And They Shall Know No Fear

[Captain Idaho]

so we all know that there is no And They Shall Know No Fear in the new rulebook so we are told we have to use the new FAQs. so with that knowledge we know that the rule allows Space Marines to automatically rally, so when we look at the rulebook it states that when a unit rallys it gets a 3" move to re-deploy but cannot elsewise move in the movement phase, but the FAQ states that those with And They Shall Know No Fear can move normally.

 

so my question is; do they benefit from the 3" redeployment move and then can move normally, or does the fact they can move normally replace this?

 

im inclined to feel that RAW indicates that they can get the extra 3" move, but the intention of the rules are that the normal movement is designed to replace it.

 

what do other people think of this?

[Cyber_Wulf]

they pass the rally test and get act totally normally that turn. as if they hadnt moved yet.

 

ie. they rally, move 6" get run shooting at full range with rapid fire and get to fire heavy weapons too.

[Captain Idaho]

but i you look at the rules for regrouping, it states that a unit that passes its rally test gets to move 3". since the Space Marines automatically pass, they are able to get this move surely?

 

not that i would use it, as it doesnt hold well with me!

[HiveFleetEzekial]

The rule has been changed... and the current SM FAQ includes it so that it isn't 'missing' until the new 'dex comes out.

(it mentions nothing about auto-rallying. Nor does the DA version)

 

 

http://uk.games-workshop.com/news/errata/a...2008_SM_FAQ.pdf

[Captain Idaho]

actually word for word it states this:

 

Space Marines automatically pass tests to

regroup, and can take tests even if the squad has

been reduced to less than 50% by casualties,

though all other criteria apply. If Space Marines

are caught by a sweeping advance, they are not

destroyed and will instead continue to fight

normally. If this happens then the unit is subject

to the No Retreat! rule in this round of close

combat and may therefore lose additional

casualties. Usually troops that regroup may not

move normally and always count as moving

whether they do or not, but these restrictions do

not apply to models with this special rule.

 

iv highlighted the appropiate part. so it does count as automatically passing tests to regroup, hence my confusion with regards to the 3" move.

[nighthawks]

you don't move the 3", here's why:

 

marines auto-pass the TEST - the results of passing or failing the test are listed on page 46. the FAQ ATSKNF quote (verbatim from 4th ed. BBB) covers this in the last sentence.

 

So, when a unit regroups, it can immediately move up to 3" and counts as moving for shooting purposes. troops that regroup may not otherwise move, but may run and/or assault. this restriction to normal movement rules would be the "usually troops that regroup may not move normally and always count as moving" part of the quote.

 

but as "these restrictions dos not apply" to C:SM, then you just turn around and move normally (per movement section, NOT 3") or shoot heavies/ other no-movement weapons.

[garreth]

I think this

Usually troops that regroup may not

move normally and always count as moving

whether they do or not, but these restrictions do

not apply to models with this special rule.

 

points that, they pass test as normal, than get 3" as normal (all this actions done as part of regroup). And than due to quoted sentence, they can move as normal, because

A unit falling back can attempt to regroup by taking a

Regroup test in the Movement phase just before they

move.

 

it's two different actions - 3" move after regroup and normal movement.

[Captain Idaho]

thats my dilema. regardless, i wont do that anyway, but just thinking about what happens if a ramdom GT opponent tries to use it.

[nighthawks]

it's two different actions - 3" move after regroup and normal movement.

Units falling back don't get to move normally, weather they know fear or not. if the regrouping test is failed or disallowed, the unit moves a random, compuslary distance toward the back edge of the board.

 

if they are allowed to and then pass a regroup test, then they are instructed on another restricted, abnormal movement.

 

space marines are allowed to move normally, unlike other units. normal movement would, by definition, be as defined in the movement phase rules for infantry OR in the rules for the specific type of unit they are if not regular infantry OR in the army list section for the unit if they have a special rule concerning movement (slow+purposeful, move through cover, etc...).

 

also, space marines do not count as moving after regrouping. if they meet the requirements to shoot (coherency and all that) then they need not move at all, and may fire weapons that require zero movement in that phase.

 

I feel like I am repeating myself, but I think it is a valid distinction: normal movement is very different from the prescribed movement of falling back and regrouping. ATSKNF is clear in specifying that marines are not effected by these restrictions to normal movement. there is no reason a unit would get a 3" bump as a bonus for regrouping before being alowed to move normally, stated, implied, nor do I think intended.

[ShinyRhino]

I'd have to agree with nighthawks.

In my limited understanding of how it works, you follow this process:

 

Normal units:

1. Unit falls back.

2. Unit checks for a regroup by rolling the dice.

3. If successful, the unit gets the 3" consolidation move, and counts as having moved.

 

Marines:

1. Unit falls back.

2. Unit automatically passes test to regroup.

3. INSTEAD of the normal 3" consolidation move, Marines get a full normal movement phase. They can stand still, or they can move. You choice as to what they do. The 3" move is irrelevant, as it would be a detriment (due to the automatic counts-as-moved status it comes with) to the Marines, not a bonus.

 

Just my personal thought process on it.