised role like in the Space Wolves, and young initiates were lucky enough to be given power armour as soon as they entered active service.

 

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