Fluffy lists?

[Cale]

I dunno, Night Stalker. The things you list don't seem to have been picked for how 'fluffy' they are as much as they seem to have been picked for how uncommon they are.

 

There's a difference between playing a list which corresponds well to the fluff and playing a list which includes options which are often overlooked and fails to take options which are common.

 

The choice to include or fail to include a dreadnought has no is not dictated by fluff. It is exactly as 'fluffy' for a list to have a dreadnought as it is to not have a dreadnought.

 

The choice to play a Daemon Prince over a Lord is not dictated by fluff. There are daemon princes. They do lead warbands. If your warband is lead by a daemon prince, then it would be less fluffy, not more, to put a different HQ at its head on occasion.

 

Posessed, similarly, are not demanded by the fluff. A list does not suddenly represent a chaos warband 'better' for including posessed.

 

The same goes for Plasma Pistols, Obliterators, and Summoned Daemons. Some warbands will use some of those things, others will use all of them, and others will use none. None of those options is any more or less in accordance with the fluff than any other.

 

What you're really asking, here, is whether people handicap themselves in order to prevaricate themselves onto some sort of moral high-ground by asserting that their lists, by virtue of including units which are less common, are more in line with the fluff. This is basically absurd.

 

There are some lists which aren't fluffy. It's true. Thirty Plague Marines led by two Daemon Princes with the Mark of Slaanesh and the Lash of Submission, backed by nine obliterators is definitely pushing the bounds of credulity.

 

A list without Dreads or posessed, though? Or a list with a reasonable number of Obliterators, or (heaven forbid) a Daemon Prince? None of these lists are less fluffy than lists that follow the guidelines you wrote out above, and the assertion that they are is basically nothing less than ill-conceived.

 

Go back to the drawing board on this one, Night Stalker. If you're really looking for fluffy lists, you missed your mark by a mile. If, instead, you're doing what it looks like you're doing--asserting that playing lists which include uncommon choices is somehow superior (and though you claim it is superior because of its fluffiness, a modicum of observation will show that to be nonsense) to playing lists composed primarily of common items--then just stop. That would be little more than trolling.

 

edit:

To put is a slightly different way, the question you're asking is this: are you able to play weaker units or overlook the more powerful ones in order to make your list more fluffy? Further, you give a list of guidelines which, apparently, purport to show whether a player is willing to take weaker units or forgoe stronger ones in order to make a more fluffy army.

 

The problem, is that your guidlines fail to do this. They don't show that a player is willing to play a weaker list for the sake of fluff, because the choices you've presented fail to make a list more fluffy. You have successfully identified a set of weak units that are often avoided and strong units which are often played, but you have failed to establish how using the weaker ones or avoiding the stronger ones make a list more fluffy.

 

The question you're trying to ask is reasonable, but the manner in which you've gone about asking it is bollocks. You fail to establish why weaker units are more fluffy or stronger units are less fluffy (and, in fact, both assertions would be nonsense) and without that as a premise, your post basically fails.

[Seahawk]

A better way would be to ask thusly: Do you play by undivided legions fluff, renegades fluff, or not at all? And then give examples. The reason for the undivided legions bit is because that's all that can be truthfully represented in this codex. For instance:

 

Fluffy Iron Warriors Units

- Obliterators

- Machines (vehicles, dreadnoughts)

- Plague Marines, built and painted as regular IW instead of actual PM models (as they are the best at representing bionics and the like at this time)

- Icon of Chaos Glory on everything, or no icon/mark on anything; however, any of the icons/marks can represent energy-fields, extra bionic limbs, enhanced senses, and the like

- absolutely no daemonic units other than daemon princes and possessed

- model unit champions and hq to have servo-arms, counting them as powerfists

 

Fluffy Alpha Legion Units

- chosen, since only they can infiltrate

- daemon packs, using cultist models and not actual daemon models (as they are the best at representing such units at this time, and the AL don't waste time with daemons other than daemon princes and possessed)

- Icon of Chaos Glory on everything, or no icon/mark on anything

 

Fluffy Night Lords Units

- no daemons (as furies were removed) except for daemon princes and possessed

- alternatively, use raptors as furies and don't give them any ranged upgrades

- lots of bikes

- lots of raptors

- Icon of Chaos Glory on everything, or no icon/mark on anything

 

