Hubernator Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 After some chat with Barret I've now finished all the changes I wanted make. The war is in the Beliefs section and other minor details have been sorted. C&C please ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1596428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 Put up a story now somewhere else (wish I could remember where :D). I've created a little sidebar in the Origins section that will house all my wars I write up. Hope you enjoy. C&C please :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1598534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrus Manus Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 To be fair I think you need to concentrate on the basis of you IA like the Homeworld, Origins etc... before writing any side bars. At the moment it looks like your sidebar has more info than your IA. Â EDIT: Sorry if that sounds a little harsh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1598538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 Bit too late :D I know I'll need to expand on those areas heavily. Going through that process is of course the tricky bit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1598543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 But perhaps the issue is that you seem to be dancing around those 'tricky bits' whilst concentrating on the flashy aspects. Really apply yourself on the areas like the Beliefs, Combat Doctrine, Organisation and the like, and your Chapter will be far cooler. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1598598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 Well for all the sections I've got the right (I think) stuff down. It's just the case on building up upon them. I'll start now as I've got the time. Next week I won't get a chance - final 4 GCSE's (FINALLY :D) then I'm going out. The week after I'm busy again. But I shall get it all done. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1598606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted June 14, 2008 Author Share Posted June 14, 2008 OK, I've had a crack at expanding the battlecry section, but I really am stuck as to how to expand all the other sections (OK maybe not beliefs as that's quite big already). Help please :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1599591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted June 16, 2008 Author Share Posted June 16, 2008 Right. I'm going to do the on-off thing until Friday after my last GCSE. I've had a real go expanding some fluff. Had some help along the way. Â Loadsa comments please B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1601462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Right guys, I'm back! :) No more exams means I can get going again. I've expanded on most of my fluff and gave it a makeover :P C&C please :) Â NOTE: Models will be coming soon :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrus Manus Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Right lets have a look...  First thing. Brake your section up into smaller paragraphs, escpecially the Origins and Beliefs sections.  700 M40; the creation of the 25th Founding. From this Founding came many new Chapters. One of these was the Phantoms. We don't know the exact date of the 25th Founding, so I would leav it out, If GW publish it then your fluff is wrong. Also, a founding isn't created its declared. The chapters are created. :)  The High Lords of Terra agreed and therefore pronounced that Letalis would become the Chapter Master of a new chapter I don't think the High Lords need to agree, their parent chapter just need to send someone. By the way who is their parent chapter? I assume its the White Scars due to Letalis being a Khan.  Letalis (now a Khan) took his new-found Chapter to receive some vessels from the AdMechs of Mars. After picking up a few Escorts and Strike Cruisers, they set off. The chapter's first fleet components are given to them by their parent chapter.  Chapter deploid Deployed.  Chapter and launched the Silent Strike attack from behind the Orks whats a Silent Strike attack? Later on I find out its their lead vessel. So the sentence should be 'the Chapter launced an attack from the Silent Strike Battle Barge...'  it seemed inevitable that the system would fall to the burgeoning Tau Empire, until the Phantoms arrived, under the command of Letalis Certamen. Although losses were high, Letalis was determined not to let the Xenos take Torrok from the Imperium  This makes them sound a bit uber. Maybe change it to "the planet's PDF force was being driven back into their fortresses and preparing to fight till the last. They prayed for help. It came in the form of the Phantoms." That makes them sound needy but not like the Phantoms come down and everything is sorted.  he took up the fallen Master's weaponry and led a brilliant counter-attack that shattered Tau resistance. Why would he do that if he had his own weaponry which he would have fought with since he because a sergeant/captain? Remember marines guard their own weapons with their lives.  oard. it also has a strong hull and much fire-power, making it a formidable vessel Capitals...  This Battlebarge is even more fire-power than The Silent Strike and has a much stronger h Has even more...  Weapons, armour and vehicles are also manufactured on the planet in the few cities that the planet could establish on the surface Hrmm, only small weapons, flak armour and smaller vehicles and ammo could be forged on a mining planet at best. Most things the astartes need are forged on Mechanicum Forge Worlds.  Recruits here are much more plentiful but aren't as good as those on Omega. Nevertheless most recruits come from this planet. Astartes only want the best of the best, so they would probably only recruit from Omega and except that they wil have a smaller flow of recruits than most chapters. Look at the Castigators, for different reasons they have a smaller flow of recruits but they seem to be getting on fine.  , usually the First, is diploid right behind the enemy and strikes them. Deployed again...  The Phantoms are currently recovering from The Torrok War, so they're not at full strength. There are around 720 Astartes currently in the Chapter, split into 8 Companies. So in two hundred years plus they haven't been able to get enough recruits to recover their losses, even though they recruit from two planets.  The first Company is the main Company of the Phantoms and coincidentally receives the heaviest casualties overall. So why are the Veteran Company the main company, even thought there are eight other companies that would probably be at war most of the time.  