ADD Defilers

[DeathsHead]

So, looking at the Chaos codex and thinking forward towards 5th edition, I find myself wondering what one is really supposed to do with a Defiler - not that it's that hard to find something for it to do... It's just difficult to really justify its various load outs. Especially with the upcoming changes to vehicular moving and shooting, it seems that there's really little for this unit to do except stay far away from things and blast away with its battle cannon.

 

With an eye towards fifth edition, does anyone intend to use this thing in close combat? What about the other shooting upgrades... is there any point?

[Kaptain Von]

I used to run one with a Havoc launcher. Note the past tense. These days I find that Defilers are rather too big and threatening in appearance for something that's only AV12: consequently they tend to be worried about, shot at and eliminated rather early on, usually by an opponent who's rather surprised at how easy it was.

 

Not being sure exactly what 'upcoming changes' you're referring to (it's all penny whistles and moon pie 'til I've the book in my paws anyway), my thoughts on the Defiler are that it could, in theory, do what I want my Dreadnoughts to do. The notion is to seed a couple in the lines and have them use their autocannons to shoot down transports, meaning I don't have to waste the bolter boys in a Marine squad that does that job, which in turn means that my Marines can concentrate on decimating the squashy innards. The Defiler also brings a large AP3 blast template, and it's fun to deal those out once in a while.

 

The downside with the Defiler - apart from its looking like a much tougher target than it really is - is that its ordnance isn't as good as the Vindicator's and it doesn't hide in the lines as well as a Dreadnought, though it is slightly saner.

 

As for the shooting upgrades? No. Not a fan. Reaper autocannon and additional close combat weapon all the way. More attacks are good, not worrying about losing firepower through fleeting before assaulting is good. Once it loses its battle cannon it can plough forward and only stop to take pot-shots at Rhinos, Trukks and other less-than-adequately-armoured transports.

 

 

Edited for slightly eccentric grammar, typos and bilge.

[Deneris]

I used to run one with a Havoc launcher. Note the past tense. These days I find that Defilers are rather too big and threatening in appearance for something that's only AV12: consequently they tend to be worried about, shot at and eliminated rather early on, usually by an opponent who's rather surprised at how easy it was.

 

Aye... I was used to the good old days when you could "up" the AV to 13. Now, my lovingly converted defiler is mostly reserved for Apocalypse-sized games where he hopes to avoid the attention of the various high-strength guns. With such an impressive model, you'd think GW would want to make it more attractive options-wise to us. Sadly, we're often better off just taking a Havoc squad...

 

My defiler's loadout? Reaper and Havoc...lol

[Prot]

The changes have made it difficult to define a role. I agree, however, 5th does make the paltry AV12 more survivable IMHO. Lots of things can glance AV12, but glancing has been turned down a lot, and maybe even bigger is 'cover'. For vehicles getting a 4+ 'save' against a hit is pretty serious. I don't think you can ignore the benefit of that.

 

But running it up the battlefield? I haven't had much success with that idea, I find a pie plate does more killing, at least I don't have to roll to hit. I'd say if GW didn't bring back crazy dreadnaughts, I'd probably rather field one of those. Still... consider what 5th edition does for armour.

[Maladon]

Don't run it up into CCW unless it loses weapons... I tend to keep mine back and act as a fire support vehicle.

 

As to add to what Prot was saying about the defiler in 5th edition, glancing hits will never destroy a defiler now... worst it can do is weapon destroyed... that's it. Okay let me rephrase that, unless its a ap1 weapon then it could get wrecked.

 

I wish my csm army can have soul grinder... it would make me a happy man! :P

[Sons of Horus]

i agree with keeping them far and safe. but a 6 legged dreadnought isn't that interesting.

[Seahawk]

I love the model and love what it does. The ding to BS was sad, but it's manageable since everything it fires is twin-linked or sits'n'scatters. I swap out my autocannons for heavy bolters depending on opponent (magnets ftw), and commonly upgrade to havoc launcher. Otherwise, I never take any extra dccw's. Definitely good fire support for me. Usually doesn't die, sometimes it does. I can't tell you how many times it's died to a glancing 6...finally those days will be over!

 

I think it's quite valuable in cityfight missions too. Flames, heavy bolters, battlecannon, and stomping power in a single package.

[Tfcdogbert]

I dont expect my defiler to live the whole game, but its battle cannon is fun, i can generally fudge enough hits to annihalate a unit every two turns, and that is just plain fun, the thing is, with their lascannons shooting at that, it gives me an extra turn to run my daemons up to brutally gank the opposing army in close combat.

 

I love its battlecannon, it converted me to want to create a traitor contingent for my Apoc army and to blow away the enemy with hundreds of pie plates.

