Baneblade defiler...

[Chaplain Invictus]

Here is my problem, well more like annoyance. I play Iron warriors, and LOVE the defiler for rules, but I absolutely hate the model. Its a neat model, but to me, iron warriors screams treads and infantry, not crazy walker guy. I have been tossing the idea around to use a modified Baneblade as a counts as model.

Ruleswise this is what I have in mind to justify the use.

 

The firing weapons would be changed/swapped/removed etc so it matches the defilers, as well as the rough placement.

 

Since walkers max out at 6" movement, and roll for difficult terrain and dangerous terrian, I chalk that up to it being a huge tank, which imo would not be fast.

 

Justifying the close combat part of a defiler, a friend had suggested maybe have the tank have multiple small defensive mechanical critters. Something like necron scarabs.

This would only be for friendly games and during apoc. games it would be used as a Baneblade.

 

 

What do you guys think? Would you let someone use this as a counts as model? Any and all thoughts on this are more than welcome. Thanks!

 

-Kris

[Jarulek]

No.

 

As I recall the banblade is far bigger then the Defiler and it's a massive construct, unlike the defiler which has large spaces between his legs and under his torso. With the new "true line of site rule" you would benefit more for using a Baneblade model for the same ammount of points.

[Zeller]

Goofy idea :D

 

Problems are as you may have surmised:

Tanks don't fleet

Representing extra close combat weapons on a tank would be difficult

 

*spark* I just thought of something!

 

Recall the rotating chainflails on WWII tanks for clearing mine fields. How about a tank based off the rhino chassiss with a massive 'mine clearer' up front to count as all the close combat weapons you put on it. Flufflistically you can say that the vehicle 'loses attacks' when a few chains break off from abuse. You could then have a turret with a battlecannon from a Leman Russ or perhaps something more like the SOB repressor.

 

Food for thought.

[Chaplain Invictus]

Jarulek I'm curious how it would benefit with the line of sight rules. I would figure a model thats larger would be a larger target, and thus easier to kill. As far as it having better LOS, I thought it was determined by the weapon itself, not the hull, thus it does not benefit from being larger. I'm not sure how it would benefit, maybe I don't understand your wording, but wouldn't larger mean easier to kill?

 

 

Zeller, fleet does pose a problem. I suppose it would be "gunning the engines and ramming." Thats about the best I can think of for that, especially with the chain idea. The turret I had planned to modify the Baneblade varient that comes in the box to more battlecannon look, as well as mount everything on the turret the defiler comes with, aside form the reaper, that I think I'd hull mount, may cause fussing as its got an inch more forward, but it does lose the 360* fire arch.

 

 

I compared the two models at GW earlier. Height wise the defiler wins, can go up far higher than the baneblade, or just as tall, the rough area they take up underthem however the Baneblade is near twice the size, meaning for it to fire it would have to expose more of its hull that the defiler.

 

-Kris

[Vaz]

A defiler also only has Armor 12.. hard to say the baneblade has that.

 

Sorry man, cant swing this.

[Massawyrm]

Jarulek I'm curious how it would benefit with the line of sight rules. I would figure a model thats larger would be a larger target, and thus easier to kill. As far as it having better LOS, I thought it was determined by the weapon itself, not the hull, thus it does not benefit from being larger. I'm not sure how it would benefit, maybe I don't understand your wording, but wouldn't larger mean easier to kill?

 

I think the issue at hand is that the defiler is not a suitable model to run up front while running squads of marines behind it. Using the Baneblade with Defiler rules, you've essentially made a defiler that provides complete cover for several squads footslogging into enemy territory behind it.

 

That said, I play in a very COUNTS AS, fun play environment, and I can't imagine anyone showing up with a $95 proxy for a $55 model getting turned down if the model was cool enough. Especially if you went the extra mile and added pieces from the defiler kit to the Baneblade (which is what I recommend.) No one would EVER let that fly in a tourney - but friendly play? I wouldn't have a problem, even with the tactical advantage. It comes with a bevy of problems that balance out in fun, friendly scenario play. I say run it by your regular opponents, but that it should be fine.

[Chaplain Invictus]

Ah, ok that makes sense to me. I wasn't thinking it from that angle at all, but i do see where you're coming from. It most likely won't have actual defiler bits, or if it does it would be the reaper and a few odds and ends. I do deffinently (sp) see your point of view on that though, strictly as a mobile LOS blocking standpoint....

 

I suppose I'll have to show my group all the pros and cons and let them decide, though I'm not too worried, a buddy has a 'Nid army that consists of very few built models... just lots of bases, partial builds, and lots of stand ins.

 

Worst case honestly is it is used for apoc only, I love the model (who doesn't love big tanks?) so either way I plan on buying and converting the hell out of it. Should fit my Tank heavy IW nicely :tu:

 

Any other thoughts for the CCW on this though? Trying to make it as tanky as possible, I like the mine sweeper idea, but that does only explain the front.

 

-Kris

[Zeller]

You could build a catwalk on the side of the hull where IW marines with thunder hammers can take potshots?