Fluffy Word Bearers Units

- daemonic units; any, all, and lots (including possessed, who are seen as favored since they've wrested control of a daemon)

- chaos lords w/ mark of tzeentch/sorceror w/ mark of tzeentch & wind/gift of chaos (as these is best for representing the dark apostles enjoying the protection of the dark gods like before or converting others to chaos; daemon weapon isn't necessary, but fun)

- imbalanced (lacking heavy armor completely, using many terminators, only mechanized, etc) or balanced forces

- Icon of Chaos Glory on everything, excepting the use of mark of tzeentch as above

 

Fluffy Black Legion/Renegades Units

- Codex: Chaos Space Marines

[Maladon]

slaaneshi sorceror

always spam never play with one . never there is no sense of building a list to use lash and have it work half the time [because of psychic hoods etc ] .

 

psychic hoods stop daemon princes with lash also..... thus I don't use them either...

 

Thanks to this dex, the store I play at everyone fields at least one psycher now to stop chaos.

[Greysensei]

Gotta be fluff heavy a chaos army in my opinion, just not cricket if not!

 

My personal restrictions are:

 

All: If you can't take the mark, then you can't be in the army!

 

Khorne - No heavy weapons, no special (assault) weapons, no MBT's.

 

Slaanesh - One sorceror equipped with lash per 2000 points. I use the Emperor's Children Coven Apocalypse formations to get my sonic weaponry back.

 

Nurgle - No heavy weapon armed havocs, no assault troops.

 

These armies are supposed to be "fair", although I am converting primarchs to lead them in huge apocalypse games (well my opponent is scratch building the good primarchs, so its all fair!) The only problem is that I am getting disturbingly attracted to obliterators, so it may well be a vanilla force soon (black legion) so I can get all the lovely extras in!

 

Nice to see teh number of fluff chaos players out there!!

[refuse]

i wonder, how many people play fluffy lists this time.

 

I assume you mean non-legion fluff. Non-Cult fluff.

 

If that is your statement, then no. I don't play your fluffy as I play only Emperor's Children, so many of the statements are N/A.

 

ie:

-army is not lead by Daemon Prince all the time

My Army is commanded by a Lord. Who in the previous codex was a DP (due to points) but wears Terminator Armor.

http://forum.emperorschildren.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_29lord.jpg

 

-your sorcerer have non-slaaneshi [edited it: was typo] mark or markless

My army is always Slaanesh.

But my Sorcerer is in Terminator armor, and luckly (due to his fluff) has a force weapon:

http://forum.emperorschildren.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/sorcerer1.jpg

 

-you actually use lord and daemon weapon.

Nope, never will use a daemon weapon.

Not sure it is fluffy, or not. My Lord uses power claws (see above)

 

-you use basic chaos space marines en masse

Never.

Emperor's Children are dedicated to Slaanesh.

Previously I could take CSM and give them the mark, now I have to give them an icon. Won't do it. So I use NoiseMarines without sonics to represent them.

 

-you do not take any oblit

Never have.

 

-you refuse to take suicide terminator squad

Not sure what that means, but my lord/sorcerer are in terminator armor, and use to have chosen units that go with them.

Now, the chosen would have to be 2 squads of elites that accompany them.

http://forum.emperorschildren.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/NMTerminators.jpg

Probably won't use them in this codex as they would have to be torn apart to be used (to many heavy weapons, and they are Noise Weapons per the last codex.

-you take 10 man strong squads in rhino

Never. 6 is sacred, and the only number to be taken.

I do take Rhinos

http://forum.emperorschildren.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_b_commandvehiclefront.jpg

http://forum.emperorschildren.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_b_leftwarpamp.jpg

 

But 6 is sacred (even if costly)

-you take dread

Yes, but not in the new codex. Randomness is not something I think the warriors of perfection (Emperor's Children) would enjoy.

http://forum.emperorschildren.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_paintedDread.jpg

-you take summoned lesser daemons

Nope.

Daemons have never been a part of the 29th Great Company of the Emperor's Children.

I would be even less inclined to take "Lesser Daemons".

