Kalrik Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 So as I was pouring over my preview of 5th Edition I started to hate the new chaos codex less and less... Things that REALLY annoyed me aren't so bad anymore... Troop choices are the only scoring unit, and they score down to the last man as long as their not fleeing at the end of the game... We're one of the only codex with count em 5 fearless troop choices, and those sucky summoned daemons? Yeah we can have unlimited troop choices... to my knowledge no other codex can claim that. I was upset about the new Dread table... till I read in 5th edition walkers no longer pivot in the shooting phase, so in essence you can EASILY keep your troops out of its 45 degree line of fire... for some cheap points you can easily field some anti-tank. I was upset about scoring units at first... but it makes things like daemonprinces not the ONLY HQ choice... But so many other things are great now! Plasma cannons no longer overheat (good news for our oblits) as they don't roll to hit, just scatter. Speaking of overheating, gets hot is only on 1s again! (which explains increased plasma cost) Oh right, Dedicated transports can carry units other then their dedicated units (though must still be deployed with them) Deep striking got nasty dangerous again, but hey chaos can summon and deepstrike off icons that make their units better anyway!!! You can screen units again. your big beefy nurgle troops can take shots while the Khorne troops run up behind them! because Tactically Enemies and allies block line of sight... this makes positioning and movement far more important! overall I was a bigtime codex hater at first, but now that I've read and memorized the new 5th rules... I'm kinda excited!! Anyone else? Agree? Disagree? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/134900-is-anyone-else-excited-about-ccsm-in-5th-ed/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 So as I was pouring over my preview of 5th Edition I started to hate the new chaos codex less and less... Things that REALLY annoyed me aren't so bad anymore... Troop choices are the only scoring unit, and they score down to the last man as long as their not fleeing at the end of the game... We're one of the only codex with count em 5 fearless troop choices, and those sucky summoned daemons? Yeah we can have unlimited troop choices... to my knowledge no other codex can claim that. I was upset about the new Dread table... till I read in 5th edition walkers no longer pivot in the shooting phase, so in essence you can EASILY keep your troops out of its 45 degree line of fire... for some cheap points you can easily field some anti-tank. I was upset about scoring units at first... but it makes things like daemonprinces not the ONLY HQ choice... But so many other things are great now! Plasma cannons no longer overheat (good news for our oblits) as they don't roll to hit, just scatter. Speaking of overheating, gets hot is only on 1s again! (which explains increased plasma cost) Oh right, Dedicated transports can carry units other then their dedicated units (though must still be deployed with them) Deep striking got nasty dangerous again, but hey chaos can summon and deepstrike off icons that make their units better anyway!!! You can screen units again. your big beefy nurgle troops can take shots while the Khorne troops run up behind them! because Tactically Enemies and allies block line of sight... this makes positioning and movement far more important! overall I was a bigtime codex hater at first, but now that I've read and memorized the new 5th rules... I'm kinda excited!! Anyone else? Agree? Disagree? Hmmm I agree that some issues with the codex may be sorted but we also have to see how other lists do :> however still annoyed at this codex in regards to loss of legions but that is another topic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/134900-is-anyone-else-excited-about-ccsm-in-5th-ed/#findComment-1553667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 To be honest, I'm of the opinion that whatever problems there are with the new codex that the up and coming fifth ed rules happen to "fix" or mitigate will be largely incidental. Its (many) problems derive from much larger issues than its relevance to a particular rules set or game system. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/134900-is-anyone-else-excited-about-ccsm-in-5th-ed/#findComment-1553686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Durius Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I have a feeling that the new 'Forced March' o[tion I keep hearing about is gonna be fun for our Berserkers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/134900-is-anyone-else-excited-about-ccsm-in-5th-ed/#findComment-1553711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roultox Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Dont forget, every infantry unit can "run" (its like fleet, but they cant charge into melee, fleet-ers may charge though) Frag, Krak, CCW, Pistol, Bolter, Blight Grenades, Fearless, Feel No Pain, Mark of Nurgle, squad size: 20, powerfist champ, 2 meltaguns, all for 520 points. Not everyone would agree with me on the large unit size but considering pounding the ground as a menace until you reach the enemy sounds fun. Ready for anything. Shooting got bashed a bit, and sniping is all but impossible now, which is a good thing. Transports got their annoying rules taken away and now since they're dirt cheap I wouldnt mind using a few as a mobile wall of sorts. heck we pay 5 points less for a combi bolter termie, why not pay 5 pts more for a vehicle combi-bolter termy that can tank shock. I have a feeling my orks will like it most of all however. Guard will hate it most of all, its tricky enough deploying 150 guys, now he has to be concious how he deploys his rear line. Very annoying this line of sight block is! It now demands guard players to use a mixed combat style force with melee and tanks, all infantry guard are almost impossible to use at full effect until the front line retreats or gets munched by melee. (cant please everyone I know) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/134900-is-anyone-else-excited-about-ccsm-in-5th-ed/#findComment-1554098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blamb Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I was upset