Alpha Legion Questions

[ProtoClone]

Hi,

 

Have been reading the book "Legion" and am really inspired to play AL. What I want to know is if they have rules to help reflect their unique style of warfare? I understand that the army is going to play vastly different from the way they are portraied in the book. But I am curious to how they play in game.

[chillin]

Or old dex had rules for AL but our new lame ass dex has none. We still get infiltrators and you can use daemons as cultist and probably do other things to represent AL. An AL player will probably come by and tell you more.

[Brother Aristeo]

No chillin, you pretty much said it all. The new Codex does not allow an Alpha Legion player to make an army the way we used to, that's for sure. There are currently NO special rules for any particular army in the new Chaos Codex at all.

 

However, the Alpha Legion is well-known for its tactics on the battlefield. An ideal force would allow you to hit the enemy on all sides with highly coordinated attacks, so army selection is the key.

 

You can find more information at The Serpent's Lair Forums.

[DuskRaider]

My best advice would be to wait for new Space Marine Codex and use that for Alpha Legion... at least, that's my plan.

[Espada Azul]

There's a little blurb of a particular Alpha Legion warband in the Siege of Vraks part I, so that can serve as a template for your 'basic' Alpha Legion army. There's little in way of customization you could do using the Chaos SM codex though, but 'historically' (in the eyes of the Imperium) the AL were a Chaos Undivided legion anyway, so you could use the stuff available in the CSM codex without raising too many eyebrows (though I'd think Obliterators are a big no-no).

[Forward Operative]

Alpha Legion would not use as many daemonic possession options that other units would use. Our lesser daemons would actually be cultists coming from the sewers to attack where needed. The better stat line reflects their possessed nature.

 

Obliterators, Possessed and Defilers are pretty much out. AL would be Chaos Marines with MoCU, Chosen Marines with MoCU, Lesser Daemons(Cultists), Chaos Marine Bikers, Raptors(would look more like regular Assault Marines), Chaos Bikes, Predators, Havoc Squads, etc. I have considered putting 2 Khorne Berzerker squads in and modelling them as Alpha Legion Combat Specialists (normal Chaos Marines wielding Bolt Pistol and CCW)

 

To make it fluffy, you could take two identical HQs.

[Senseilord Ashahara]

there's no bar to playing AL as a normal csm list, as with more or less any legion/warband.

At the end of it all, your Legion is a reflection or your style and state of mind.

[Eetion]

Plus, 10'000 years is a very long time.

My own warband has beento the eye and uses enforced possession as punishment for failure. Defilers are but possessed machines, so perfectly reasonable given the warband. Obliterators... again its a virus... The AL will go to any and all means to 'get the drop on the enemy'.

 

So you can technicly use any army, but to stay true to teh fluff, avoid daemons, take infiltrators and chosen and other 'suprise'units where you make the opponent react to you....

 

The Alpha Moudus Operandi is frequently mistaken but to attack from every direction in every conceivable way.

[Brother Aristeo]

Eetion, I really like your idea of using forced possession as a means of punishment.

 

That's wicked! :devil:

[Nakuth]

So you can technicly use any army, but to stay true to teh fluff, avoid daemons, take infiltrators and chosen and other 'suprise'units where you make the opponent react to you....

 

Tell me, Eetion, is there any fluff you could think of that could possibly justify using a greater daemon in an AL warband? It is just that, with the re-release of the Dark Elves, and the War Hydra, I kind of had an idea for using said Hydra model as a GD.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

p.s. sorry to thread hijack.

[Eetion]

So you can technicly use any army, but to stay true to teh fluff, avoid daemons, take infiltrators and chosen and other 'suprise'units where you make the opponent react to you....

 

Tell me, Eetion, is there any fluff you could think of that could possibly justify using a greater daemon in an AL warband? It is just that, with the re-release of the Dark Elves, and the War Hydra, I kind of had an idea for using said Hydra model as a GD.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

p.s. sorry to thread hijack.

 

Your warband turned to Chaos over the last 10'000 years. Its a long time to stay loyal. You still fight for the cause yet use Chaos a s a tool.

Alpha Legion ave no qualms about using Chaos and all the tools it offers... As long as the end goal is achieved.

[Senseilord Ashahara]

Yeah I also saw the Hydra and concidered using it.

Why wouldnt the AL bond a Daemon for their own ends?

[the jeske]

ah and then use it in every game till a new FAQ or dex comes out [5+ years of gaming ] . AL using demons is rare or special . From the fluff point of view they shouldnt use demons [hard to summon unless there is a huge invasion] or oblits or possesed .

