Smurfalypse Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 What i think was proven as well though is the fact that CSM units with icons to other gods (khorne, tzeentch, and glory most especially) can be very much worth it. well and here is where I disagree mainly because of the change to the wound allocation system. right now you have 2 special guys and asp champ and an icon guy . that 4 marines out of 10 . the 5th armies are going to be[or already are] build to force a massive amount of save [because of the cover saves everyone has] . i expect to see more 6 man devi squads with 3 hvy bolters , more jetbikes and maybe even a foot slogging army of eldar with warwalkers [cant force my wife to play one ;/ ] . the fact that there is a chance of losing the icon guy [and the buff] is a huge turn off for me . [specially as the cult units dont suffer from that ] . + there is the fact that the pts cost dont leave much options to pick [well at least at 1.750 pts] taking an icon of khorn or slanesh [why not take noise marines without sonic weapons ?] offten means one less oblit or not enough pts for rhino/gear for asp champions . In a perfect world the icons would have been all balance and would be more like the special buffs the sm characters give [did you know that they work even after the specials death?] . but they dont . But we are talking here about abstract things . lets make lists with icons and we will see , if it works . I actually agree with this to a certain extent. Take an icon of glory is never a waste in my mind, its only 10 pts and not a huge sap on your resorces. With the wound allocation it will sometimes bite you in the butt, but if your opponent wants to spend the shooting phase blowing up the rhino, then focusing a unit with a huge amount of shooting against them im actually ok with this. In the end its only a CSM sqaud and this is kinda what they do. Back on topic, no...there is apsolutely no reason to take an icon of nurgle on a CSM instead of just taking PM's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142447-plague-marines-vs-csm/page/2/#findComment-1650116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Well, I guess this whole discussion begs the question of whether the Plague Marines need to be modeled all bloated and junk, or whether you could just slap some Nurgle shoulder pads and symbols on them, and call it a day. Reason I ask is because the GW models are ugly, while the FW models are crazy expensive. Luckily its one of the easiest conversions to do, as long as you can do greenstuff. All the best plague marines i've seen short of forge world were greenstuff conversions. Luckily one of my 3 squads of regular marines isn't basecoated yet. Just need to make some grooves, maybe pull off some tzeentchish helmets in favor of the nurgle one and get to work with the green stuff. Got any pics/links? There's a couple WIPs of plague marines over in the WIP forum. Here's mine that i just got started on this evening: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=142637 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142447-plague-marines-vs-csm/page/2/#findComment-1650521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 For basic CSMs, I think I'd rather drop the champ then an icon. Our champs are just so expensive now that, along with the wound system and the powerfist debuff, it's hard to justify the points. 3 CSMs kill just as many marines on the charge as one champ with a power weapon (thanks in part to the two extra bolt pistol shots), but have more wounds, and rapid fire harder. It's a similar comparison between a fist champ and 4 basic marines. The champ, whether fist or p.wep, grant a bit of extra versatility (against terminators, ICs, and, for fists, MCs as well), but the loss in wounds and bolter shots is palpable. The other thing they do is protect against high init enemies. But in either case, I'm beginning to think I'd rather save the points to take some more dedicated anti/IC, MC, and heavy tank options, and maybe consider an icon of slaanesh to protect against high init. It's a shame, because champions are cool, but I'm beginning to think they just aren't worth it in basic troop squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142447-plague-marines-vs-csm/page/2/#findComment-1650768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Pie Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I also have dropped my champs, though mine were Plague Champs. For 13pts cheaper then a PC with PF, you can get a Terminator Champ with Powerfist. If I feel a burning need for Powerfists (against nids in particular) I'll use Termies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142447-plague-marines-vs-csm/page/2/#findComment-1650807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukka Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I am loving the power weapons right now. a champ with 4 armor ignoring attacks on the charge at standard initiative is too good to pass up especially with an icon of slaanesh. my plague marines get hammered in close combat with I3 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142447-plague-marines-vs-csm/page/2/#findComment-1650819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 my plague marines get hammered in close combat with I3 how is tha ? can you explain . because normally they should be taking less deaths from normal meq [t5 and FnP] , less wounds from power weapons [ again t5] . or are you charing them in to hth units ? thats bad . you should either intercept those with lords [slany ones are good , specially in tandems . very fast] or lash them away . 2 lash minimize the number of units geting assault [specially if your opponent doesnt have psychic hoods]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142447-plague-marines-vs-csm/page/2/#findComment-1651354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 my plague marines get hammered in close combat with I3 how is tha ? can you explain . because normally they should be taking less deaths from normal meq [t5 and FnP] , less wounds from power weapons [ again t5] . or are you charing them in to hth units ? thats bad . you should either intercept those with lords [slany ones are good , specially in tandems . very fast] or lash them away . 2 lash minimize the number of units geting assault [specially if your opponent doesnt have psychic hoods]. Not everyone uses lash. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142447-plague-marines-vs-csm/page/2/#findComment-1651438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Pie Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I've been using Plague Marines in every list I've run for five years now and I've never seen mine get consistently hammered in CC. Every now and then I flub some armor saves, but unless they're doing something crazy like running screaming at a Carnifex whilst forgetting their powerfist, Plague Marines tend to weather most CC. Just to clarify, 2 of my primary opponents are Orks and Tyranids, so I see a lot of combat. In fact, in light of the rending nerf and the initial pile-in move, my Plague Marines are winning more combats on the defensive through resolution then ever. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142447-plague-marines-vs-csm/page/2/#findComment-1652709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I've been using Plague Marines in every list I've run for five years now and I've never seen mine get consistently hammered in CC. Every now and then I flub some armor saves, but unless they're doing something crazy like running screaming at a Carnifex whilst forgetting their powerfist, Plague Marines tend to weather most CC. Just to clarify, 2 of my primary opponents are Orks and Tyranids, so I see a lot of combat. In fact, in light of the rending nerf and the initial pile-in move, my Plague Marines are winning more combats on the defensive through resolution then ever. Good info. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142447-plague-marines-vs-csm/page/2/#findComment-1652716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neves Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Well, I guess this whole discussion begs the question of whether the Plague Marines need to be modeled all bloated and junk, or whether you could just slap some Nurgle shoulder pads and symbols on them, and call it a day. Reason I ask is because the GW models are ugly, while the FW models are crazy expensive. Well I use regular csm painted as plague marines and nobody around where I play makes a fuss of it. Plague Marines out of regular Marines Basicly I just added a mutation with greenstuff to the left shoulderpad. On the whole I prefer the PM's above the regular, they survive much longer. Even against assault marines, they haven't ever beaten me (mostly I cream them with my AC w powersword) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142447-plague-marines-vs-csm/page/2/#findComment-1654563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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