Cmndr Sarpedon Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Are Spawn worth getting? They seem to be expensive in points for what seems to be a clumsy slow thing with no armour, yet they do look good, which is a good enough reason for me to get some. Do any of you own spawn? For fluff reasons? How about gaming tactics? Do you just point them at the enamy and let them do their work? Or should I just spend the points on a Deamon squad? Or even a bike squad? True a spawn is S5 and T5, but there seems to be alot of downsides for their stats. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 No - spawn are not worth getting Yes - you should just spend the pts on a squad of daemons. Many more models, can be summoned where you want/need them don't have to move (slowly) down the board, scoring unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1652446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelias Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 spawn are only worth using/modelling if you have a GoC on a sorc and i think that's the only reason they are included in the codex at all heh, that way you get them free and can cause some nasty surprises not too mention taking away valuable threats away from your enemy. for the price of 2 spawn you can have an oblit or as Chillin said you'll get 6 lesser daemons both of which would be much better points value. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1652464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmndr Sarpedon Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 Thanks for the quick replies you two. @ Cornelias I do have a sorc with GoC, but prefer to use WoC when ever I can. And 6 demons sound more appealing @ chillin I had forgot that demons could count as scoring units Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1652482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skarfiend Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Yes - you should just spend the pts on a squad of daemons. Many more models, can be summoned where you want/need them don't have to move (slowly) down the board, scoring unit. Scoring? Since when? Last I checked, summoned daemons do not count as troops, don't count towards your troops choices and aren't even mentionned in the CSM FAQ. Have I missed something? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1652533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
L0NEW0LF Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Are Spawn worth getting? NO! :D seriously fluffwize they might seem good but gamewize everything else is a better choice ;) i'd definitely recommend getting lesser deamons, more use, cheaper (pointswise) and are a scoring unit too ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1652554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalrik Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Yes - you should just spend the pts on a squad of daemons. Many more models, can be summoned where you want/need them don't have to move (slowly) down the board, scoring unit. Scoring? Since when? Last I checked, summoned daemons do not count as troops, don't count towards your troops choices and aren't even mentionned in the CSM FAQ. Have I missed something? "Units of Summoned Lesser Daemons do not use up any force organization chart selection, but are otherwise treated as a Troops unit." Clear as day, yes, they can hold objectives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1652582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Scoring? Since when? Last I checked, summoned daemons do not count as troops, don't count towards your troops choices and aren't even mentionned in the CSM FAQ. Have I missed something? - I don't know when or where you checked but; C:csm pg 102 summoned lesser daemons "units of summoned lesser daemons do not use up any FoC selection, but are otherwise treated as a TROOPS unit " and TROOPS are scoring units. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1652587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju'kosian Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 "Units of Summoned Lesser Daemons do not use up any force organization chart selection, but are otherwise treated as a Troops unit." So yes they are scoring !! Spawns are not worth getting, unless in fun games or in apocalyps.. I have spawns, for when I use GoC. And because in the edition before spawns were somewhat better. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1652700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joah from Alberta Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I think a lot of people are basing their opinion of Spawn under 4th. Yeah, for what they do they are definitely overpriced. I am working on a New World Eaters army-- get ready to eat the New World. I have some Slaanesh and thank the Gods of 5th, I will be able to create a redemption unit that will tie Slaanesh and Khorne by the use of Spawn. Three Spawn (all dressed up for Khorne) joined to a Blissgiver lord on Steed of Slaanesh. I might even model some chains to make them all happy. Hows that for S5 T5 heresy!!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1653040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmndr Sarpedon Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 Consider that SlaaneshLord-Spawn idea stolen. I forgot about slaanesh steeds being cavalry, that means they all assault 12inch..... another thing I missed Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1653046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 so instead of having a 18+D6" charge range you drop to 2d6" +d6 +2d6" pick highest ? for a hth/counter unit ? and for that you get spawn as ablative shields , only if you take 2/3 your lord is still going to have hits allocated to him ? bad idea . strong no to spawns . they are up there with dreads and possesed in usefullness in the chaos dex we have now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1653854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 However, they'll still always move and assault through terrain (as per S&P), so you might not get good rolls and he dies... [whoops, late] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1653873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roultox Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 If you want some spawns as counter assaulters, I found that if you pin one of the models in a spawn unit between at least three of your own models, the rest of the unit sticks to it with coherency pinning it there until you release the spawns. Spawns move roughly 8" a turn with move+fleet and end up being about 13"-17" on the assault average total. They have the durability of 2 marines against high AP/Str weapons, and count as one marine against bolter fire. This means against rapid firing weapon armies they must be tied up before the spawns arrive. They work best in a two turn assault army basicly. There you have it, their pro's and con's. I suggest lesser daemons myself. 