[Eetion]

ah and then use it in every game till a new FAQ or dex comes out [5+ years of gaming ] . AL using demons is rare or special . From the fluff point of view they shouldnt use demons [hard to summon unless there is a huge invasion] or oblits or possesed .

 

From a fluff point of view they use whatever resources they have. For some that may be using possession from cultist support, others its covert manipulation o a minor level.

Their doctine is to attack in every direction in every conceivable way.

Besides possessed are bound and less reliant on EoT/warp to maintain their hold on reality... Once done they stay.

A number of the AL players use Generic Daemons to represent cultists ambushing.

[the jeske]

Once done they stay.

yes they also die very fast.

 

 

A number of the AL players use Generic Daemons to represent cultists ambushing.

and I use codex sm , being forced to use "counts as" and a bland codex doesnt change the official fluff.

[Eetion]

And the official fluff is that AL have cultists.... We just have to find new methods to represent that.

And what exactly is the Lifespan of a possessed? If your so sure of they die fast. Daemons I whole heartedly agree. Inquisitors dont seem to have a problem with bound daemons do they.

[the jeske]

And the official fluff is that AL have cultists.... We just have to find new methods to represent that.

with "counts as"? well counts as is not seen as a good or viable option here . Otherwise why use FW models when you can plop a plastic dragon and says its a siege dreadnought or a drop pod . imagine that sm droping on wings of real dragons . the speed of the descent makes them scater and the dragons breath weapon could be the sb/combi weapon .

 

yes , but those are bound demons and even there the hosts wither very fast [read fluff in the INQ game ] . People truelly possessed [no self control demon is in full control] do happen , but they are very rare as the demon has to find a way to sustain itself outside of the warp [ in the fluff we havent seen anything lower then a demon prince to do that . and I mean a non mortal demon prince ] .

 

And what exactly is the Lifespan of a possessed?

as possesion outside of the BL is very rarelly willing its one battle/siege/attack . After that they either die [demon wins rips the corps or takes control of the body and has to be killed] . Possesed amonge the BL live a lot more . But thats because Abadon and the deals he made with chaos demons after the legion war .

[Eetion]

And the official fluff is that AL have cultists.... We just have to find new methods to represent that.

with "counts as"? well counts as is not seen as a good or viable option here . Otherwise why use FW models when you can plop a plastic dragon and says its a siege dreadnought or a drop pod . imagine that sm droping on wings of real dragons . the speed of the descent makes them scater and the dragons breath weapon could be the sb/combi weapon .

 

yes , but those are bound demons and even there the hosts wither very fast [read fluff in the INQ game ] . People truelly possessed [no self control demon is in full control] do happen , but they are very rare as the demon has to find a way to sustain itself outside of the warp [ in the fluff we havent seen anything lower then a demon prince to do that . and I mean a non mortal demon prince ] .

 

And what exactly is the Lifespan of a possessed?

as possesion outside of the BL is very rarelly willing its one battle/siege/attack . After that they either die [demon wins rips the corps or takes control of the body and has to be killed] . Possesed amonge the BL live a lot more . But thats because Abadon and the deals he made with chaos demons after the legion war .

 

Its not so much counts as, but changing what it represents. Its hardly a similar analogy, by criticising Alpha Legion players for using our hand made and converted cultists for 4th edition and then wanting to find a realistic and feasable way to use them. I will continue to use Cultists to reflect that which 5th edition has teken from us.

 

And i will concede Possessed will likely be short, but Possession is by no means certain to be short, only if the individual is unable to hold teh essence of the Daemon... In which they become more Spawn Like (another fluff reason people)

And what more appropriate punishment for an AL than Spawndom.

 

 

Unless your implying you took Legion at face value and the AL are actually totally loyal.... then that would be silly (although not entirely unprobable for a small number of warbands).

With travel in the warp and Cultist support Daemons and Possession can be justified.

 

Of course im willing to admit (and have said in my first post) if you want a more purist force steer away from the Daemonic entities, but anything can be justified. Especially as there is currently a Black Crusade and the AL would probably snap up any advantages that it would offer... defilers, possessed and daemonic vehicles... whatever they can get their mits on.

[Senseilord Ashahara]

The fluff in the previous codex *goes misty eyed for a moment, lost in nostalgic revelry* pointed out, amoungst other things, possessed Alpha Legion represent Legionaries with Daemonic Abilities.

Fluff dissodence solved and I can field possessed again.