I do have a Keeper of Secrets for the army mostly because I collect Keeper's of Secrets

http://forum.emperorschildren.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/keepersonParade.jpg

http://forum.emperorschildren.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_FaceOff.jpg

And a whole daemon army (because I like Slaanesh)

http://forum.emperorschildren.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/daemonarmy~0.jpg

-you take plasma pistols on raptors/zerkers/characters

Actually, I would think Plasma Pistols are not fluffy (depending on your army). Plasma was unstable and not widely used during the Heresy. So Melta would be more likely, with Plasma on Dreads. Also if maintaining things is difficult, plasma is more difficult then melta, so I would assume melta would be more likely to be taken.

 

Also Raptors are not part of the EC (Can't be marked), definitely not Zerkers, and I don't usually upgrade my characters alot. But when I could take chosen with flight I modelled some with Plasma (plasma gun as two plasma pistols) and meltaguns (2 melta pistols)

http://forum.emperorschildren.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/DaemonicFlight.jpg

But they were chosen with Daemonic Flight, or the old possessed with daemonic flight.

-your lord or sorcerer do not have wings

None of my lords or sorcers have wings. Only my DP has wings.

 

DP with wings

http://forum.emperorschildren.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_DPfront.jpg

 

Lords/Sorcerers (not including the ones already shown)

Chaplain

http://forum.emperorschildren.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_b_ecchaplain.jpg

 

Sorcerer:

http://forum.emperorschildren.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_b_lordpowered.jpg

 

Old Lt (now a lord, go figure)

http://forum.emperorschildren.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_b_putthemup.jpg

 

Apoticary (was an LT, now a Lord)

http://forum.emperorschildren.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_ecapothicary.jpg

-you take possessed often

Never. To random. Again, not sure how taking possessed is fluffy. The old fluff mentioned that the marines use to give them selves up to possession, but the new ones are to random, and my EC avoid mutations (except characters).

basicaly - do you try to make list look like 'real fluff wise'?

 

or it is all about winning and use 'the only one true rooster' ?

 

 

this reflection comes after 2500 points battle where i employed 3 man bike [!] squad and 4 10xman chaos space marine squads and 2 lords, and plasma-pistol-equiped-raptors

Again, not sure where you mean fluffy.

The issue comes down to what is fluff, and which fluff.

The new fluff, would indicate that anything is fluffy.

[chillin]

I dunno, Night Stalker. The things you list don't seem to have been picked for how 'fluffy' they are as much as they seem to have been picked for how uncommon they are.

-

I agree.

- How is using a DP unfluffy ? Especially when your army is several thousand years old in "fluff time" and 10+ years old in real time and your undivided lord has assended to undivided DP ?

- I agree with the dual slanny lash..plll-ease, enough already. Esp in non-EC "legion" armies..a "WE" army led by slanny characters..just change your paint scheme and army name already.

- How is being led by a lord any more fluffy then being led by a sorc or DP ? (except for maybe NL's and AL)

- How are oblits unfluffy ? (again maybe except for AL and NL)

- 10 man squads...actually favored #'s would still be more fluffy for cult units.

- dread...how is using or not using a dread fluffy/nonfluffy

- summoned deamon ? See same as dread.

- Plas pistols, why is plas pistols on raptors more fluffy then meltas or flamers ? On characters, my characters have thousands of years of battlefield experince, their tactical experience is too valuable to the army 2 have them hurt or killed in the middle of a battle by their own weop. (how's that for fluff :lol: )

- wings on a lord are sorc, odd point coming from a NL's player ??

- possessed... again why would taking possessed be more fluffy then not.

*

I agree with the basic purpose of the thread, as I said, people that play with no reguard to fluff are missing something IMO, I just think some of the examples are a bit off.

[CastratedCow]

right now am playing with a fluffy BL list with 2 lash sorce [twins sent to find the tree of life at horus order , but in fact they are old EC agents from the times of the legion war ] , oblits [converted fallen ad mech from horus times ] and PM in troops [bL ship bording company] ah veterans in terminators squads , but because there are so few of them I only use 3 man squads [fluff thing].

 

 

Before I go off on this, did I miss the winking smiley that's supposed to let me know this was a joke?