 

*maniacal laughter*

[Brother Renn]

I wish my csm army can have soul grinder... it would make me a happy man! :huh:

 

Well, from what I understand, the Soulgrinder has some sort of 'maw cannon', which could probably double as a battle cannon. I plan on getting one (or two) to use with my World Eaters army, but I also plan on giving it the extra DCCW's for close combat.

 

I think you're gonna find a lot of people looking to either use the Soulgrinder as is, or else modify it so that it can carry the other weapon load outs of the defiler.

 

Oh, and to stay on topic, I plan on running mine as stated above: battle cannon with two additional DCCW's. Once the battle cannon is lost, move it forward into close combat.

 

Renn

[Sception]

It does the long range thing better then most of our other options, if you play on tables large enough to make that worthwhile. I myself usually run one with in my citifight armies, with a close combat weapon and twin heavy flamer. Sometimes the cityfight boards have extremely long, open streets on them, and the long range battle cannon lets the defiler sit in a corner and deny access to that street. Other times citifight games don't have long streets, and the infantry move, AV12, fleet, and heavy flamer all let the defiler do a great job of supporting my infantry.

 

In a regular game on a 4x4 or 4x5 table with limited terrain, I'm not sure the defiler would be able to contribute as well. Not long enough to take advantage of the range, not cluttered enough to cover its advance.

[Aarhus]

I'll be re-running my defiler how I wanted to in the first place:

 

Extra DCCW (more killy) and a Twin Lascannon, since I have very little long-range anti-tank.

It's nice, because there are times when your opponent can successfully hide his infantry from a good battle cannon shell (either out of LoS, or in 4+ cover, which is near-useless).

 

Therefore, having the Twin Lascannon for the same points as a single CSM with Flamer makes it so that NOTHING can hide from the defiler as I march him up the field.

 

That being said, I'll probably have more fun with Soulgrinders.

 

 

Cheers,

Lawrence.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I have two Defilers, one decked out with heavy flamer and reaper AC, the other with reaper AC and DCCW. I prefer to field them both simultaneously when I field them at all, using one as fire support while the other scuttles from cover to cover until it flings itself into CC with someone's expensive unit that only has krak grenades in it. :P

[Kaptain Von]

Multiple Defilers do seem marginally more attractive. One thing that springs to my mind - from the modelling potential - is buying a Soulgrinder and using the extra claws (it comes with a complete Defiler's Bottom Half, apparently, and is only missing the torso) as extra close combat weapons on two more. That gives me two 150 point Defilers that I can swap in and out for Obliterators or Vindicators (possessed ones with dirge casters), which are the other Heavy Support choices I feel the most love for. It also means that cometh the Apocalypse game there's a Defiler Assault Force right there - the Soulgrinder will do very nicely as a Squadron Commander, I think.

 

Gamewise, two Defilers means they could potentially live on a refused flank, where their superior range allows 'em to rain down enough pie plate death that they require dealing with - which might take a bit longer with two of them. Split to either end of the line they could enfilade nearly as well as Vindicators and be slightly more useful after they've lost their gun. The Fifth Edition alterations to damage tables might help them out against folks without too many S8 guns (that seems to be the break point for me; the Defiler can take a turn or two of autocannon fire but missile launchers, bright lances and Ork rokkits are where the pain starts), but I think they'll still be a more vulnerable Vindicator that can do more if it loses its main gun without being wrecked shortly afterwards.

 

Gods, I miss Parasitic Possession...

[Roultox]

I used my 3 stooges (defilers) one in the middle cuddling cover cakes, one at each end forcing his anti tank to deploy near the middle, and my raptors + terminators belch down the middle for a candy coated surprise. You take my fangs and I take youres approach. Either that or I deploy two defilers in one corner, to force most of his anti-tank onto one side, and deploy my last defiler on the other edge because of its range, most anti tank is 48". On a 8 foot table, that makes it difficult when his best anti tank is forced to one side. Tempts him to yet again put his anti tank in the middle (perhaps his last anti tank) and I fire first on that unit/vehicle and safe keep my lone defiler with a dunce cap in the corner.

 

For O, they are used to protect my silly noisy marines with boomguns while advancing all together like three bears a goldilocks my HQ.

[Senseilord Ashahara]

In most of the battles I've fielded my defiler he's survived and made enough of a mark to make it a unit worth taking.

 

I sit him (reaper and flamer) bang in the middle of my line.

If i get the first turn I can pick off vehicles or troops i don't like the look of.

If i don't get the first turn i can expect alot of heavy weapons and turrets to swivel his way. Most heavy weaponry is going to glance, ignore half the damage table. Las and battle cannons are a worry but if they're plinking off the Defiler's hull they're not raining down on my marines.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I planned on running two with maybe one or two DP's as a distraction to my rhino troops which will be needed to claim objectives.