Yukka Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 The BT Codex has smoke rules in it that state that smoke counts shots received as glancing, whereas my C:CSM codex refers to the BBB. The BBB says to always treat the codex as the proper rules so is this a oversight or does Black Templar smoke use the old rules for now? There is no mention in the errata docs either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/141952-no-vehicle-cover-saves-for-black-templar-smoke/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Until there is a new FAQ that changes it, or a new Black Templar codex, use the rules in the templar codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/141952-no-vehicle-cover-saves-for-black-templar-smoke/#findComment-1641406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukka Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 cool thanks, I searched around after i posted and found mention of page 62 of the 5th edition rules. says some armies use different versions of smoke launchers and refer to the codex. glad i found that, i dont play them but my friend does and he hasnt got the new rulebook yet so hes relying on me not to screw it up... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/141952-no-vehicle-cover-saves-for-black-templar-smoke/#findComment-1641410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetEzekial Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 It's the same for DA and BA as well, and maybe a few others. Personally, I'd prefer to keep the original version. I'd rather make snything an auto glance, rather than risk if being completely blown up if that 'cover save' is failed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/141952-no-vehicle-cover-saves-for-black-templar-smoke/#findComment-1641430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 It's the same for DA and BA as well, and maybe a few others. Personally, I'd prefer to keep the original version. I'd rather make snything an auto glance, rather than risk if being completely blown up if that 'cover save' is failed. No comment on DA, but my BA codex says for Smoke Launchers "see the rulebook". So, we get the cover save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/141952-no-vehicle-cover-saves-for-black-templar-smoke/#findComment-1641435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber_Wulf Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 basically any codex published that was specifically designed to be a 5th ed dex. ie. as far back as eldar i believe. will all have references to the rulebook instead of its own rules, and according to the new system, codexes overide the rulebook which is a reverese on the previous situation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/141952-no-vehicle-cover-saves-for-black-templar-smoke/#findComment-1643391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praeger Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 and according to the new system, codexes overide the rulebook which is a reverese on the previous situation. Actually thats been the system all along. Nothing has chaned here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/141952-no-vehicle-cover-saves-for-black-templar-smoke/#findComment-1643700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 and according to the new system, codexes overide the rulebook which is a reverese on the previous situation. Actually thats been the system all along. Nothing has chaned here. Not really. In 4th, any form of a Universal Special Rule in a codex that pre-dated the 4th ed rulebook was automatically overridden by the USR rules in the 4th ed BBB. Also, is there a single place in the entire 5th ed rulebook that says codex rules override BBB rules, other than within the text bubble for smoke launchers? As far as I'm concerned, BBB rules take precedence except in the case of smokes, where the BBB specifically says different races' versions of smokes sometimes work differently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/141952-no-vehicle-cover-saves-for-black-templar-smoke/#findComment-1645211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetEzekial Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Also, is there a single place in the entire 5th ed rulebook that says codex rules override BBB rules, other than within the text bubble for smoke launchers? As a rule in general? No. It's always a specific mention (like smoke launchers are). "Codex always trumps" is a conception leftover from some interview, or some such, with a GW staffer, many many moons ago, that was never (IIRC/AFAIK) printed in a rulebook. GW's other general policy has always been that printing order mattered, with newer always trumping older (unless stated in any specific rules). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/141952-no-vehicle-cover-saves-for-black-templar-smoke/#findComment-1645386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 DH get the glancing rule aswell. If i remember rightly there are one or two other occasions where i noticed "See codex" type stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/141952-no-vehicle-cover-saves-for-black-templar-smoke/#findComment-1645389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaligulaX Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 As a rule in general? No. It's always a specific mention (like smoke launchers are). "Codex always trumps" is a conception leftover from some interview, or some such, with a GW staffer, many many moons ago, that was never (IIRC/AFAIK) printed in a rulebook. GW's other general policy has always been that printing order mattered, with newer always trumping older (unless stated in any specific rules). Not true actually. The 5th Ed. Rulebook mentions several times that a rule in a Codex will take precedence over the main book. Here are a few examples: beginning of the USR section, it states: "...if any of the Codexes include one of these special rules and the rule is different, the one in the Codex takes precedence (representing how the general special rule applies to that specific race)." in the Reference section at the back of the book: "...in the event of any contradiction between this section and any of the individual codexes, the codexes always take precedence." This is of course in addition to the aforementioned bit about smoke launchers in the vehicle section that ends with: "As normal, the rules in the Codex take precedence." The codex is king, because it makes it easier for GW to update new armies without having to worry about the ramifications the changes will have on all the other armies. I know that's not how it used to be, but I think GW realized this way is MUCH easier. Try asking a 13th company player how his USRs work, or a Daemonhunter what statline his assault cannon has. Better to just say "the Codex take precedence!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/141952-no-vehicle-cover-saves-for-black-templar-smoke/#findComment-1650548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetEzekial Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 And those are all specific mentions of the only times a codex will override what the rulebook says. Just because a few places say that a codex will override it does not mean it applies to each and every part of the rules. "Codex trumps', only when the rulebook says it does. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/141952-no-vehicle-cover-saves-for-black-templar-smoke/#findComment-1650565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 And those are all specific mentions of the only times a codex will override what the rulebook says. Just because a few places say that a codex will override it does not mean it applies to each and every part of the rules. "Codex trumps', only when the rulebook says it does. "As normal..." seems to disagree with you, zeek. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/141952-no-vehicle-cover-saves-for-black-templar-smoke/#findComment-1650877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotSoup Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 And those are all specific mentions of the only times a codex will override what the rulebook says. Just because a few places say that a codex will override it does not mean it applies to each and every part of the rules. "Codex trumps', only when the rulebook says it does. "As normal..." seems to disagree with you, zeek. Indeed. "As normal, the rules in the Codex take precedence." Seems to me it says "As normal", in which case, it means "like always" as well. So, Codex beats the rulebook. So, the BT do NOT get 4+ cover saves. Sorry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/141952-no-vehicle-cover-saves-for-black-templar-smoke/#findComment-1651006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Nugz Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 So the DA, BA, and BT get the special smoke launchers? How exactly do they work. Don't they just down grade from penetrating hit to glancing, and if they only get glancing do they down grade further? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/141952-no-vehicle-cover-saves-for-black-templar-smoke/#findComment-1656190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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