They are either deploid in Thunderhawks way behind enemy lines or by Drop-pods directly into the enemy. When the first Company is deploid they are used in key attacks. Deployed twice...  The Beliefs of the Phantoms have changed many a time during their rather young history. These changes vary from the most subtle influences to a big historic event, each one adding something new to their ideas of the universe. So a chapter of Space Marines, some of the most zealous people in the galaxy coming when it comes to beliefs, change them simply because of historical event? Explain.  After his death the Chapter mourned him - some thought that he wasn't dead at all; others felt he would return; They had seen him dead upon the field or found out as the 1st Captain led the counter attack, but they think he isn't dead. Again, explain.  Some queries have been raised but after a brief investigation by the =][= it was confirmed that the Phantoms were of White Scar gene-seed. I think the Inquisition would have more important things to worry about than what geneseed a chapter is. It would be the Admech that would enquire.  During the battle many Astartes from all three Chapters had noticed the Phantoms being more resilient in the heat of battle and fighting with somewhat more ease. Some even saw a few Phantoms fall from what could of been near-fatal injuries and get back again to fight on. Again, Uberness, change it. Make it more subtle. Show don't tell.  The Phantoms tend to be of the silent type. Most Chapters and enemies all mention that most of the Phantoms are deathly silent in battles, letting the enemies fears build as they're being attacked. However they do have a few battlecries. The most common one repeated is combination of quick battlecries. The Commander or Chaplain would start by shouting "We Stand As One!", the Company would then reply "We Fight As One!". Finally they all cry "We Are ONE!!!" and charge into battle.Viktor Kraw and some Commanders move away from this usual chant. Those who do choose not follow the usual chant often cry "For Letalis, Jaghatai and The Emperor!!!" after the Torrok War when Viktor Kraw took control and lead the charge.  So there silent, and they want the enemy to be anxious and fearful before they come, but they ruin it by shouting before the attack? Why?  Hope that helps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 The chapter's first fleet components are given to them by their parent chapter. Â It's a little foolish to call him out on the date of a founding we don't know and then state with absolute, searing confidence that fleet components are given to a nascent Chapter by their parent, isn't it? We don't know that for certain. You can say that you think they are, or that it's likely they might be in most situations, but you have to be careful about pulling down someone else's ideas if you don't have sources to prove your supposition. Â Â the Phantoms come down and everything is sorted. Â Funny... isn't that what usually happens when the Marines get involved in a war? :( Â Why would he do that if he had his own weaponry which he would have fought with since he because a sergeant/captain? Remember marines guard their own weapons with their lives. Â Equally, this might be a tradition. It might be a desire not to let his Master have died in vain. It could be a desire to honour his Master by giving him (in a sense) the kill that ensured victory. You might also remember that Marines do utilise weapons that are handed down through the Chapter from hero to hero. Â Astartes only want the best of the best, so they would probably only recruit from Omega and except that they wil have a smaller flow of recruits than most chapters. Look at the Castigators, for different reasons they have a smaller flow of recruits but they seem to be getting on fine. Â Not really a good idea to name-check the Castigators here. It's a grey area in the background of the Castigators - and in the background of all planet-based Space Marine Chapters. If the Marines constantly take the best of the gene-pool, and these recruits aren't allowed to breed, the recruiting population will decline in quality. That's why technically Fleet-Based Chapters should be the healthiest, as they can leave planets to effectively go "fallow" and recover from their depredations. Ultimately, it's one of those areas where 40k background puts its hands over its ears and yells "LALALALA NOT LISTENING!" to reality. And so we gloss over it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Thank you Ferrus for your helpful advice :) Lets see... Â First thing. Brake your section up into smaller paragraphs, escpecially the Origins and Beliefs sections. Done dusted :P Does look better. Cheers. Â We don't know the exact date of the 25th Founding, so I would leav it out, If GW publish it then your fluff is wrong. Also, a founding isn't created its declared. The chapters are created. ;) Oops, my bad. I've modified it now; any better/worse? Â I don't think the High Lords need to agree, their parent chapter just need to send someone. By the way who is their parent chapter? I assume its the White Scars due to Letalis being a Khan. Ahhh, OK. Changed it now. And yes, their parent Chapter is the WS :D Â The chapter's first fleet components are given to them by their parent chapter. Ah right. Again, changed it. Â whats a Silent Strike attack? Later on I find out its their lead vessel. So the sentence should be 'the Chapter launced an attack from the Silent Strike Battle Barge...' That's my bad grammer playing up :) Basically they have a battle tactic called "The Silent Strike" that is like the Deathwing Deepstrike. I've changed it again so it should make sense again. Hope it does :) Â This makes them sound a bit uber. Maybe change it to "the planet's PDF force was being driven back into their fortresses and preparing to fight till the last. They prayed for help. It came in the form of the Phantoms." That makes them sound needy but not like the Phantoms come down and everything is sorted. I'll point out now Mol wrote this for me :ermm: I can't seem to get around it though, the system is supposed to seem like it will get taken over and the Phantoms helped the inhabitants fend off the Tau. Â Why would he do that if he had his own weaponry which he would have fought with since he because a sergeant/captain? Remember marines guard their own weapons with their lives. Changed it, any better? Â Capitals... Noted and corrected. Â Has