Brother Argos Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 In the run up to the release of the 5th Edition rulebook, I watched a lot of debate and discsussion about the potential changes it would bring. I saw people "giving up" and others "Finding new hope" in the new edition, in the end I decided it would help many people to give some clarity and direction to the changes in 5th Edition and how they would affect the members of the Bolter & Chainsword. Initially I decided some form of guide would be the best approach to the problem and I set about gathering the Moderati of the Bolter & Chainsword together to help create it. With their help and the wonderful art supplied by Mad Scuzzy, Nalro & Bloodsaint we pulled this document together in time to be released just prior to the release of the 5th Edition rulebook (people have literally just started getting their copies in the post as I write this). This guide is meant to be used in conjunction with the 5th Edition rulebook, side by side. If you have a query about a rule, take a look in the guide in the rule section and see if there is any advice that might help. To see what effect the new rules have on your army of choice, then take a look in the armies section at your particular codex, where advice about how to play that army in the 5th edition can be found. Here comes the fun bit, this document is intended as a living document, if you think you can give more, or even better advice, then click on the B&C emblem at the end of the article in question and you will appear on the B&C where you can discuss, disagree, comment, submit or all of the above about that particular article. Given time and discussion, those additions and changes will be added to the guide for other people to benefit from. Eventually we will use the same format to release a guide to the new Codex : Space Marines and give people some help there too. Anyway without further ado: - Shall They Know Fear - The Bolter & Chainsword Guide To 5th Edition Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140329-the-bc-guide-to-space-marines-in-the-5th-edition/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joah from Alberta Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 And just when I was going to give up on B&C (Bolter& Censorship) you guys come up with a *brilliant piece of art ... my hats off to you gentlemen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140329-the-bc-guide-to-space-marines-in-the-5th-edition/#findComment-1621817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 And just when I was going to give up on B&C (Bolter& Censorship) you guys come up with a *brilliant piece of art ... my hats off to you gentlemen.Interesting statement, to my knowledge only non-constructive & posts that are unrelated to the board gets thrown out the airlock. Thank you for the feedback. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140329-the-bc-guide-to-space-marines-in-the-5th-edition/#findComment-1621905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joah from Alberta Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Anyhow, the point is this publication is written clearly, composed beautifully, and a great inspiration for 5th, I absolutely love it (without regret) and thank you. Now let the myriad of plasma rain commence upon the enemies of man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140329-the-bc-guide-to-space-marines-in-the-5th-edition/#findComment-1622345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 *fires off a plasma salute* <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140329-the-bc-guide-to-space-marines-in-the-5th-edition/#findComment-1622372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh_perfesser Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Having read Shall They Know Fear? thoroughly once and reskimmed multiple times, there is one slight oddity of phrasing I am wondering about: Chaos Undivided: Of the fearless units that we have access to, Plaguemarines will probably be the ones least affected by this. For Undivided/unmarked armies, the Icon of Chaos Glory looks a lot better now and is worthy of serious consideration. What did you mean by "this", Nihm? Did you mean 5th edition in general or the "No Retreat!" rule impact on units with the Fearless USR? I think it's the second, but the statement has no context so it's difficult to tell. P.S.: Also posted here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140329-the-bc-guide-to-space-marines-in-the-5th-edition/#findComment-1622918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Thank you, I blame my editors! :) There was supposed to be a line in there drawing a correlation (link) to the article on Morale, under 5th. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140329-the-bc-guide-to-space-marines-in-the-5th-edition/#findComment-1623125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 hmm strange . I tested the same things , saw the same stuff , but have a lot of different views on the game as a whole . for me the game is slower now [you constatly have to re check LoS before deployment , if a unit isnt seen etc] . Also are most of the US/UK game tables rectangles? because they would understand the part about 9 missions . Here most tables are square or almost square [shops size etc same with tournaments] so the different set ups are more or less the same. Also we have huge problems with gaming tables . Just like in the articles the old LoS rules were clear and easy to use [ok with a map , but today all tournaments have those] . Right now we have a lot of terrain that cant actually be used in the 5th[for example most of our forests are patchs of green with removable trees , but only with a few of those ] . Its a huge problem when one considers in a month we have to re build more then 80 tournament tables [for the nationals] and people have to re make tables in shops + anyone lucky enough to own a private table has to do it too[with small flats we have thats generally not a big group] . Am kind of interested why in the csm part no one mentioned lash/no cult armies or why did no one make a tournament 5ed review , but only "friendly" play . Or is that all coming in the future? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140329-the-bc-guide-to-space-marines-in-the-5th-edition/#findComment-1623142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joah from Alberta Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Imo, lash is too dirty to mention. I manage to squeak a line of sight on a 10-man flying eldar squad last game, I lash them 9 inches into a tidy bunch and they're blasted away, even I felt a tinge dirty. Everyone is entitled their point of view, this is the beauty of our mankind. (Notice how wonderfully our complete spherical conscience radiates into the fabric of space/time and keeps all the spaceships and daemons away from our world.) Pertaining to tables, I have a 4X4 accompanied by a 2X4 leaf. Most games we play are 1700 pts on a 4X6. 6X6 would be too big, ideally it should be played on a hexagon table 5X5 maybe ... but try finding that table. We have to make the best with the new terrain rules. If we must build then let us innovate while we're at it. I know my terrain building has vastly improved since I first began, having to build more tables and terrain will provide an opportunity for greatness. I'm a published author, and I believe the essence of the composition will always outlive the right/wrong debate. (Heck look at Madonna's Biography that was contraband and sold millions.) This B&C 5th edition guide simply rocks!!! I've already recommended it to my gaming-circle as a facilitation to fifth. Hey, the more they know, the less I have to remember ... Thanks again and Cheers, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140329-the-bc-guide-to-space-marines-in-the-5th-edition/#findComment-1623535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
refuse Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 My Opinion: The inability to "protect" icons now has a huge impact on Chaos. If the icon bearer is killed, you loose the benefit. So this means several things. 1) If I have the icon of Tzeentch, I would want to roll the wounds/saves for that model last. As prior to removing that model, my other models get the invuln save. Not sure if the icon removal changes the save during the round, or after the round. 2) If I have the icon of Slaanesh, and I am fighting I6 and I5 models, and the icon is removed do my models fight the round at I5 or I4? 3) Same as #1 for Nurgle. Saves for wounds for the increased Toughness get removed at the point the icon is removed, or end of turn? Same for Khorne, do you loose the attacks as soon as the icon is removed or after. This was not in the article, but the wound removal is a major change in 5th. The fact that Chaos now uses icons instead of marks, means under 5th icons are not going to be the last thing removed, and putting the icon on your AC isn't necessarily the best idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140329-the-bc-guide-to-space-marines-in-the-5th-edition/#findComment-1623561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joah from Alberta Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Those are some valid points refuse. I was thinking that the new wound allocation makes the PF obsolete. Say you have 6 plague marines, 1 of which is aspiring with PF, 2 with plasma. You take three wounds, you can temporarily assign them to the three marines without upgrades. If you take 4 wounds, you must assign a dice to a plasma. 6 wounds, and your aspiring is taking a hit. Having a low hitting PF on an aspiring plague may make sense from the "already low init" point of view. But now your aspiring is more vulnerable and only hitting twice base, three times on the charge. Your plague is designed to take the charge, so tactically he's usually hitting only twice. And if you miss half the time, that's only 1 strength 8 hit per turn. Better now to add the points in more ablative wounds (to better protect icons and special weapons) and count on your support-fire elements to work in conjunction with the new rules of no consolidation new combats upon massacre. You can still have the PF, they come stock on oblits and they're non-affected by the PF nerf. Although take it from me, just don't use oblits to charge a monolith, it's never pretty. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140329-the-bc-guide-to-space-marines-in-the-5th-edition/#findComment-1624800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladon Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 What this tripe about powerfists? big deal you lose the extra attack with the bolt pistol, most champions have two attacks apiece, the lost of the single attack shouldn't be worried about... As to not having twin lashes up there, I don't think this was meant for just tourneys, and obviously your gaming group don't know how to counter twin lashes, if you keep bringing it up that they can win games by themselves. An plasma pistols are far better now then they were in the previous addition,(actually all pistols got betterIMPO) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140329-the-bc-guide-to-space-marines-in-the-5th-edition/#findComment-1625513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 the lost of the single attack shouldn't be worried about... well the math says its different . now on a charge a normal asp had a chance to almost kill a MC , 3/4 meq etc . he was also good on the defense [3A ] . right now if you hit half the time and auto wound on +2 if you get charge you kill 1 meq ... and then your opponent picks which dude gets hit by the fist <_< its even worse on the charge . no even do you get a less attacks then before , but if your charging a semi decent hth unit [am not talking genestealer or harli etc] , there is a chance that your own fist guy is going to die to normal attacks from your opponent . we are like WFB [but without save mod.] a lot of units have real problems with auto breaking in hth if they are not led by an HQ .. Say you have 6 plague marines, 1 of which is aspiring with PF, 2 with plasma. IMO it only proves that having small squads in the 5th really sucks . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140329-the-bc-guide-to-space-marines-in-the-5th-edition/#findComment-1625906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joah from Alberta Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Very true ... PF for more ablatives it is then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140329-the-bc-guide-to-space-marines-in-the-5th-edition/#findComment-1626747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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