I don't though.

I'm just a helpful chap.

[Lay]

possessed Alpha Legion represent Legionaries with Daemonic Abilities.

Nah, that was the Night Lords. AL were said to get the regular ones and no word about them being reluctant about possession.

[the jeske]

And i will concede Possessed will likely be short, but Possession is by no means certain to be short, only if the individual is unable to hold teh essence of the Daemon... In which they become more Spawn Like (another fluff reason people)

And what more appropriate punishment for an AL than Spawndom.

yes but there are also psychological problems . the AL see themselfs as superior to all beings in the w40k universe [what doesnt mean they can show respect to a mighty demon prince ]. For possession to work [and I mean here the kind when the demon doesnt kill his host ala champion being poped by a greater demon] the host has to be willing [or at least druged] . Otherwise the inner fight between the demon and the host will either end in demon wining [well lets say it happens to non sm a lot ] the host dieing [when the host has strong will] partial possesion [when the control of the body switches from demon to host etc ] . Now as we are talking fluff here , it would be really hard to find a willing number of AL that would like to share themselfs with demons . And as punishment goes . If the host keeps the upper hand [and to work with other csm brother is should, because demons are too hard to control ] , then its like making criminals work in an experimental weapon factory .

 

but anything can be justified

well its true [dragon as drop pods , skimer driving sm/csm etc ] . only that something happens once , doesnt mean it happens all the time . Other wise one could build a WB armies out of cult troops and say that those are WB renegades fleeing from their own brethern , but still doing chaos work . also it would give nice options to play a double lash , pms , oblits WB army .

[Eetion]

And i will concede Possessed will likely be short, but Possession is by no means certain to be short, only if the individual is unable to hold teh essence of the Daemon... In which they become more Spawn Like (another fluff reason people)

And what more appropriate punishment for an AL than Spawndom.

yes but there are also psychological problems . the AL see themselfs as superior to all beings in the w40k universe [what doesnt mean they can show respect to a mighty demon prince ]. For possession to work [and I mean here the kind when the demon doesnt kill his host ala champion being poped by a greater demon] the host has to be willing [or at least druged] . Otherwise the inner fight between the demon and the host will either end in demon wining [well lets say it happens to non sm a lot ] the host dieing [when the host has strong will] partial possesion [when the control of the body switches from demon to host etc ] . Now as we are talking fluff here , it would be really hard to find a willing number of AL that would like to share themselfs with demons . And as punishment goes . If the host keeps the upper hand [and to work with other csm brother is should, because demons are too hard to control ] , then its like making criminals work in an experimental weapon factory .

 

Ok... so drugged, fair point. Either way, the individual doesnt get a say.... Drugged, hypnosis, either way, its used as punishment. How its done an the method used is up to the individual. Any unscrupulous warlord wouldnt think twice about punishing those that had failed him... or duping those stupid enough to believe the will still be the masters in this symbiotic relationship. Although I agree that daemon princes and Greater Daemons should be avoided wherever possible with the AL... Not that the AL wouldnt stoop to the use of Daemons wherever they are able. After all its never said that the AL dont use daemons, just that they often fight in situations where there use is unreliable.

 

 

the AL see themselfs as superior to all beings in the w40k universe [what doesnt mean they can show respect to a mighty demon prince ]

Reference this please, nothing I can remember cites this.. Closest I can think of is WB believe themselves higher than any daemon. Nothing sticks out other than the usual CSM superiority complexes. Not saying your wrog, just I cant think of a source.

 

but anything can be justified

well its true [dragon as drop pods , skimer driving sm/csm etc ] . only that something happens once , doesnt mean it happens all the time . Other wise one could build a WB armies out of cult troops and say that those are WB renegades fleeing from their own brethern , but still doing chaos work . also it would give nice options to play a double lash , pms , oblits WB army .

 

 

Its closer to a player deciding that he doesnt want his army to be deployed by drop pod, but rather a tunneling vehicle... Using exactly the samerules, the creates and converts said vehicle, and simply uses the drop pod rules as the closest game rules... Is he wrong in doing so? Does it bend or break rules? Does it break fluff? Or is it a method the player uses to relect the kind of army he wants to use, the armies still legal, Theyve just twisted the fluff reasoning. This the essence of the AL cultist.. Ok we cant have rules... we accept that and have to live with it. But Generic Daemons are the next best option, to reflect the fluff we wish to portray.

