Brother Aristeo Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I just thought up some new ideas about the Alpha Legion. In the novel Legion, it says that Alpharius and Omegon aren't so much twins as they're one Primarch with two bodies. We all know that Space Marines pick up certain traits from their gene-seed, like Space Wolves having long fangs and Blood Angels all being pretty boys. Since the Alpha Legion is known for its well-coordinated attacks and tactics, maybe this is an effect from a trait in their gene-seed. What I'm getting at is that maybe Alpha Legionnaires share some kind of collective consciousness, and this trait explains their well-coordinated tactics and plans. It also explains how killing one of their leaders seems to have no effect on their abiltiy to carry out their plans. The most obvious example of this being Alpharius/Omegon dying on Eskrador and the Alphas still stomping the Awfulmarines. In the novel, Alpharius tells Honen Mu that the Emperor used some of the Geno's genetic techniques in the creation of the Primarchs. The Geno use the Uxors to relay psychic battlefield information to their Hets and their men on the ground. This could be the genetic techniques to which he referred and, quite possibly, it may have only been used in the creation of Alpharius. This trait would be passed on to his Legion, who have all been made to look like him and who even go by his name. Chew on that for awhile. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1624106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkana Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 So, basically, they are Alpha Legion and they are all one? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1624132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 You got it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1624300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varney Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 That is one of the most fantastic ideas regarding the Legion I've ever heard. Really makes you think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1624311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lay Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 So, basically, they are Alpha Legion and they are all one?You've got the touch!Alpha Legion - traitors in disguise. What I'm getting at is that maybe Alpha Legionnaires share some kind of collective consciousness, and this trait explains their well-coordinated tactics and plans.Sounds pretty awesome. The whole twin plot would get a whole new meaning, but it makes me wonder how the they manage to keep this gift alive after the heresy. They don't seem too picky about getting new geneseed - the destruction of the Emperors Swords chapter comes to mind.Maybe they have some kind of initiation rite for rookies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1624314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senseilord Ashahara Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 " The Geno use the Uxors to relay psychic battlefield information to their Hets and their men on the ground. This could be the genetic techniques to which he referred and, quite possibly, it may have only been used in the creation of Alpharius. This trait would be passed on to his Legion, who have all been made to look like him and who even go by his name. Chew on that for awhile. " "So, basically, they are Alpha Legion and they are all one? " Hell yeah. My name is Alpharius Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1624638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xa0s Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 No. My name is Alpharius! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1624894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aristeo Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Okay, I read over the first chapter of Legion again today. I didn't get it exactly right word-for-word before, but what Alpharius tells Honen Mu is actually even more telling: "You have bred good soldiers, in the finest genetic tradition. You ought to know that the old genic legacy of the Chiliads was an inspiration the Emperor acknowledged in creating us." Since he says "us" he must be referring to the Alpha Legion, and not any of the other Legions or Primarchs. I would even go so far as to say that Alpha Legion Operatives/Cultists may share some of this collective consciousness, although it is probably as a result of implant technology. Index Astartes says that Cultists have been found with strange implants, and this is supported in the novel when the Medical Examiner finds a mystery body with a cadmium centrifuge in place of his heart. Near the end of the book, Soneka comments on how his new hand is even better than his old one. So the Alpha Legion appears to have access to strange and exotic technology not in use by the rest of the Imperium. Soneka notices how the Operatives behave in a training class with one of the Alpha Captains. They ALL went through their training movements as one, fluidly and flawlessly. He also notes how none of them seem to speak, even in their free time, which he found strange. Later, he talks about how he is trying to please his Lord. I think he's trying to prove his worth so as to be fully accepted and given his mental implants. Another reason I think Operatives have mental implants is because of how they operated BEFORE Alpharius took over his Legion. In Index Astartes, a Luna Wolf scout ship is brutally attacked by a group of small starfighters. It is noted that while they should not have been much of a threat, they are able to incapacitate the ship through very well-coordinated tactics. The main influence behind Alpharius augmenting his operatives most likely came from the mental link between Alpharius and Omegon. Having 2 bodies to control could come in very handy for a sneaky guy like Alpharius, and extending this ability to his army only made sense. He must have found a way to replicate this through technological means (I'm thinking Xeno-tech) to create an army of warriors that all shared a collective consciousness. Think of the Borg from Star Trek and you can see what I mean. Once Alpharius took over his Legion, he saw a means to further his own agenda with an army of super-humans made of his own genetic structure. It probably didn't take long to figure out that he shared a mental link with his Legion. I could imagine that his own powers could probably bolster his Marines in the field the same as the Uxors do for their soldiers. He may have even used some implant technology on his Captains to strengthen their mental bonds in a similar way that Tyranid Synapse Creatures operate. Or maybe certain Legionnaires develop stronger mental abilities than others and are placed throughout the ranks to strengthen the chain of command. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1625091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senseilord Ashahara Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 "No. My name is Alpharius! " I'm Alpharius and so's my wife! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1626049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannicide Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I intended on picking up Legion, but haven't yet. When at my local bookstore today, the loyalist inside of me picked The Saint (The second omnibus in the Gaunt's Ghosts series) over it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1626454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senseilord Ashahara Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 corpse-god running dog. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1626906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmndr Sarpedon Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I really like the idea of a loyalist Chapter falling intentionally (going undercover) and being declared traitors as a consequence, but they fight against Chaos while being hunted by both sides. Epic. They would be the most dedicated of all the Chapters had they done that... Brave men willing to do their duty whatever the cost.... infact... I might just set up a AL army now :o Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1626944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senseilord Ashahara Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 they're not though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1627742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xa0s Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 they're not though. You dont know that. Everything is a lie with that chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1628703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senseilord Ashahara Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 just feels to me that the "Oh actully they're loyalists" is far too a literal reading. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1629015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkana Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Some of them might be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1629278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 Could the legion just be more accepting of their brothers different points of view? Could a collective mind idea suggested by Brother Aristeo nullify such thoughts? Good, evil, just titles given to those who fight for certain things or in certain manners. Which is the Alpha Legion? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1632081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkana Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I read somewhere that Alpharius encouraged his officers to think independently, so they're probably more accepting of others views, as long as the views are reasonable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1632097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xa0s Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I read somewhere that Alpharius encouraged his officers to think independently, so they're probably more accepting of others views, as long as the views are reasonable. This is what I had in mind and he beat me to it, but that's precisely my point. They could be either loyalist or chaos, really. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1632175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Kravin Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Or opposed to both. My Alpha Legion fluff incorporates the idea that both "Loyalists" and "Chaos" are traitors to the Emperor and his vision which drove the Great Crusade - Imperial Truth. If it is wrong to follow irrational superstition, religious beliefs and dogmatic teachings instead of science and reason then both the Chaos worshippers and the Imperium built on a perverted cult using the corpse of the Emperor ought to be destroyed to free mankind to return to the ideals that the marines were created to uphold. In Inquisitor terms they are Xanthite Recongregators - seeking to understand and manage Chaos and turn it back on itself whilst trying to eliminate the corrupt aspects of the Imperial institutions. Are they "closet loyalists"? No. Their motives are not those of Chaos but their actions are every bit as ruthless. If you've seen Batman Begins (and if you haven't I recommend it) then you'll be able to see the similarity to the League of Shadows. They are built on the idea of pursuing order and what they believe to be their duty to mankind but in order to do it they exist outside the law and exhibit a high degree of ruthlessness. Another comparison is the Matrix where Morpheous tells Neo that many of the very people that they are trying to save are not ready for the truth and that they are part of the system and therefore they are their enemies. Whether my Alpha Legion have succombed to chaos without knowing it as a result of their studies, I do not know. That's my own fluff, or maybe I'm just another instrument doing my bit to spread misinformation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1632701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senseilord Ashahara Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Yeah that's a fair reading of it I reckon. As 'loyalists' are not loyal to the vision of the Crusade (which may or may not be different from the Emperor's vision.....) the label of Loyalist or Traitor legion is irrelevent. By 'modern' thought, the Legion would have been Heretical pre-Heresy due to their thoughts on the futility of maintaining an 'enlightened' Imperium. As to wether elements of the Alpha Legion could be 'loyalist' and others 'traitors'; The Legion were trained to act, fight and think indipendantly so i suppose it's a possiblity, but it does diverge somewhat from the Unified Front that the Alphas put up. But then as i have said once or twice before: Ten Thousand years is a long time to brood. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1633054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkana Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Inquisitor Kravin, you should post your fluff up here to enlighten the rest of us. It makes a lot of sense and seems to fit the Legion, or at least parts of it, perfectly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1633127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aristeo Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Alkana, you're absolutely right. I forgot about that little fact when I thought up my theory about collective consciousness. I guess you can't have collective consciousness if you're trying to think independently. Thanks for pointing that out, as I actually like being proved wrong. Now it's back to the drawing board. Wow, Inquisitor Kravin, that's really eye-opening. I guess nobody should know better than you, huh? :) I agree with Alkana, you should post your fluff. I'm interested to see what other insight you could provide. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1633203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Kravin Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Flattery works! (Note to self: must meditate on the corrupting nature of pride arising from flattery - it weakens the will and leads to Slaanesh). I don't have a single document that constitutes "my fluff". My army fluff is a collection of short stories and colour text plus a general kind of mindset that I use when designing scenarios or deciding how my army will operate when involved in a narrative campaign. Nontheless I'll see if I can find something more to post next week. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1633756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aristeo Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I hear you Kravin, I'm the same way. I'm in my head all the time. I like what you said though. Sometimes I've thought that they might be against both Imperial and Chaos views. They sure don't like the Word Bearers, but they associate with all the other Legions. I've often thought that they may have started out using Chaos as a means to an end but, after the Legion splintered, certain factions couldn't help but rely on Chaos more and more. It's just the all-corrupting nature of it I suppose. On another note, I rethought my collective consciousness theory. A sort of "hive mind" would be far too all-encompassing I feel. But I do still feel that there's something at work in the general area. It could work the exact same way as the Geno 5-2 Chiliad, which would make sense since it was directly referenced in the novel. I'd say that Alpharius, Omegon, Captains, and maybe any psykers (Like Shere) could 'cept battlefield information to the rest of the Legion. That way, they could rely on that help if needed, but still think independently. The only part where this theory breaks down is that the Alpha Legion doesn't seem to be affected when they lose one of their leaders. Of course, since we know that their leaders tend to disguise themselves, the leaders may not really be getting killed. Man, it's so confusing trying to figure these guys out. I feel like my brain's goin to pop. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/137784-alpha-legion/page/3/#findComment-1634323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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