Explain to me why you would take a Vndicator over a Defiler

[Luigiman59]

Now maybe I'm crazy, but to me, it seems, like a Defiler is way more efficient. A Vindicator seems like such a one-trick pony to me. Sure, it's got an awesome gun, but its range is lacking, and if it loses the gun, it's useless. Meanwhile a Defiler has a pretty big gun of its own, at a much more impressive range and can lose it's gun and still be very effective in many other ways. Defensively, the Vindi has the edge on front armor, but being 24 inches from the enemy seems like it's just begging to get pegged in the side armor, while the Defiler has AV 12 anywhere but the back. Plus, points wise, i'm assuming it's a must to take demonic possession for the vindicator, which really brings their point costs to about the same if you factor in any other upgrades. While the Defiler has good small arms weapons default.

 

Is that demolisher cannon really all that good?

[Terminus]

Well, yeah, it's a real nice gun, with S10 and AP2 vs. the Defiler's S8 and AP3, but I think the 3x range makes up for it. Plus, like you said, if your defiler gets his cannon blown off, he can always fleet towards the enemy and tear into them with up to 6 attacks.

[chillin]

I only had the defiler live past the 1st turn in 1 out of 4 games, so I quit using it. AV 13 makes a big difference over AV12, str 8 only penetrates on a 6.

When my gaming group starts using 5th ed, I will give it another try.

-

Oh, and one time I did drop a vindi template dead on a unit of termi's, killed them all, leaving commander all by himself. If a defiler had done that they would have all gotten 2+ armor saves.

Not that one lucky shot is a reason to pick one over the other...but it was kool.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I think the fact that the defiler is still effective after losing its cannon, and the fact that it can get safe in melee make it way better than the vindi's 13 front armor. I've just added a defiler to my army and i plan to take full advantage of the fact that i can stick it in cc and have it automatically win unless they have a fist or melta bombs. Plus twin linked heavy flamers are awesome.

[the jeske]

not enough hvy suppor slots . 2 taken by oblits and one by a dakka pred . but if I would take defis or vindis i would take 2 of each . the defiler is ok against new players [those who dont disperse troops , fear pie plates even when cover +4 is the norm etc]. it costs a lot of pts and is neither very good at anti tank , nor uber in hth[but then again no walkers are] . the good side of them is that you can fit them in to any army [but I that I mean all those "for fun" armies ] . the vindicator is harder to use . i has to get close [so harder to use , more chance to get blown up etc] and just like in the 4th ed using it forces the army build on you. you cant run it in a hth force for example . also it forces you to run double lash to maximise the effectivens [but then again oblits do the same and have more weapon options and more flexibilty at less pts ] . In the end its a games joice what to pick . For me its no defis and no vindis .

[badguyshaveallthefun]

I think the main reason I would take a vindicator over a defiler is for purely psychological reasons. It seems to me that opponents focus a lot more firepower on a vindicator than they do a defiler. (Something to do with a S10 blast template). But I also have horrible luck with my defiler. It's spent 7 turns in combat with Space marine scouts not doing anything. I either miss with all his attacks or fail to wound with those that do. So I try to avoid combat with my defiler.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I think the main reason I would take a vindicator over a defiler is for purely psychological reasons. It seems to me that opponents focus a lot more firepower on a vindicator than they do a defiler. (Something to do with a S10 blast template). But I also have horrible luck with my defiler. It's spent 7 turns in combat with Space marine scouts not doing anything. I either miss with all his attacks or fail to wound with those that do. So I try to avoid combat with my defiler.

 

 

How do you fail to wound with s10 weapons? 0_o

[Antarticus]

Because the Defiler is ugly? And I don't want anyone to think I'm just being stupid ... but that's why I'm not buying a Defiler.

[Forward Operative]

Defiler also does not fit into my idea of Alpha Legion, but Vindicator does.

[minigun762]

While your typical target of ordnance is normally high value infantry (like Marines or Necron), don't forget that the battlecannon of the Defiler is only S8 while the Demolisher is S10, against AV14 armor, that extra strength can be huge, especially considering the changes made in 5th Edition and S8 only being able to glance AV14.

I'm pretty sure the Vindicator is point for point the most efficient way to destroy a Monolith, as the you still get the bonus of the Ordnance roll against it.

[Brother Nihm]

For a defiler to fit in theme-wise your army has to have some allowance towards the Daemonic (imho).

Apart from fluff it's also a very big model and as such it's hard to 'keep it safe' compared to a Vindicator.