 

Or for a more subtle look you could have those side armor plates actually conceal extendable super chain swords! The door would open upward and the arm would come out and bash/hack things.

 

You could have some sort of piledriver on the side?

 

Reactive armor?

 

Bizarre figures carved onto the hull that lash out when enemies draw too close?

 

Horizontal buzz saws that come out of said side armor plates? (Thinking Indiana Jones here)

 

A swarm of incredible upset servo skulls?

[Kalrik]

I had been having a similar quandry with my Alpha Legion as of late, I'm trying to use "count as" to include the better options but to avoid overly demonic, or chaosy LOOKING elements, (you should see my Obliterators)

 

While trying to figure out something that would match the footprint of the Defiler, but still be able to justify the long range artilery cannon, I came up with the following after playing Company of Heros. Last week

 

A Crew-Manned Howitzer

 

http://www.eme421.com/800px-M777_howitzer_rear.jpg

 

Basically my version will have a Crew with Powerfists, be Terminators, or Obliterators, and they will be attached to the base/legs of this gun, it has wheels as you can see in the picture, so in close combat, it will have one Crew member for each "attack" it has, (and they'll be removable as it loses weapons)

 

The idea would probably also work for the Iron Warriors too, Masters of Siege and all. I hope to have a mock-up done of the thing in a week or so.

[Seahawk]

Heh, just mix the two models, like this guy did (although it's a soul grinder, you get the idea):

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/veritas117/100_3934.jpg

 

It might be best to leave it as a superheavy for Apocalypse games, like a brass scorpion or something. For normal games, while being so big means it won't be hiding (slight disadvantage) you can hide a huge amount of models behind it for counter assault, etc. (big advantage). I wouldn't like it.

[Chaplain Invictus]

I suppose this'll end up just being for games with a few friends. The bloacking LOS would have a major advantage, so I suppose its just something I'll have to avoid doing. I play a very shooty army, everything has a transport for blocking LOS. Just one of those things I'll avoid at all costs is using its gigantic size for cover, and when in doubt, they have a shot. I'm just hesitant to limit it to just apoc right now, as the group doesn't want to play that large of a game since it takes too long (busy schedules and everything). Though may change soon, as of now I have yet to get them to play.

 

Kalrik, I like the idea, something to consider down the road. Main reason I thought Baneblade is I love the model, and want an excuse to use it as well as have something that can shoot more than 48" (our table is 4' by 8').

 

Zeller, the servo skull thing was kind of what I was shooting for. Small robot dealies that attack and protect.

 

Seahawk, I would just build the two together, but my main dislike of the defiler is the turret, the legs are not my favorite thing from GW either.

 

I guess it'll come to a vote with the group. I don't anticipate a no, or a yes, more of a bunch of "we don't care"s.

 

I do appreciate all the input though, whether or not this idea is used in non apoc games I will throw some finished pics up once I'm done.

 

-Kris

[Sons of Horus]

defilers are tiny compared to baneblades. and it'll look a bit weird seeing a tank with legs.

[Zeller]

Wierd? Aren't Dreadnoughts, titans, and defilers really just walking tanks? Now literally, yes...unless the tank is pampered and it's really resting on a dais of defiler legs.

[Massawyrm]

Hey, last night at the store I saw EXACTLY what you're looking for. Trying to get the guy to take photos and post it over on BOLS - but I'll desrcibe it to you.

 

The guy took magnets and put them on the connective part of each defiler leg. Then he put other magnets on a Chaos Vindicator. He then put all the other weapons on the Vindy, using the vindy as the head and body. Looked AWESOME and was roughly the same size. NO ONE had LOS issues with it. It was just cool. Try it out, Vindy with Defiler legs. Same price as the Bane Blade, but lots of extra bits and no complaining.

[Mattsama]

Here is my problem, well more like annoyance. I play Iron warriors, and LOVE the defiler for rules, but I absolutely hate the model. Its a neat model, but to me, iron warriors screams treads and infantry, not crazy walker guy. I have been tossing the idea around to use a modified Baneblade as a counts as model.

Ruleswise this is what I have in mind to justify the use.

 

The firing weapons would be changed/swapped/removed etc so it matches the defilers, as well as the rough placement.

 

Since walkers max out at 6" movement, and roll for difficult terrain and dangerous terrian, I chalk that up to it being a huge tank, which imo would not be fast.

 

Justifying the close combat part of a defiler, a friend had suggested maybe have the tank have multiple small defensive mechanical critters. Something like necron scarabs.

This would only be for friendly games and during apoc. games it would be used as a Baneblade.

 

 

What do you guys think? Would you let someone use this as a counts as model? Any and all thoughts on this are more than welcome. Thanks!

 

-Kris

 

I like the idea and know how you feel but perhaps you need to scale back on the grandeur of the model you are attempting to create. I would probably use a Leman Russ, separate the turret from the chassis with some daemonic filler, and model the front armor as bursting at the seams or even seperated by the bulk of the daemon held within. I like the previously mentioned chains and stuff around the base or make a multitude of arms flailing from the exposed daemonic skin. Thats my ideas.