Maladon Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 This weekend I intent to get a havoc squad box set and a attack squad, I all ready have 3 blisters of havoc marines with one lascannon, a autocannon and a missile launcher. but the question I have is about the ablative wounds for that squad, how many extra marines should I add beyond the five? I just want a semi consensus answer not a heated debate on the subject! thinking of a 8 man havoc squad with 4 hvy weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju'kosian Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 8 man seems quite fine for me. When I use havoc squads, I usually take 8 man squads Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1564618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tfcdogbert Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Back when i played loyalists i used 6 man devvies, now i dont use havocs although im fully intending to get some, 6 men is sufficient if you play on heany terrain, easier to hide, less need for them, but 8 men if your going on a board with less cover id say. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1564628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 I've used 8 with 4 heavies or 6 with 3 (for a cheaper option). Works well. I've seen people use 5 with 4 heavies, but I don't like that option as it is too easy to kill the important guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1564633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeklos Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Best bang for your buck is going to be the twofer - that is, two wounds per heavy weapon. So if you're fielding 3 heavies then go with 6 men, 4 heavies go with 8 men. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1564676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 As a couple of the other guys have said, I also go with 2:1. That is 6 havocs w/ 3 hvy weops or 8 havocs w/ 4 hvy weops. +* Not that u ask for this bit but I'll throw it in free of charge ;) I'm not a fan of LC's in a havoc squad to expensive IMO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1564740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainFireBob Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I use 8/4's, although I've also used 6/3's. 2:1 is the way to go for performance in the current game. Might change when only Troops are scoring, that remains to be seen. I'd still say 2:1. Also, try and mono-task. The only "mixed" Havoc squad I can recommend is two missile launchers and two autocannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1565184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I don't use Havocs any more but, I used to use a 2:1 ratio as well, and both 8 and 6 man squads depending on the opponent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1565215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladon Posted May 8, 2008 Author Share Posted May 8, 2008 Okay, so its a 2:1 for the squad, got it! Aspiring Champion- yes or no? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1565329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladon Posted May 8, 2008 Author Share Posted May 8, 2008 I use 8/4's, although I've also used 6/3's. 2:1 is the way to go for performance in the current game. Might change when only Troops are scoring, that remains to be seen. I'd still say 2:1. Also, try and mono-task. The only "mixed" Havoc squad I can recommend is two missile launchers and two autocannons. I am mono tasking, twin lascannons and twin autocannons are for hvy armoured vehicles as well as light armoured vehicles too. With the box set, I'll have 2 of each of the heavy weapons minus the heavy bolter(that I have about 5 of). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1565331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Aspiring Champion- yes or no?If you have the points for it and if your opponent have a habit of targeting your havocs with assault units (two of my regular opponents always do), otherwise no. My 2 Kraks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1565382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeklos Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Aspiring Champion- yes or no?If you have the points for it and if your opponent have a habit of targeting your havocs with assault units (two of my regular opponents always do), otherwise no. My 2 Kraks. Or just spring for the IoK. You get more bang for the buck that way (6-8 extra attacks for next to nothing!). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1565385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 30 pts is not next to nothing. How many times has anyones havocs fought off an assault squad and remained a viable shooting squad ? Basicly if your havocs get assaulted by a CC squad they are done (not to mention you are being overrun !) and you have problems that neither IoK nor a champ can fix. So IMO those pts are better spent else where ( like on a CC squad). IoCG is only 10 pts and insures that your havocs will not run due to losses from shooting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1565394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladon Posted May 8, 2008 Author Share Posted May 8, 2008 30 pts is not next to nothing. How many times has anyones havocs fought off an assault squad and remained a viable shooting squad ? Basicly if your havocs get assaulted by a CC squad they are done (not to mention you are being overrun !) and you have problems that neither IoK nor a champ can fix. So IMO those pts are better spent else where ( like on a CC squad).IoCG is only 10 pts and insures that your havocs will not run due to losses from shooting. Yeah an that the ICG is usually ignored for purposes of torrent of fire since its a worthless icon anyway! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1565404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainFireBob Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 New-style havocs lack CC vulnerability, with the base of 2 attacks. Not entirely, but it's improved situation. If you give ablative wounds bp/CCW, that helps with the problems too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1565658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I've always liked fielding 7 of them, 4 with heavy weapons, as a static gunline, but the rule of thumb seems to be any number between 6 and 10. I don't usually add an Asp. Champ into the mix unless it's the 4-melta or 4-plasma assault Havoc squad in a Rhino, then I toss in the power weapon/fist and a studly attack Icon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1565691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju'kosian Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 The Icon is not so bad, if you don't want to have youre havocs run away because of some shooting.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1565706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roultox Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 I have a saying. Compare what options are to the regulars within the codex. Pay 30 pts for a nakid champion, or buy a chaos terminator? Pay for 6 havocs with 3 lascannons at 195, or pay 30 pts more for 3 obliterators? I look at the game this way in many aspects. I also dont leave my havocs with 4 heavy weapons at anything less then 10 men strong. Reasoning, if only 2 units that can instant kill about 2 marines average without saves (like a couple LC predators) it will take them 2 turns to take me down to 2 marines, by that time I got a shot on one of them and if I stun it, it turns into 3 turns to kill my squad and I can manage to take out two lascannon predators at the very least. Same with a dark reaper unit, somehow if I take 8 they end up winning in a 5v8 firefight between units. If your paying 100+ points for just weapons, paying 30 pts more to keep them alive isnt that big of a deal. However, if your packing 3 chosen and 3 havoc squads, 3 extra models is fine when you have -that much- firepower aimed at the enemy. Assuming 12 meltaguns+3 heavy weapons and 12 other heavy weapons then add some noise marines/thousand sons and your good, with a pair of princes to deter melee and soak heavy hitting firepower with eternal warrior. (I know, its nasty, and capable within a 1750 list) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1565988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneris Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 To be fluffy I go with 9 man squads. As I normally have to fend off all sorts of sneaky gits (Like Lictors), I always take a Champion, and usually with a power fist. Even if they don't get assaulted, the Fist is a great deterant... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1566229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 if your playing a cc army you know will reach your lines (although hopefully reduced) like the mentioned tyranids above a champion can be useful as the squad can then act as a normal CSM squad supporting other units in CC hopefully you have already made back the points of the heavy weapons with shooting. I personally take powerfists with most champions if I give them special weapons but you don't have to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1566249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Lately whenever i run havoks its literally with all ten in a rhino. I run mine kinda as an assualty unit, x2 melta, x2 flamer, x1 champ w/pf. This is just my preference, but you can never have enough wounds to protect your key guys even if you are going to stand around and shoot. I would say 2:1 is a good ratio and key to stick with, if you dont plan on getting in the mess than no champ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/135780-havoc-squads-and-their-ablative-wounds/#findComment-1566287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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