How many is too many?

[kharn_the_betrayer]

I am looking at ordering the Apoc set that comes with 15 termies plus a termie lord. I already have 1 lord and 5 for my IW and 5 old metal ones for my WE. I would be adding them to the IW as an alternate HQ and alternate squads. Is 20 termies too many for one army (might run 2 squads every once in a while) and I don't play apoc so the exact nature of them as a data sheet is meaningless.

 

KtB

[the jeske]

for apo or normal . in apo there is no such thing as too many . in normal owning more then 8 has non sense.

[chillin]

could do it sometime just to see what happens. Sometimes you just gotta do that. The other day I came up with the brilliant idae of dusting off my dreads and marching them down field beside/behind my LR, that way if they shoot me it will be my LR and they can't hurt it.

Do we do these stupid things in a tourny ? No

But against a guy you've played a dozen times....

[Seahawk]

I commonly use 15 in normal games and they always dominate. I do plan on getting that formation box, so 30 will make me feel warm and fuzzy.

[Smurfalypse]

I use 10 terms in my 1500 list almost everytime. I add more the higher the points go, 2500 i use 20, apoc i use 40 or so. I love the terms in big formations and have had a pile of success with it, use an equal amount of possessed with your terms and you are a winner in my book :)

[Brumgert Da Mad]

As a thousand sons player those termies are only 30 points and dont require a sorcer so 10 is ussualy cheaper then my troop choice option I like ten of them and think they can realy help out an army. But make sure you use um smart.

[Zeller]

It's funny, someone asked the same question regarding titans in Apoc. I say you can never have enough terminators.

 

If there were a sweet spot number it would be 50. Yes, 50 terminators sounds about right.

[Smurfalypse]

It's funny, someone asked the same question regarding titans in Apoc. I say you can never have enough terminators.

 

If there were a sweet spot number it would be 50. Yes, 50 terminators sounds about right.

 

 

<3 a man after my own heart...Remember every term has a wingman, so 50 terms = 50 possessed...NEVER LEAVE YOUR WINGMAN!

[Roultox]

I would suggest using as much of the same thing as possible for say, deep strike, lots of deep strikers... Mobile firepower, lots of mobile guns. Keep a theme and you can rock those termies. If your army is diverse, your units that get separated will get torn apart.

[teh_perfesser]

in normal owning more then 8 has non sense.

I know the cheap "3 terminators with combi-meltas deep striking suicide squad"--that makes a lot of sense. Then I've seen a whole lot of "5 terminators, all champions, 2 pairs of lightning claws, reaper autocannon, 3 chainfists, Icon of Nurgle" set ups that really don't make sense even in non-tournament, non-competitive, 'just for fun' lists.

 

So how would you incorporate 8 terminators into one of your lists? I can't figure it out; almost everything I know about competitive Chaos armies comes from your writing, so I must have missed something...

[Drudge Dreadnought]

There's always the 4-5 man squad with IoCG, heavy flamer, powerfist, 1 set of claws, and the rest combi plasma or melta. Good all around squad that threatens anything and isn't too pricey.

[DuskRaider]

I use 7-14 Terminators in my games, usually because I don't bring heavy support and I think they fit the role just as well.

[Smurfalypse]

in normal owning more then 8 has non sense.

I know the cheap "3 terminators with combi-meltas deep striking suicide squad"--that makes a lot of sense. Then I've seen a whole lot of "5 terminators, all champions, 2 pairs of lightning claws, reaper autocannon, 3 chainfists, Icon of Nurgle" set ups that really don't make sense even in non-tournament, non-competitive, 'just for fun' lists.

 

So how would you incorporate 8 terminators into one of your lists? I can't figure it out; almost everything I know about competitive Chaos armies comes from your writing, so I must have missed something...

 

If you think you cannot win with more than a few terms than you are literally just shorting yourself. There are more tactics to this game than a single "termi-cide" option for your terms, i really dont understand comments like this and im not just targetting you out you are just the last one to post bro :huh:

 

Im not bragging BUT i literally win easily 95% of my games, including tournament play. My base 1500 list has 10 possessed and 10 terms and people go through fits trying to handle them. Just remember, this is a tactics based game not an "I own this therefor my army is better" game, your tactics have to fit your models and vice versa. Im fairly certain you probably have maybe used possessed once maybe twice and gave up on them, and im fairly positive you have NEVER tried anything other than termi-cide, if not try something else and see how it works out...The writings of TheJeske arnt gospel when it comes to winning, he is a very good player i have no doubt but this isnt math nor is it science you break one unit down and say "this is totally not viable" cept for the dreadnot there is no hope for that thing :P

 

Just my two cents bro.

[kharn_the_betrayer]

I'm looking for if its worth having all the termies. I am thinking of fielding either 2 10 man squads or 4 5 man, with different configs for purposes. IE 1 tankhunting with meltas and max chain fists, 1 with heavy flamer and pw for horde etc. specialised termies for fun.