[Magnus Thane]

And i will concede Possessed will likely be short, but Possession is by no means certain to be short, only if the individual is unable to hold teh essence of the Daemon... In which they become more Spawn Like (another fluff reason people)

And what more appropriate punishment for an AL than Spawndom.

yes but there are also psychological problems . the AL see themselfs as superior to all beings in the w40k universe [what doesnt mean they can show respect to a mighty demon prince ]. For possession to work [and I mean here the kind when the demon doesnt kill his host ala champion being poped by a greater demon] the host has to be willing [or at least druged] . Otherwise the inner fight between the demon and the host will either end in demon wining [well lets say it happens to non sm a lot ] the host dieing [when the host has strong will] partial possesion [when the control of the body switches from demon to host etc ] . Now as we are talking fluff here , it would be really hard to find a willing number of AL that would like to share themselfs with demons . And as punishment goes . If the host keeps the upper hand [and to work with other csm brother is should, because demons are too hard to control ] , then its like making criminals work in an experimental weapon factory .

 

Ok... so drugged, fair point. Either way, the individual doesnt get a say.... Drugged, hypnosis, either way, its used as punishment. How its done an the method used is up to the individual. Any unscrupulous warlord wouldnt think twice about punishing those that had failed him... or duping those stupid enough to believe the will still be the masters in this symbiotic relationship. Although I agree that daemon princes and Greater Daemons should be avoided wherever possible with the AL... Not that the AL wouldnt stoop to the use of Daemons wherever they are able. After all its never said that the AL dont use daemons, just that they often fight in situations where there use is unreliable.

 

Novels such as Dark Apostle (among others) indicate that posessed are not persay always shortlived nor bent on Spawndom.

 

 

the AL see themselfs as superior to all beings in the w40k universe [what doesnt mean they can show respect to a mighty demon prince ]

Reference this please, nothing I can remember cites this.. Closest I can think of is WB believe themselves higher than any daemon. Nothing sticks out other than the usual CSM superiority complexes. Not saying your wrog, just I cant think of a source.

 

but anything can be justified

well its true [dragon as drop pods , skimer driving sm/csm etc ] . only that something happens once , doesnt mean it happens all the time . Other wise one could build a WB armies out of cult troops and say that those are WB renegades fleeing from their own brethern , but still doing chaos work . also it would give nice options to play a double lash , pms , oblits WB army .

 

 

Its closer to a player deciding that he doesnt want his army to be deployed by drop pod, but rather a tunneling vehicle... Using exactly the samerules, the creates and converts said vehicle, and simply uses the drop pod rules as the closest game rules... Is he wrong in doing so? Does it bend or break rules? Does it break fluff? Or is it a method the player uses to relect the kind of army he wants to use, the armies still legal, Theyve just twisted the fluff reasoning. This the essence of the AL cultist.. Ok we cant have rules... we accept that and have to live with it. But Generic Daemons are the next best option, to reflect the fluff we wish to portray.

[the jeske]

Novels such as Dark Apostle (among others) indicate that posessed are not persay always shortlived nor bent on Spawndom.

yes but thats willing possesion . hard to get with AL. you need a sorc and good one and you need to make pacts or the host may exploded and you end up with a thirster runing amoke in your ranks . its really really hard to do . as I said from the GW policy about fluff techniclly everything is possible . One could make possessed and claim that its AL using corrupted eldar exarch spirit stones to enhance their warriors .

Reference this please, nothing I can remember cites this.

well most of the AL fluff is about it . check the WD articles [easiest to find would be the IA one ] and how did alfarius and his legion view other sm [or csm] . why didnt they take part in the legion war , why didnt they follow the other legions in to the eye . etc.

 

 

Is he wrong in doing so? Does it bend or break rules? Does it break fluff? O

well unless he is doing a counts as squat army , then using drillers when you drop from orbit would be hard to do . With the AL the thing is that they generally dont use possessed . Its like I said , you could techiniclly claim that a WB cult army is fluffy [renegeded fleeing the wrath of Lorgar etc] . Possible ? yes . Fluffy ? not really .

 

But our disagreement may come from understanding the word fluff in a different way . For me fluffy is thats whats more or less official + the stuff that is see as typical for a legion . For me non automaton 1ksons or non mad WE are not fluffy [unless pre heresy ].

[Nemisor]

then using drillers when you drop from orbit would be hard to do

 

but as part of the official fluff from GW says the alpha legion have already infiltraited a planet before they attack so cordinating your assault with the troops you alredy have hiddin on the planet, and using them to tunnel in under the enemy would be perfectly within the realms of the OFFICIAL fluff for thr legion. yes?