Prot Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I'm just asking this question in general as I'm not sure what to do here. I haven't put most of my 'new' chaos together. I'm making an Alpha Legion list (actually I have the list up for review here. ) and I was wondering who should hold the icons? Can it be someone with a special weapon? Should it be? I'm thinking if a squad goes down to 2-3 guys, the icon really kicks in, but if I put it on a non-essential guy, I imagine the icon wouldn't make the last 2-3 models left on a squad. What have you found to work? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeklos Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I usually have my icon carried by my champion. I don't know if it's perfectly legit or not, but no one I've played with has ever had a problem with it. I mean, he is, after all, the best warrior of the bunch, so it would make sense that he'd be the one carrying the central focus of the squad's dedication into battle. Other than that, a special/heavy weapon trooper would be best, since the fewer models you have to "shepherd", the better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1559172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidren2401 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I put back pack icons on my champions Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1559174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 It's perfectly legit to place it on the champion but you have to ask yourself this: 1. Does my opponent field a Vindicare Assassin? 2. Do I 'shield' the Icon Bearer properly and deep enough within the squad so that he wont be Terrain sniped by long range weaponry? 3. Does my opponent use a lot of template weapons? If the answer to any of the above is yes, I advise you to place the Icon on someone other than the AC. That way, if one of them dies you won't lose all the benefits to your squad. My 2 Kraks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1559239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I put them on my champion. It has its upsides and its downsides (and they just about equal each other out) but I just like the idea of the squad leader giving them the leadership bonus. It seems appropriate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1559285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptain Von Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 I tend to stick them on a whole separate Marine. It does mean I've one more that I don't want to remove as a casualty, but the thing is I play this Eldar player with a long-established love of Mind War, and I like him to have to choose which model he snipes out of my units - historically he's always gone for the Champion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1559561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 1, 2008 Author Share Posted May 1, 2008 Interesting ideas guys. Thanks. I'm still not sure. The champ makes sense from the aspect of him being your last man standing in most situations, but as mentioned one bad template or mind war and your icon is gone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1559721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladon Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 I wouldn't put the icon on a champion at all, I've seen torrent of fire used on champions before to get rid of powerfists... too many eggs in one basket! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1559740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_giles Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 I tend to stick them on a whole separate Marine. It does mean I've one more that I don't want to remove as a casualty, but the thing is I play this Eldar player with a long-established love of Mind War, and I like him to have to choose which model he snipes out of my units - historically he's always gone for the Champion. That's what I do to. Having the champ with the Icon can make for problems. For example, if the champ is in the thick of close combat you have to hope to scatter far enough away for the demons to actually survive and not get wiped out by the one inch rule. Keeping the icon bearer toward the back on a completely separate marine means you only have to worry about scatter in one direction- toward close combat. Ditto for putting it on a special weapon trooper, but for slightly different reasons. A squad with two special weapons (or a special and a heavy), a champ, and an icon means your opponent has to really think about which one to kill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1559743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 1, 2008 Author Share Posted May 1, 2008 Actually Darth, you might be taking unnecessary risks. Re-check your rules for Daemon Summoning (P.61 I think) in your codex. Yea, I'm definitely torn. There is good argument for putting the icon on a special weapon guy, a champion, or an average marine. In my close combat rhino squad I'm thinking the champ though. Any squad that is going to be spending the majority of its time outside of a vehicle will probably have the icon on a normal guy. For 5th edition I'm thinking when it comes to wound allocation, this would be a better idea (putting icons on a normal marine). At least then if you lose your champion, you haven't lost your icon or special weapon, and vice versa. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1559940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanger Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 If you are using the Greater Daemon, then you should stay away with the icon from the AC, because when the GD pops out, you loose all benefits. Btw, I put it on a whole seeperate mini. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1563257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneris Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 I always put the icon on a seperate marine- My enemies are IG (Damn Vindicare) and Eldar (Damn Mindwar)... :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1563308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roultox Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 I would say it depends on unit size. In 5th the wounding specific models will get horrendous for units 6 and less. I mean, almost every time you get 4 saves, one of your three special models will be forced to take a save, and ironicly the icon bearer seems the least needed. So in small units I put him on my special gunner/champion(if no greater daemon is used). Otherwise one on its own models on a unit of 10 or more to be safe. I would suggest 10 man marine delivery systems, or if you run plague marines or thousand sons or even termies/bikes, smaller units are fine on their own model. PA models though, will have it rough in 5th IMO when squads whittle down to below 6. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1563446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senseilord Ashahara Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Simple checklist : Does the icon look cooler on a) my champion. :) special weapon guy c) random johnny ? I generally use Random Johnny so i can model champions, special weapons troopers and icon bearers seperately (don't like cluttered models). Icon bearing champion feels more fluffy though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1566468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Shadow Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Unless fifth edition changes the rules, I don't think you can't use template weapons to snipe models just to make it fairer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1566481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 I put the icon on the melta gun or have a seperate icon bearer. I think the champ is too many eggs in 1 basket, but if you have a champ 2 special weops, AND an icon bearer, that's 4 models you are trying not to lose. So I think making one of the special weop guys the icon bearer also in a good compromise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1566559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskie Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 I converted up icons before the newest codex. They used to be just decrotive and mainly for summoning plaguebearers. I still like the icon on a special model strategy. Reasons: 1) You can take a boring bolter guy and make him look cool. 2) Versatility if you have to lose a guy, you can do the cost benefit analyst of losing your champ, a special weapon, or your icon. This assumes all your joe guys are dead already. I so far have only played all Nurgle armies and the Nurgle Icon is the most expensive so he definitely isn't an expendable guy especially in the 10 model terminator squad I tried once. I tend to use fearsomely large squads regularly and losing the icon especially early would suck. I've yet to field "lessor deamons" or even a greater deamon so the icons have less use for me, I've never been big on teleportation... In my Astronomi-con Vancouver tournament list I'll be using a Havoc squad with an icon and no champ, so I'll be placing the icon on a random bolter guy. I too like the idea of a havoc squad with loads of special weapons and icon and once again wouldn't give it to the champ. The champ should already be cool enough and why handicap him holding a pole when he should be concentrating on leading his squad or killin' stuff in H2H. The bannerbearer is a seperate model from the champ in WFB for what it is worth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1566671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosuchmethod Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I lean towards putting the icon on a regular guy because of the vindicare/mindwar problem Of course, I don't get the problem with having to choose a special model casualty as much because I tend to run larger squads - its rare that a squad would get knocked to five guys or less without my opponent allocating enough firepower to decimate it to the point of uselessness. (A 15 or 20 man squad with the marks of khorne or nurgle is a lot of headache-per-point for most oppenents, especially with a couple lite-weight supporting elements) With the way shooting works in 5th, I predict a lot of people will be moving away from the min/max6 and toward larger squads, so the "where to put the icon" issue becomes less important. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1587984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Come fifth, there will really be a toss-up. On the one hand, having your goodies spread out around the squad increases the probability that a model with a goody will be forced to make a save (remember--if there aren't more wounds than you have regular bolter marines, you can just put all the wounds on regular bolter marines and not have to worry about losing your goodies at all). On the other hand, if your goodies are all on one guy and you take enough wounds to force that one guy to make a save, then you might fail it and you might lose all those goodies at once--which would be pretty bad. The point is that the two options aren't really distinguishable in terms of how likely they are to screw you in-game. I wouldn't worry about it. Just go for whichever you think seems more appropriate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1588113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 The solution is simple really. Have your banner/ marks hanging from your sergeant/ aspiring champion's neck on gold chain with plasma pistol in hand and a missile launcher strapped across his back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135334-where-to-put-the-icons/#findComment-1588477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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