even more... Again, noted and corrected. Â Hrmm, only small weapons, flak armour and smaller vehicles and ammo could be forged on a mining planet at best. Most things the astartes need are forged on Mechanicum Forge Worlds. Ah... I was hoping to get away with the planet being a mining planet and a Forgeworld. Â Astartes only want the best of the best, so they would probably only recruit from Omega and except that they wil have a smaller flow of recruits than most chapters. Look at the Castigators, for different reasons they have a smaller flow of recruits but they seem to be getting on fine. I don't want them to be like the Castigators. Besides these guys are building their forces first. The Jikovains are decent recruits and the number of Omegan recruits is very few. Â So in two hundred years plus they haven't been able to get enough recruits to recover their losses, even though they recruit from two planets. Ummm... yes... Â So why are the Veteran Company the main company, even thought there are eight other companies that would probably be at war most of the time. The veteran company is the most experienced in battle so by rights they should be more successful. Â So a chapter of Space Marines, some of the most zealous people in the galaxy coming when it comes to beliefs, change them simply because of historical event? Explain. The idea I was going for is that the war affected the Chapter in many ways. Â They had seen him dead upon the field or found out as the 1st Captain led the counter attack, but they think he isn't dead. Again, explain. Â I think the Inquisition would have more important things to worry about than what geneseed a chapter is. It would be the Admech that would enquire. Changed it. Â Again, Uberness, change it. Make it more subtle. Show don't tell. Removed some of it and tweaked the rest. Any better? Â So there silent, and they want the enemy to be anxious and fearful before they come, but they ruin it by shouting before the attack? Why? You make a fair point. I've rewritten it, hope its better. Â Deployed.--- Deployed again... --- Deployed twice... Thank the Emperor someone knows how to spell that word!! I've been literally pulling hair out just trying to work out how to spell it! Thank you :) Â Thanks for the help Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrus Manus Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Ah... I was hoping to get away with the planet being a mining planet and a Forgeworld. Â Thats fine, just say that its a forge world in the description. I either missed it or it wasn't there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Sorry it wasn't there before. It will be now :) Thanks again for your help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrus Manus Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 One quick thing, I would brake up that huge first paragraph in the origins section, it might make it easier to read. As at the moment its a bit harsh on the eyes :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Yeah sure, I can do that for ya :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 You've certainly improved the article - it certainly looks more like an IA article now. Though a planet doesn't need technology to be a forgeworld. Forgeworlds are a very particular type of planet - one of the key tenets being that they need to be under the dominion of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Well thank you :lol: Â And I didn't know that. Any basics characteristics on a Forgeworld that you can offer?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrus Manus Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Forge WorldTithe Grade: Aptus Non Comments: Sovereign Domains of the AdMech, they are planet wide factories. A forge World often serves as base for a Titan Legion. Forge Worlds supply arms and armour to Imperial armies. Cross-ref: Esreban VII, Gryphonne IV, Lucius, Mars, Ryza, Triplex Phall. Â Hope it helps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 So a planet more or less dominated by factories designed to create weapons, ammo and vehicles for Chapters? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrus Manus Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 So a planet more or less dominated by factories designed to create weapons, ammo and vehicles for Chapters? Â And the Guard, Navy, Inquisition. Basically for every branch of Imperium's armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Though no sane Space Marine Chapter would recruit from a Forgeworld. The Adeptus Mechanicus really wouldn't allow it. Â Read this post, in particular this section: Â Home Sweet Home One thing I wanted to address was the issue of homeworlds. From time to time I see DIY Chapter whose homeworlds are forgeworlds. Arguably it's not impossible, but it would (to my mind) be unlikely. That stems from the seperation of power, again. It's basically rubbing the Imperium's nose in it that your Chapter and the AdMech are bosom buddies. But also, Forgeworlds are already ferociously protected. The Adeptus Mechanicus are insular and paranoid, distrustful of unpredictable 'organics'. There are legions of Skitarii, all manner of weaponry and the like. Space Marines aren't really best used as defensive forces. Â I think some DIYers do it to justify their wonderful tech levels. But another option would be to have your homeworld near a forgeworld. The Forgeworlds need food, after all, and some forgeworlds sit at the centre of a network of planets - mining colonies for resources, agri-worlds for food... it's entirely possible to be near a Forgeworld and to be part of that 'web'. You'd be close enough to enjoy quick resupply, but far enough away to cause problems. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 I had a feeling they wouldn't. Thanks for that guys. I just sparked an idea - can I say that the Phantoms regularly send men and youths to Mars or any Forgeworld to become tech-people? Or is that too ambitious? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 All (or almost all) Chapters send Marines to Forgeworlds to become Techmarines. Just read your Space Marine Codex. The key Chapter that doesn't is the Space Wolves, who maintain their own Iron Priests. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Urrr, I don't have a Codex :lol: And I don't mean marines, I mean like normal citizens. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/138018-the-phantoms-v25/page/2/#findComment-1605638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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