about the new Dread table... till I read in 5th edition walkers no longer pivot in the shooting phase, so in essence you can EASILY keep your troops out of its 45 degree line of fire... for some cheap points you can easily field some anti-tank. I'd disagree witht his. it says in the cahos codex the dreadnought must pivot, which would overright the 5th ed rule saying it can't. Troop choices are the only scoring unit, and they score down to the last man as long as their not fleeing at the end of the game... 1 up for chaos then. We can make viable lists using a larger proportion of troops than other armie can. Our troops are the most versitile in the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/134900-is-anyone-else-excited-about-ccsm-in-5th-ed/#findComment-1554179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladon Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 So as I was pouring over my preview of 5th Edition I started to hate the new chaos codex less and less... Things that REALLY annoyed me aren't so bad anymore... Troop choices are the only scoring unit, and they score down to the last man as long as their not fleeing at the end of the game... We're one of the only codex with count em 5 fearless troop choices, and those sucky summoned daemons? Yeah we can have unlimited troop choices... to my knowledge no other codex can claim that. I was upset about the new Dread table... till I read in 5th edition walkers no longer pivot in the shooting phase, so in essence you can EASILY keep your troops out of its 45 degree line of fire... for some cheap points you can easily field some anti-tank. I was upset about scoring units at first... but it makes things like daemonprinces not the ONLY HQ choice... But so many other things are great now! Plasma cannons no longer overheat (good news for our oblits) as they don't roll to hit, just scatter. Speaking of overheating, gets hot is only on 1s again! (which explains increased plasma cost) Oh right, Dedicated transports can carry units other then their dedicated units (though must still be deployed with them) Deep striking got nasty dangerous again, but hey chaos can summon and deepstrike off icons that make their units better anyway!!! You can screen units again. your big beefy nurgle troops can take shots while the Khorne troops run up behind them! because Tactically Enemies and allies block line of sight... this makes positioning and movement far more important! overall I was a bigtime codex hater at first, but now that I've read and memorized the new 5th rules... I'm kinda excited!! Anyone else? Agree? Disagree? I thought this was a none ranting thread, but you are saying the lesser daemons are sucky? why cause they are a summoned troop choice that can score also? or the fact that they(when summoned) will provide a cover save for squads behind them! again sucky? The 5th edition rules are going to be useful with the lesser daemons, chaos spawn and the so called crapy possessed. None winged daemon princes and the khorne daemon steed are actually is plausible now cause of the move in the shooting phase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/134900-is-anyone-else-excited-about-ccsm-in-5th-ed/#findComment-1554329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I'm looking forward to fifth. And playing Chaos in fifth. It looks like it will be a good time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/134900-is-anyone-else-excited-about-ccsm-in-5th-ed/#findComment-1554345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodwave Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Well, things start looking brighter for chaos armies, and the "lesser warp monkeys" seems to be way more usefull under the 5th rules... with the "run" rule and the scoring troops... I´m already anxious to start playing with 5th ed. rules. I hope the leak about dedicated transport available to other unit during the game it´s true... My shooty termies would be able lend their LR to my zerkos & Lord, once deployed. I saw something about slow & porpuoseful units regaining the +1A if assaulting... Is this true? Would also a S&P unit be able to run too? Maybe just wishful thinking... But if any of this is true my recently hired TSons squads will be a lot more usefull. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/134900-is-anyone-else-excited-about-ccsm-in-5th-ed/#findComment-1554352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalrik Posted April 25, 2008 Author Share Posted April 25, 2008 Hmmm I agree that some issues with the codex may be sorted but we also have to see how other lists do :> however still annoyed at this codex in regards to loss of legions but that is another topic. Oh of course, but hey its SOMETHING to celebrate! I'd disagree witht his. it says in the cahos codex the dreadnought must pivot, which would overright the 5th ed rule saying it can't. You seem to be right, poor dread. it stays in retirement. I thought this was a none ranting thread, but you are saying the lesser daemons are sucky? why cause they are a summoned troop choice that can score also? or the fact that they(when summoned) will provide a cover save for squads behind them! again sucky? The 5th edition rules are going to be useful with the lesser daemons, chaos spawn and the so called crapy possessed. None winged daemon princes and the khorne daemon steed are actually is plausible now cause of the move in the shooting phase. I feel in 4th they're a little underwhelming, in 5th, I intend to start using them! Well, things start looking brighter for chaos armies, and the "lesser warp monkeys" seems to be way more usefull under the 5th rules... with the "run" rule and the scoring troops... I´m already anxious to start playing with 5th ed. rules. I hope the leak about dedicated transport available to other unit during the game it´s true... My shooty termies would be able lend their LR to my zerkos & Lord, once deployed. I saw something about slow & porpuoseful units regaining the +1A if assaulting... Is this true? Would also a S&P unit be able to run too? Maybe just wishful thinking... But if any of this is true my recently hired TSons squads will be a lot more usefull. In my preview codex, it says nothing about S&P not getting to run... heck even dreads can run, but you give up your shooting and assault phases to do so, so unless there isn't an enemy within