10 csm in rhino+2 melta+Pfist champ is about 20 lesser daemons worth, every 2 lesser daemons 5+ save put together is like having one marine with a 3+ inv save, considering hard hitting weapons just killing one, and that they assault when they arrive, larger units 6" from the icon means every circle completed is more distance closer to the enemy to assault. This unit is perfect against daemonettes/harlequins/banshees/assassins/orks/genestealers and the like. There, their pro/con as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1654005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Unfortunately you can never hold back spawn in that manner. They still move, albeit sideways, towards the nearest enemy unit. It doesn't say "Spawn move in a direct line and if something's in the way it stops." They take the shortest route, which ends up being the longest-shortest route in that case. Of course, this could send them into a different enemy unit as it become closer along the line. Such a line would take an IG army to do; there are just too few CSM in almost any army for that to be effective. However, you could corral it with a 5 man squad, almost in BTB, in a full circle around it. On the plus side, it will get a 4+ cover save. A runtherder squad, if you will. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1654021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roultox Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 You heard me block and pin with 3 models right? If you encircle one larger Circle, with 3 smaller circles in a triangle pattern, the larger circle cannot move anywhere. I am correct. apologies for not explaining it properly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1654088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Ah yes, you didn't say you were circling the 3. I imagined a line of them saying "Don't go nowhere, silly spawn. We'll have ways for you to die soon enough," expecting that to be sufficient. But still, that's a whole squad being used for herd duty. I'd rather have mine killing things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1654245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joah from Alberta Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 I believe three spawn with IC forms a Chaos Honour Guard. As it is quite a formidable challenge to make such a unit work for the general and very lavish both in points and $. I wonder if a rhino could help block LOS to the nearest enemy. Also, does S&P count for assault as well? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1654323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 LOS doesn't matter. Spawn always move towards the nearest unit, no matter what. Apparently they sniff them out when they don't have LOS. Thus the WD article last year about that tactic was utterly worthless and goes to show just what in the codex they actually knew they were printing. Just give the HQ meltabombs in case they decide a tank or titan is the next thing they want to eat. 5 pts breaks no budget. S&P does count for assault. So to expand what was earlier said, it's 2D6 (take highest) + D6 + 2D6 (take highest, double it). Anywhere from 4" to 24" a turn. Believe me, 4" can happen, and it sucks when they're flappin' in the breeze like that. And IG shoot them down with lasguns... :D But then I've had some great times with spawn, especially against IG. Two units of three spawn overtook an entire flank...killed two platoons I think? I lost three spawn in return for that effort. Rhinos can be the wall between them and the bullets though. You cover them with the hulls, then unleash them with some daemons, with cover fire from the squads in the rhinos, and yea a 1-2 foot section of battle lines will fall very fast. Having some terminators teleport in is great fun too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1654347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Gothard Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Rhinos can be the wall between them and the bullets though. You cover them with the hulls, then unleash them with some daemons, with cover fire from the squads in the rhinos, and yea a 1-2 foot section of battle lines will fall very fast. Having some terminators teleport in is great fun too. Why the devil would you go to all that trouble just to get a REALLY subpar excuse for a shock trooper into combat with the enemy? Why not forget about spawn, and take bikers, or raptors, or ANYTHING else besides spawn? You'll save points, get there faster, kill more, and not have to dedicate an entire army to delivering CHAOS SPAWN into close combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1654389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Simple. It's fun . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1654397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roultox Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Havocs dont go anywhere, neither does a stationary bolter unit sitting on an objective, or a counter charge unit waiting to defend a gunline. Spawn pinning is easier then you think! Besides, I've pinned spawns between my vehicles(predators) and a few havocs just for kicks. Still a viable tactic for a counter charge unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1654473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joah from Alberta Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Even though we flaunt our intellect, does it necessitate our big-wigs on all the time?! There is a certain pleasure felt when winning against all odds, that can only be attained by winning against all odds. I say screw the inter-stellar and SSSSPAAAAAWN, baby SSSSSPAAAAAWN! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1654520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Simple. It's fun :). things that dont work are not fun . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1654562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joah from Alberta Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Spoken like a true pragmatist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/142770-chaos-spawn-pros-and-cons/#findComment-1654857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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