 

The two units are vastly different though, where the defiler is either an indirect fire platform or an aggressive killing machine, the Vindicator is a defensive/objective denial tank due to it's relatively short weapons range.

 

 

My 2 Kraks.

[Roultox]

Defilers serve: charge, counter charge, terror factor(magnet), range ord, diverse

Vindicators serve: fear factor, LoS block, hard target destruction (Instant kill T5, wound wraithlords on 2+, and force inv saves on everything)

 

Apples and Oranges, preferance really. I prefer defilers or obliterators, but thats just me. I prefer the versitile options that have tact and not bust as their main factor. If I had a vindicator anymore, I would perhaps field one every now and then and play accordingly with it.

[King Tiger]

because the vindicator model looks better.............thats the only reason you need

[Cmndr Sarpedon]

The fear factor of the S10 large ordanance tempate of doom is amazing. People REALY want to be rid of it quickly, and it has a healthy A13. Also people shoot at it rather than the 2 rhinos covering its juicy flanks :P Full of troops I might add... 1K Sons and Marines with IoN and a chaos lord

[DuskRaider]

Truthfully? If I field both a Defiler and a Vindicator, the Vindi is by and large ignored, but the Defiler is a HUGE fire magnet. It's not that it's really cool (but it is), it's that it looks so intimidating. You could drop a Defiler down and say it's a Nurgling and it'll still be the first piece to bite the big one. Psychological tactics are why you use one. It gives the rest of your army a chance to move up while your enemy is concentrating his fire on your walker.

The Vindicator, on the other hand, is under estimated by most. Yeah, its range sucks, but truthfully I use mine as support for my troops and by the time the enemy realizes what he ignored, it's too late.

[DarKHaZZ13]

after the dammage I did today with a vindi

its gotta be vindi

 

So much for the monolith haha

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

A vindi is a big, bad gun on wheels, and people know it. I don't usually plan on getting to use it that much, but it sure makes for one hell of a distraction. I can't believe some of the lengths I've seen people go to to try and destroy it while pretty much ignoring the rest of my army.

 

Kinda the same thing with Death Company when I still played loyalists. It's a threat that you can't ignore or it'll take a big bite out of your backside. Most people just pay way too much attention to it.

[Cornelias]

Truthfully? If I field both a Defiler and a Vindicator, the Vindi is by and large ignored, but the Defiler is a HUGE fire magnet. It's not that it's really cool (but it is), it's that it looks so intimidating. You could drop a Defiler down and say it's a Nurgling and it'll still be the first piece to bite the big one. Psychological tactics are why you use one. It gives the rest of your army a chance to move up while your enemy is concentrating his fire on your walker.

The Vindicator, on the other hand, is under estimated by most. Yeah, its range sucks, but truthfully I use mine as support for my troops and by the time the enemy realizes what he ignored, it's too late.

 

i 100% agree here, i use both alot and the defiler certainly takes the flak off the vindi and i usually run it inbetween 2 rhinos to thin the ranks or clear obstructions just before dismounting my troops, works wonders on an unsuspecting foe :lol:

[Haakon Ironheart]

Do not forget that Defilers have nowhere to hide(too tall)...With true LOS that is a big problem

[Seahawk]

Except with buildings, forests, walls, etc. My defiler has been quite easy to hide in 5th, even standing the 4" tall, slightly taller than average. It's only been destroyed once in ten games, sucking on everything from grenade launchers to railgun shots and still been fine.

 

I can see using both in a game would be strategically valuable. I prefer the defiler because it epitomizes chaos more than a vindicator. Plus it has 5 weapons compared to the vindicator's 3, so a weapon destroyed won't really affect it's combat potential for quite some time.

[Kothal Ironfist]

I take the vindi just for fluff reasons because I play IW.

[FerrumIgnatus]

I take the vindi just for fluff reasons because I play IW.

 

Ditto... I have two of them and planning on buying a third for the same reason... -Want that Vindicator Linebreaker squadron SOOOO bad-

 

As for the Defilers...well... I DO want to build a upright Defiler with the Soul-Grinder kit, but for now I stick with my vindicator goodiness... :o

[Crimson Devil]

The Vindicator fits in my figure case and the Defiler doesn't. ;)

[Cornelias]

The Vindicator fits in my figure case and the Defiler doesn't. :)

 

as good a reason as any heh :)

[Zeller]

Vindy is a smaller target, faster and easier to build, it is a tank, and frankly it's scarier than a defiler.