When is the Aspiring Champion worth it?

[meeper]

Just as the topic says, is 40 points (plus the cost of the marine, cult marine or terminator) really worth it for the unit upgrade and power fist? When does it do the most good? When can it be left at home? Do all squads need it?

[Brother Nihm]

From my own experience all squads don't need it, and I only take an Aspiring champion with a fist if:

 

1. I have excess points.

2. I know that the unit will be facing Monstrous Creatures, which happens about 50% of the time.

3. If the AC can bring something to the table that no other model in the squad can (e.g. be a Daemon Vessel for a Greater Daemon)

4. I need to up a unit's threat factor in accordance with strategy.

 

I find that I often don't really need to have an AC in there but when the need for one arise, I'm damn glad I spent points on them.

AC's are my 'insurance' that pain will be dealt if anyone goes near them. :)

 

I am seriously considering leaving 2 of my 4 AC's out come fifth edition, or switch the last 2 AC's from being in Elites to Troop choices.

 

My 2 Kraks.

[the jeske]

as you yourself asked . not all units need it . for example the anti tank raptor unit [5man +2 melta guns or 3 man termis with combi weapons ] are ment to be cheap , so no asp champs for those . units that are ment for hth [zerkers or 8 man raptors squads ] should always have asp champions with fists [4th edition] or powerweapons [the 5th] . havocks should never have asp champions unless you run them with 4 flamers [but on the other hand there are better options then havocks in the dex ] . the rest of chaos sm units [10 csm squads ] can have asp . Its ok if you have 3 squads that one is naked [not enough pts to buy asp +weapon] just remember to keep them a bit back .

 

Ps : PM's asp champs should always have fists 3I power weapons are not so efficient .

[Tfcdogbert]

Ive found it worthwhile about 50% of the time, in that it would have made a difference in 50% of cases over power weapons, the most memorable was when i glibbed a cannoness with my last attack and stopped her slaying my champion and rampaging through my heavy support, or when he put 3 wounds on a daemon prince, enabling mine to arrive and hack it to shreds.

[Maladon]

as you yourself asked . not all units need it . for example the anti tank raptor unit [5man +2 melta guns or 3 man termis with combi weapons ] are ment to be cheap , so no asp champs for those . units that are ment for hth [zerkers or 8 man raptors squads ] should always have asp champions with fists [4th edition] or powerweapons [the 5th] . havocks should never have asp champions unless you run them with 4 flamers [but on the other hand there are better options then havocks in the dex ] . the rest of chaos sm units [10 csm squads ] can have asp . Its ok if you have 3 squads that one is naked [not enough pts to buy asp +weapon] just remember to keep them a bit back .

 

Ps : PM's asp champs should always have fists I3 power weapons are not so efficient .

 

Woah! its the end of the world Jeske gave props to power weapons! :P

 

I usually do tend to take AC's for squads(with power weapons) for the added punch in hth, since my dice have done well for me against MC's and rolled the 6's when needed.

 

And until stores down here get more plague marines in, I'm holding off on them.

[the jeske]

its the end of the world Jeske gave props to power weapons

in the 5th thats it , in the 4th they are not worth it . also in the 5th they are no where as good as the fists are in the 4th . In fact one could say that in the 5th anyone [save the PM's ] can take what ever he wants [specially if playing larger non tournament games ] . fists still kill more men , then weapons [on normal SM ] unless someone has def granades , but they can no longer single out IC and MC are not so good anymore in the 5th. this makes a lot of the reasones why they were taken gone [+ the cost hurts the 1,75k army build unless its PM's they just dont fit in all squads .].

[Zeller]

I use aspiring champions in every sqaud because you never know when you`re going to lose the first 10 marines from your 20 man undivided squads. Besides, having good leadership is asolutely imperative.

 

Of course, there is always the notion that the chaos marines flock to power and thus fight under a champion.

[Night Stalker]

i rarely use my AC lately. in fact i used only 1 in 50% of battles - in second half i used none :> but i dont faced nidzilla [tournament luck]:evil:

[meeper]

but if one was playing an entire army of PMs would the fist on every champion be helpful? what about if all squads were mounted in rhinos?

 

I love all the replies im getting thus far, thanks everyone :devil:

[DuskRaider]

Power Fists on PMs are well worth it, they Initiative sucks anyhow, and chances are you're going to strike last, so might as well make it worth it.

[Cale]

On big squads riding around in Rhinos, where you're likely to be hopping out well within your enemy's charge range, the Aspiring Champion is probably worth it--whether with a power fist or a power weapon. The leadership and extra close combat ability are important in close-range game where casualties tend to be high and combat is very likely.

[Kaptain Von]

I don't think I've ever fielded a Chaos Marine squad without one. It should be noted that I don't field small tankbuster squads (five Raptors with two meltaguns, three Terminators with combi-meltas, what-have-you), and also have an unwholesome habit of taking Greater Daemons. Even the squads who don't directly benefit from having an Aspiring Champion with kit of any sort tend to get one without, just in case I run out of Possession victims.

[chillin]

undivided csm

I put a fistichamp in my csm squads armed w/ melta/flamer b/c they go into the thick of hth. In my squads armed with 2 plasma I have phased out the champ. That are supposed to rapid fire as much as possible as stay out of hth so they don't need the champ as much.

brzrkrs

I'm torn here, a brzkkr charge is pretty crushing even w/ out a champ, but you know they are going into hth so why not give them a champ to make them even more deadly ?

T'sons

You have to have a sorc, so no choince to be made

PM's

have not used them in this dex, so take with a grain of salt. As some one said, the go at int 3 so why not give a PF ? On the other hand the are expensive and I can see 7 PM w/ 2 plasma guns holding a objective jsut fine w/ out a champ, esp w/ T5 and plague grenades etc. so why not save the pts ?

NM's

Depends on how you use them. As a sixman dakka squad just armed w/ sonic blasters they don't need a champ as they can lay out 18 bolter shots from 24" away, so no need to get close.

But you can also use them as an awesome assault unit w/ int 5 and the champ w/ PW and doomsiren, used this way there is no real need for sonicblasters.

raptors

I no longer put champs with raptors. O either use them as 5-6 man anti tank squads w/ 2 meltas, no need for champs, or as a "retinue" for my flying sorc, again no need for champ b/c the sorc is there.

[Smurfalypse]

Ive always been a huge fan of champs, About the only unit i never use them in are my possessed (i use at least 10 in EVERY army i write up now adays). Havocs i always run with two melta and two flamers so always a champ in there, base CSM's i run a champ in every one, raptors i run with flamers and a champ with a PF, I have gotten away from small termi-cide units and stick to my larger 10 man term squads so i always have a champ in there.

 

Besides the PW or PF he brings to the party he always improves most units leadership, which is very handy in a tight spot. In fifth they should become more popular with the way HtH will work and the moral minus' you get for gettin punk'd in melee.

 

Just my two cents.

[Lady_Canoness]

I always take champions in my squads. Power Weapons make such a difference when fighting MeQs that it really makes no sense not to include one.

[Brother Evar]

I take about 3 asp champs in my BL at 1.5K pts. Onr raptor PW champ and x1 fist champ, x1 PW champ in CSM squads. Only because they are assulty w/ flamers/meltas. If I was more rapid fire / long ranged I wouldn't bother with any champs. :P