[Kalrik]

in normal owning more then 8 has non sense.

I know the cheap "3 terminators with combi-meltas deep striking suicide squad"--that makes a lot of sense. Then I've seen a whole lot of "5 terminators, all champions, 2 pairs of lightning claws, reaper autocannon, 3 chainfists, Icon of Nurgle" set ups that really don't make sense even in non-tournament, non-competitive, 'just for fun' lists.

 

So how would you incorporate 8 terminators into one of your lists? I can't figure it out; almost everything I know about competitive Chaos armies comes from your writing, so I must have missed something...

 

If you think you cannot win with more than a few terms than you are literally just shorting yourself. There are more tactics to this game than a single "termi-cide" option for your terms, i really dont understand comments like this and im not just targetting you out you are just the last one to post bro ;)

 

Im not bragging BUT i literally win easily 95% of my games, including tournament play. My base 1500 list has 10 possessed and 10 terms and people go through fits trying to handle them. Just remember, this is a tactics based game not an "I own this therefor my army is better" game, your tactics have to fit your models and vice versa. Im fairly certain you probably have maybe used possessed once maybe twice and gave up on them, and im fairly positive you have NEVER tried anything other than termi-cide, if not try something else and see how it works out...The writings of TheJeske arnt gospel when it comes to winning, he is a very good player i have no doubt but this isnt math nor is it science you break one unit down and say "this is totally not viable" cept for the dreadnot there is no hope for that thing :)

 

Just my two cents bro.

 

 

I'd love to play against an army with 10 possessed and 10 terminators, I have 52ish bolters in my 1500pt list, I'd love to drown that many points in bolter shells!!

 

That being said, I'm writing an article currently on competitive play, and my Termie Entry reads: (its a rough draft)

 

Terminators: The Most cost-effective power weapon option you probably shouldn't use:

 

Terminators are cheap for what they bring to the table, naked for double the cost of a standard marine you get a power weapon, 2+ Armor save, and 5+ invuln, a twin linked bolter, and 2 attacks base (you do lose grenades and the second combat weapon) However they bring just as many problems to the table, for being such an awesome melee slayer unit.

Primarily that Big Clunky Armor.

 

First off it suffers from "How do we Get there syndrome" For a melee murder unit, it doesn't have a reliable way to get to melee combat early, it needs to be deepstriked close to the enemy (where you can't assault the turn you land) furthermore you could get many reserve rolls that delay it till turn 5, and then you'll never get to assault with them...

 

If you're going to deepstrike them, now you have to give it guns to make it affective the turn it lands, Combi-weapons are an excellent source of fire-once-and-forget weapons.

 

I feel obliterators handle this duty better, as a more flexible unit.

 

The other option is to foot slog them, but they are wasting their time that way.

 

The Final, and in my opinion best option is to put them in a land raider, this way they can murder when they land, the problem is that now they are limited to 5 man squads, and that Raider is a BIG Target for meltas "see my meltagun section"

 

Suggested Configuration:

Land Raider(daemonic possession): 4 Man, H. 1 flamer all power weapons with lord(your choice of lord) in terminator Armor. Mark of Khorne

 

Alternative Configuations:

Ranged Deepstrike Squad: 9 man H. Flammer, Mark of Tzeentch Combi weapons to taste (expensive but murder-iffic) Accompanying a lord.

 

Melee counter-charge unit. 9 Man H. Flammer Acompanying CC character, Mark of Khorne (cheap and effective Specailty troop murderer)

 

Minimialist Configuration

Ranged Sacrificial unit: 3x Terminators combi-meltas -- Used as a fire and forget anti-tank(don't recommend)

 

 

 

Conclusion: While it could be debated that there are other combinations of terminators, that work amazing, and they're probably right , Terminators are a great all round unit, and look so cool, but I feel there are units that do what they do but better. Khorne Beserkers(Melee), and Obliterators(shooting), Like Chosen(hybrid)

 

again its a rough draft, I haven't really done more then jot down my ramblings at this point

[Jarulek]

I'm looking for if its worth having all the termies. I am thinking of fielding either 2 10 man squads or 4 5 man, with different configs for purposes. IE 1 tankhunting with meltas and max chain fists, 1 with heavy flamer and pw for horde etc. specialised termies for fun.

 

How are you gonna field 4 Termi squads in a non-apoc game?

[kharn_the_betrayer]

Odds are it will just be one or two a game, but since my modeling skills are non-existand I will be using list tailoring to a different extent or building 2 squads of 10, I haven't decided yet. Also I am not running all termies b/c termies are all powerful. I have never used them much before just looking to expand my army a bit and wondering where overkill comes in.