range, you'd rarely run The transport thing is pretty much confirmed , well as confirmed as anything else about the codex, and its about damn time, I can sense Greyknight players rejoicing as thier PAGK squads kick the INQ Stormtroopers out of their rides and get to battle on time =P as for the +1 attack for S&P you are correct. it seems slow and purposeful does get +1 attack for charging in the new edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/134900-is-anyone-else-excited-about-ccsm-in-5th-ed/#findComment-1554431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodwave Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 In my preview codex, it says nothing about S&P not getting to run... heck even dreads can run, but you give up your shooting and assault phases to do so, so unless there isn't an enemy within range, you'd rarely run The transport thing is pretty much confirmed , well as confirmed as anything else about the codex, and its about damn time, I can sense Greyknight players rejoicing as thier PAGK squads kick the INQ Stormtroopers out of their rides and get to battle on time =P as for the +1 attack for S&P you are correct. it seems slow and purposeful does get +1 attack for charging in the new edition. All good news. :rolleyes: Specially for my new TSons.. a run move (if there is no "juicy" target at sight) can make out for a poor s&p movement roll, if they are not riding a rhino.And the gain of the +1A on the charge, well, sure, their primary role would still be shooting, but if a CC situation occurs and I have the chance to assault, the TSons would be at least as good as a tac SM. And the transport "sharing" rule is so nice, appart from squeeze in a LR (or two) without spent HS slots, we will be able to use them to carry assault units that usually has no access to them, unless is a "HS slot LR". I have a DH army that have not used in ages... but I can certainly imagine my PAGK kicking the stormtroopers out of their transport... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/134900-is-anyone-else-excited-about-ccsm-in-5th-ed/#findComment-1554443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I'm just cackling over the "MCs may only fire once if they move" rule. I don't think it has any impact on a Chaos MC at all; most of ours seem to be assault-oriented, and Tzeentch uses psychic powers, not guns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/134900-is-anyone-else-excited-about-ccsm-in-5th-ed/#findComment-1554792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodwave Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I'm just cackling over the "MCs may only fire once if they move" rule. I don't think it has any impact on a Chaos MC at all; most of ours seem to be assault-oriented, and Tzeentch uses psychic powers, not guns. Yeah... I don´t think it affect chaos at all... Even the "shooty" psychic powers, IIRC, can be used only one per shooting phase... In any case, blasting something with a psychic attack would be a very, very secondary mission for a DP. That rule seems to be directed at nerfing Nids shooty monsters. It seems that walkers got limited to fire one heavy weapon if they move... again, not a major impact I think... the replacement of the DCCW by a ML seems to be a very unpopular option, if used at all... even more with the FF. And related to dreads and "non flying MCs", the "run" rule may make the 2xDCCW dreads and GGD (and non winged DP) a bit more valid option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/134900-is-anyone-else-excited-about-ccsm-in-5th-ed/#findComment-1554868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper31 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Suddenly Im having vissions of 20 basic chaos marines screening berzerkers, terminators and chosen.... And then comes the 2000pt 100+ daemon army, ideal for objective based games... Oh the possibilities.... Curious, the run rule...would that applie to jump infantry too? I think one of the biggest kicks in the behind we got though was with the powerfist. Ive always thought that having that rule with lightning claws was stupid (in a real-life sense), and now they put it on powerfists, with no way in many current codex's to take twin fists??? Not a good move IMO. Reaper31 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/134900-is-anyone-else-excited-about-ccsm-in-5th-ed/#findComment-1554919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladon Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I'm just cackling over the "MCs may only fire once if they move" rule. I don't think it has any impact on a Chaos MC at all; most of ours seem to be assault-oriented, and Tzeentch uses psychic powers, not guns. Unless you're playing the daemon codex...Sheesh that crap is cheese, I mean Limburger cheese! Curious, the run rule...would that applie to jump infantry too? Presumption Yes! Until more is known about it! I fear based on the BoLS newest confimations, My Dark Angels with plasma cannons might be seeing more time.... Blast templates scatter D6 minus BS, with marines they may scatter a grand total of 1" or 2" and with no more partials, every thing is considered hit! No more getting hot with PC's! Dammit were's the money for obliterators! ;) ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/134900-is-anyone-else-excited-about-ccsm-in-5th-ed/#findComment-1554942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper31 Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Looking at the "Preview" rules (not that I would download such a thing), I cannot find anything that says Jump Infantry cant use it so it should give them a nice, almost garuenteed(sp?) 2nd turn assault (depends where that Lash Prince is hehe). As for MC's only firing 1 weapon, I cannot see anything that says that either. Infact in the MC entry it clearly states that they can fire 2 ranged weapons a turn, provided their both at the same target. And yes, blast weapons no longer roll to hit. They are basically mini-ordanance. Frankly I would have prefered to keep overheating for a degree of certanty as to what I hit. Oh well,cannot have everything I suppose. Reaper31 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/134900-is-anyone-else-excited-about-ccsm-in-5th-ed/#findComment-1554979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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