Lady_Canoness Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Ever since I started playing Chaos Marines I have been drawn to the Chaos Sorcerer. These figures strike me as cold, ruthelessly efficient, manipulative, charismatic, and very, very intelligent. Yet I find sorcerers and many other psykers in the game (other than Farseers) or used only rarely because they are outshined by more teasing HQ options and units that can fulfil similar roles. Admittedly psykers tend to be on the expensive side of things: a Sorcerer is 100pts after all, and to get anything good for him you have to pump a lot more into him, and the cost is not always justified. So what do you do? Do you make the 200 - 250+pt monster with 3 powers and a 4+ inv save, or do you buy the one power that you think is worth your while? Do you even bring a Sorcerer? Chaos has the most devestating direct-damage powers in 40k, but are we willing to make use of them? What is keeping the Sorcerer from being the HQ of choice? Lords and DPs too cheap in comparison, or does the Sorcerer just not fit it? I would like to know why you use one, or why you don't. What powers do you use? Wind of Chaos with Warptime and wings? Bolt of Change? Warptime and Gift of Chaos? the Lash? Where do Sorcerers sit in your game? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Invictus Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Honestly I field a sorceror with lash and a maybe gift of chaos to eat up a few left over pts. Stick him in a unit that will benefit from lashing things around, and goof around that way. Though I do also take a daemon Prince as well (2500 pt games per player... 4 players). He's not exactly my end all be all, but he does assist things, such as throwing jump pack troops and bikes into dangerous terrain, moving units into optimum ordinance patterns, etc. Plus, I try to keep my units in multiples of 3 (IW thing, sort of), there is usually room in one of my rhino squads for him to hang out near/in. Forse weapon is fun too. Yeah they are expensive, but they do come standard with a force weapon, an inv, decent ws, bs, and ccws. But compared to the lord, who for the same pts can potentially have 10+ attacks.... Long story short, the chaos sorceror is not shiny enough. -Kris Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1621945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 What is keeping the Sorcerer from being the HQ of choice? Lords and DPs too cheap in comparison, or does the Sorcerer just not fit it? I would like to know why you use one, or why you don't. What powers do you use? Wind of Chaos with Warptime and wings? Bolt of Change? Warptime and Gift of Chaos? the Lash? Where do Sorcerers sit in your game? I believe that what keeps Sorcerers from being the HQ of choice is, the fact that you have to centre your entire strategy around his power(s) (e.g. Lash) to make him truly shine. It is his power(s) that directly defines his role in the list and these are restricting him somewhat, because where a Chaos Lord can be either a: gimp-supporter (non DW), gunline sniper (Deathscreamer), or a CC monster (DW) - or even a little bit of everything, the Sorcerer isn't as versatile. In my NL I've tried fielding one Sorcerer with Jump pack and WoC. Alternatively I've also tried using a terminator armoured spawn-maker. Neither performed very well. Then here's the problem with psychic hoods and various anti-psyker abilities that most lists have. I'll see about using a Sorcerer in my Slaaneshi pain cult, come winter. My 2 Kraks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1621950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Morgrim Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Sorcerer Lords is what has started me in 40k!.....I love the drawing in the codex and I just like the idea of a warrior-mage....so i am going with one in termie gear and a few powers......will let you know how i go! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1621956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neigorath Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Well, I tend to use a quite expensive Sorcerer Lord in my current list. Warp Time, Bolt of Change, Combi-Melta, Mark of Tzeench and Terminator armour, it comes up to 200 pts. Might become more useful in the next edition when he isn't such a sure way for the enemy to get VP's. But yeah, he usually holds his own against most foes and forces my opponent to direct resources to neutralizing him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1622094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I like using a Sorceror in Termie armor with Doombolt, cheap and killy. Leads my Black legion force to victory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1622145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 If you're paying for a 200+ point sorcerer, consider Ahriman! He comes with all the best psychic powers (minus lash and rot) and can use 3 (count them 3) per turn! with Inferno Bolts on his bolt pistol and a force weapon, he's a knockout! When I do use him (rarely at 1500) he performs well (turning three termigants into Spawn in one turn? awesome) but more often than not takes a perils of the warp wound before the game is over. When I don't use Ahriman (often), the termi armor nurgle sorce with rot is a good one, also mark of tzeench warptime, wings and wind is solid, even better on a DP though.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1622203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I use a cheapy sorceror with wings and wind or gift of chaos. Always a fun time, when I use him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1622204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I often use a cheapy sorc., undivided, w/ wings and doombolt . Been using him since codex csm 3.5 came out. He's my DP's Lt. so to speak. I use him in lower pt games or when I run a more shooty less hth army. I like the model, like the ideal of a chaos sorc. too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1622269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptain Von Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Funny you should say that. I nearly always take a Sorcerer with the Lash, Wings and a personal Icon. Provided he has some Raptors to absorb incoming fire, he works quite well as a Lash-platform, moving stuff around so my two flamers (in the Raptor squad) can do the most damage, or dumping a key target within pistol/assault range, or within Rapid Fire range of a supporting CSM squad... I use a Sorcerer rather than a Daemon Prince because the tables I play on are not always the best in terms of cover, and the Daemon Prince tends to be found out and shot at rather often; it doesn't help that he's pricier and has that combat potential, so I worry and fret about not getting the most out of him. Whenever I've used a Chaos Lord, he's ended up falling on his own Daemon Sword... so these days I start with a Sorcerer and factor in a Generic Greater Daemon for the melee beating. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1622301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Black gobbo Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Well i like to use the following one with a Lash winged sorceror: --Wings, Winds of Chaos, Warptime, MoT. A template 4+ you die weapon that rerolls to wound and hit with 5 power weapon attacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1622711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARKTROOPER Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I don't use one very often but when I do i tend to give him wind of chaos and stick him with a bunch of terminators and let them rip up my opponents army... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1622754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graycon2000 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I Like to take an expensive Tzeentch sorcerer in terminator armour with warptime, gift of Chaos, and Bolt of Change, and a familiar. It's expensive but you do have to love that 2+ armour and 2+ invunerable save, after you add in the natural 5+, then termi 5+, then mark of Tzeentch. I do have to confess that I havent played many games with my Chaos yet but so far he has done well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1622770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joah from Alberta Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I'm currently working on 2 sorceress' (wh't th' plural??). All of my work is exclusive to worldeaters.net. They have wings so according to the new faq they can ride in rhino?? Place them with the plague and you got a couple hags that love their meat pestilently raw. Psychic hood isn't the problem, it's the darn Eldar (roll 3d for psychic) but Eldar's going to take a hit in 5th, wyche's imo well deserved. Cheers, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1622787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Primary leader my sorceror is. He has a MoS and a plasma pistol. This makes him brutally fast, the force weapon is quite deadly and the plasma pistol can deal with tanks while doombolt beats up infantry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1622855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Graycon, so you know your invulnerable save is only 4+, not 2+. Can never get a 2+. Unlike Fantasy, saves don't stack. Thus you have a 5+ inv, whether from the character or armor, and then you add 1 for the mark of tzeentch for the 4+. Zeller, I hadn't thought of using him that way. Maybe I will and see how it goes... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1622931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskie Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I'm pro sorceror. They can come in cheaper than a Lord or Deamon Prince and I find I don't really need WS 6 or higher. I prefer to not get into H2H with something that strong if possible. I'd like to try two sorcerors in a slightly larger points game. I think you can have a lot of fun with them and my current dream 5th Edition tournament army is lead by a sorceror who to my warped mind is the best HQ option available, but I'm biased. Deamon Princes always seem to be the most popular but in 5th Edition may find they die pretty quick, with wings and decent cover they can usually make it into H2H. I will try out my DW lord this weekend, but I don't like the zero attacks possibility, the sorceror just seems versatile and sneaky... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1623061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Graycon you are totally doing the invul save wrong. A Tz sorc in termi armor has a 4+ invul, NOT a 2+ invul. I don't see how you got that past anyone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1623891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spreader Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Graycon you are totally doing the invul save wrong. A Tz sorc in termi armor has a 4+ invul, NOT a 2+ invul. I don't see how you got that past anyone. The only way I can see him referring to this asa 2+ save is due to the 4+inv being rerolled due to warptime, thus becoming basically a 2+ inv save. My sorceror is currently modeled with a bolt pistol, jetpack and force weapon. Buy him MoT and the Last and you've got one of the only characters we have that can buff the rest of the army. Something that I believe is very valuable (think farseer or marine chappy buffs). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1634041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Pie Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Graycon you are totally doing the invul save wrong. A Tz sorc in termi armor has a 4+ invul, NOT a 2+ invul. I don't see how you got that past anyone. The only way I can see him referring to this asa 2+ save is due to the 4+inv being rerolled due to warptime, thus becoming basically a 2+ inv save. My sorceror is currently modeled with a bolt pistol, jetpack and force weapon. Buy him MoT and the Last and you've got one of the only characters we have that can buff the rest of the army. Something that I believe is very valuable (think farseer or marine chappy buffs). Warptime does not allow you to reroll armor saves, only hit and wound rolls. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1634129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 The only way I can see him referring to this asa 2+ save is due to the 4+inv being rerolled due to warptime, thus becoming basically a 2+ inv save. - OK new rule, at least glance over the codex before interperting rules and posting them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1634249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarInHeaven Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 i use a slaanesh sorserer whit mount and lash (my friend was realy pist when i made his devestators comme out of there fortification, into the same building as my sorserer and than chargred him into them :D ) also nice agenst those nasty eldar snipers (out cover, whit 15 mariens in front of them...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1642337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukka Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 I have been playing with a Sorc more than any recently. played one with doombolt yesterday, no wings. nice and cheap. stuck him in a squad with 10 marines. killed some stuff. no complaints. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1642366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladon Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 I may now use a sorceror again, first attempts didn't fair to well.... first time trying lash and oops perils of the warp.... sonaof*****. May try it with mark of tzeentch with bolt of change and warp time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1642371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 I would not go with MoTz, BoC and warptime, just too expensive and the WT really doesn't make a sorc that much better in HTH. If you want WT and BoC use a DP, then it's worth it. the nice thing bout sorc is that you can keep them cheap and still have a usefull HQ. If your going to spend a bunch of pts, lord or DP are better options. IMO anway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140397-chaos-sorcerer/#findComment-1642451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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