Does every squad need a rhino?

[Corrupted]

So the more games I play with this new codex the more I like Plague Marines. I started with three squads of eight in rhinos and have since bumped it up to three squads of ten, but I still want more. I'm trying to figure out the most efficient way to bolster my numbers and I don't think I want to spend any more points on rhinos. Has anyone had success with using a mix of foot sloggers and mechanized infantry?

I was think about three eight man squads in rhinos and two eight man squads walking it. The rhino squads would have fist champs and melta guns. The walking squads would have no champs, to save points, and plasma guns. The other option I was kicking around was dropping extra armor, but that kinda scares the crap out of me. Any thoughs?

[Hellios]

Play missions where you have to hold a bunker and they have to take it :confused: afterward inform your opponent it is being held by a 20 strong unit of Plague marines :<

[Corrupted]

Lol, I like your thought process, but its a bit too situational to build a list around.

[jamjar]

Wont that mean your plague marines come in waves, making it a lot easier to deal with them? Instead of overwhelming them all at once you'll get taken apart if ya dont last. Or ya may be able to tie up the enemy for long enough for ya plague marines to hit.

 

I rarely bother with extra armour myself, unless its on a land raider. My reasoning being, only if my rhino takes a glance on a 3 does it do anything. As if you take a penetrating hit you jump out anyway, so 15 points for something that will only help me on one out of 6 glancing hits doesent seem worth it. Feels like too much of a point sink in my opinion, also if ya rhino creep it doesent matter that much. i'd rather use the points somewhere else.

 

but then again everyone i know tells me i'm wrong and just asking to have my rhino's stunned. lol

[Corrupted]

Extra armor means my rhino gets to move on anything but a glance five or six. All I need them to do is move, 12" pop smoke next turn 12" and dump out. Anything they do after that is icing.

[Roultox]

Melee, shooty or both with your plague marines?

 

~melee, the chance of str8 high ap shots to pick your marines off will reduce, at the cost of maybe some big melee monsters grinding you every other game.

~shooty, reliable but some armies pack 15 lascannons or similar per game, its a gamble.

 

To any round that doesnt instant kill the marine, the marine is roughly the durability of a terminator.

 

Plasma Gun/cannon/etc shot against a marine

3+to hit/2+to wound/4+feel no pain save (terminator gets 5+)

Bolter

3+to hit/4+ to wound/2+ save terminator or 3+ save plus 4+ FNP save (3 halved is a 1.5+ save, thats better then 2+)

AP3 strength 8 or better annihilates plague marines, that happen to be 7 points cheaper each, allowing for more numbers though.

 

Vehicles work wonderful along side plague marines, because people want to instant kill those nurglrons and not deal with those extra saves. That would stress his firepower to the max if he had to deal with 3 predators and a large score of ground troops in the form of plague marines.

 

Same cant be said about thousand sons/Icon of Tzeentch, because their save doesnt make them more durable to regular bolter fire and such, so they arent tempted to shoot them perhaps discoroged to fire heavy weapons against them and pop your tanks, these armies seem to work best against lots of anti tank fire by using no vehicles at all and give everyone an invulnerable save to force his spendy shots to kill low cost troops with 1/3rd or 1/2 chance to get past that save (depending on who you ask, 1/6 chance to kill turbo boosting biker with IoT).

 

Thats just my take on nurgle, if it helps your cause then glad I could help. But however, the most durable troops in the game against blown transport syndrome are nurgle marines, and I prefer to use 8 of them per 50 point coffin because of the ordinance and spreading my troops around the tank, usually 7 survive and that gives me space to avoid one pie plate one unit dead issues. It also spreads your numbers to require more vehicles killed, and after 2 units or so drop off their cargo, you run those coffins to make nice "I'll force that havoc unit to kill this mobile wall, then spend a turn moving around it to stop it from firing 2 turns in a row" point and laugh tactics.

[Lord Durius]

For 50 pts. you get a faster move, somewhat protection for your squad and a Havoc Launcher (I love those things). Of course you need Rhinos!

[Senseilord Ashahara]

I'd trim off the rhinos.

Death Guard are an infantry force.

[Reaper31]

Rhinos are great atm. What you propose sounds good, but I would be throwing a raider and/or vindicator into the mix to provide some fire support and divert the opponents AT fire.

 

But when 5th comes around, who needs rhinos? Plague marines get a massive boost due to their toughness and the new Run (fleet without assault). When it comes around, dont bother with rhinos. Just have a wall of plague marines, and charge them into the enemy. in 2nd turn you should be in double-tap range, and then blast em. by third you should be able to assault, and depending on the game and opponent, the game should be yours. 5 squads of 8-10 will have your opponent poopin himself over how to kill them (so tough...tau players hate plague marines).

 

Reaper31

[templarjoe]

So long as its 4th ed, rhinos are a must for chaos marines. 5th ed might offer the possbility of running accross the field. Overall all you gotta ask yourself is "Can my nurgle marines take punishment from my opponent's guns and still do what they need to do?"

 

Oh ya, and use some possessed.

[Silent Shadow]

A better idea is to try playing with a foot slogging army and a mech army. I personally would say that you don't really need rhinos because they're plague marines. They're made for walking across the field, facing enemy fire and just carry on moving, with T5 and FNP they're hard to stop, it's also unfluffy :lol:

 

At the moment I have a footslogging DG army. In 1000pts, I have:

 

3x7 squads of plague marines with champs and power weps,

a daemon prince with wings

either two oblits or a 2nd daemon prince (depending on what I choose I either have 1 or 2 plasma guns between my 3 squads)

1 generic greater daemon

 

It's a really fun army to play with, my plague marines walk up with my daemon prince(s) attracting the fire, I also sometimes have my oblits create covering fire and when I reach the lines I unleash the greater daemon, not bad for a non mech army ^_^

[Sircyn]

In my 1500pts competitive list I have been running three rhinos with 8 Plague Marines and not been using extra armour. I tend to hide my rhinos behind vindicators and terrain and after ten games so far haven't had much trouble with losing the extra armour. The key is to have your heavy support and HQ slots filled with big scary tanks and daemon princes to draw attention away from your rhinos. Combine that with some serious LOS denial and refused flank tactics to make sure you are only facing half the enemy army.

 

I find possessed vindicators and flying princes to be suitably wet your pants scary for this. Set up a catch 22 and force them to choose between trying to knock out your transports (if they can be seen, ideally you'll make it so that it is hard to concentrate fire upon them - plus for this one turn dash you have popped smoke) or disabling the distraction units which also threaten to drop pie plates or inflict monstrous choppy pain if not dealt with immediately. If your foe still managed to knock out your transports you can drop your ordnance and princes onto his AT units on that flank and so neutralise any major threat to the plague marines for their one turn of entanglement.

 

I think you can do without extra armour if you create the suitable situation on the table. If you plan for not having it, then you won't miss it all that often. It's hard work, but adds a heap of tactical depth to the 40k game. If you play a lot against eldar ignore this and take the armour plates!

 

I found that just taking the 35pt rhinos makes them so cheap I really don't mind taking them, it's only about the cost of a plague marine and adds so much more flexibility to your units. The mobile steel wall of terrain is an excellent way of keeping your short ranged army safe from counter attacks after your initial thrust. In short, try taking the rhinos without extra armour for a game or two, just be much more careful about how you build, and use your army. If you already have three rhinos just dropping the extra armour on them gives you the spare points for a whole new rhino with change!