[teh_perfesser]

If you think you cannot win with more than a few terms than you are literally just shorting yourself. There are more tactics to this game than a single "termi-cide" option for your terms, i really dont understand comments like this and im not just targetting you out you are just the last one to post bro :lol:

I'm not a termi-cide guy. I just know that as one of the optimal uses, so I'm at a loss as to what the other optimal uses would be.

 

I'd rather field double melta bikes or Raptors as I think those units have a lot more 'fun' factor. I'll be making a 4 termie squad once I pick up the Black Reach box (I'm getting the box for the Dreadnaught--that how little I care about competitiveness).

 

The writings of TheJeske arnt gospel when it comes to winning

Agreed. While the combined works of the jeske's not the gospel of winning, they are a gospel of effectiveness. And although I don't really think that the most effective list are much fun, it's good to understand these lists and units and how they are used--the theory behind effective termie use can be applied elsewhere, to the units I want to field.

 

Not all advice is useful, but I want it anyhow. I'll pick out the gems of wisdom ;) I'd love to hear how you use Possessed (in dedicated thread, obviously) -- I have 5 unpainted and I'll bump that to 10 painted Possessed if I can learn how to use them.

[Varney]

In the old codex, I've always wanted to use two 7-man strong squads with double Reaper Autocannons and some Power Fists thrown in to the mix. Tanks? I don't need tanks!

[Aarhus]

33 Terminators is too many.

32 is just right!

 

 

Cheers,

Lawrence.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I'm thinking of dropping all the champions out of my squads for more powerfist terminators. That would be another whole 3-4 man squad of them 0_o

The question is am i better off with one small-medium sized termi squad and pfist champs on my zerks, plagues etc or 2 med size term squads/3small squads and no champs?

[the jeske]

So how would you incorporate 8 terminators into one of your lists? I can't figure it out; almost everything I know about competitive Chaos armies comes from your writing, so I must have missed something...

wow i didnt mean to use those in one unit . this are the set ups I have seen/used in more or less effective armies . 2x3 units , 1x6 unit [more of a "for fun "set up], 2x4 [more then 1,75pts] . 8 models is what you need max in a normal sized chaos army not ment for apo play . specially a you wont need any terminators for HQs.

 

The writings of TheJeske arnt gospel when it comes to winning, he is a very good player i have no doubt but this isnt math nor is it science you break one unit down and say "this is totally not viable" cept for the dreadnot there is no hope for that thing

we tested possessed lists for the 4ed and just like we tested the chosen list [well as an AL I really wanted it to work] . the random factor made the possessed to unpredicitble to use . It may be ok in games with friends . But when you need 4 17/3 on one day a unit that sometimes works and sometimes doesnt is bad . specially as it fights for points with really good all round options like oblits and pms/csm .

[Corvus Corone]

Im no spikeyboy, but my loyalist list has 15 terms in 1500pts and they rule. Love em. If I were a spikeyboy player, I'd take more if possible, because they're cheaper and come with much better customization options.

[Smurfalypse]

in normal owning more then 8 has non sense.

I know the cheap "3 terminators with combi-meltas deep striking suicide squad"--that makes a lot of sense. Then I've seen a whole lot of "5 terminators, all champions, 2 pairs of lightning claws, reaper autocannon, 3 chainfists, Icon of Nurgle" set ups that really don't make sense even in non-tournament, non-competitive, 'just for fun' lists.

 

So how would you incorporate 8 terminators into one of your lists? I can't figure it out; almost everything I know about competitive Chaos armies comes from your writing, so I must have missed something...

 

If you think you cannot win with more than a few terms than you are literally just shorting yourself. There are more tactics to this game than a single "termi-cide" option for your terms, i really dont understand comments like this and im not just targetting you out you are just the last one to post bro :tu:

 

Im not bragging BUT i literally win easily 95% of my games, including tournament play. My base 1500 list has 10 possessed and 10 terms and people go through fits trying to handle them. Just remember, this is a tactics based game not an "I own this therefor my army is better" game, your tactics have to fit your models and vice versa. Im fairly certain you probably have maybe used possessed once maybe twice and gave up on them, and im fairly positive you have NEVER tried anything other than termi-cide, if not try something else and see how it works out...The writings of TheJeske arnt gospel when it comes to winning, he is a very good player i have no doubt but this isnt math nor is it science you break one unit down and say "this is totally not viable" cept for the dreadnot there is no hope for that thing ;)

 

Just my two cents bro.

 

 

I'd love to play against an army with 10 possessed and 10 terminators, I have 52ish bolters in my 1500pt list, I'd love to drown that many points in bolter shells!!

 

That being said, I'm writing an article currently on competitive play, and my Termie Entry reads: (its a rough draft)

 

Terminators: The Most cost-effective power weapon option you probably shouldn't use:

 

Terminators are cheap for what they bring to the table, naked for double the cost of a standard marine you get a power weapon, 2+ Armor save, and 5+ invuln, a twin linked bolter, and 2 attacks base (you do lose grenades and the second combat weapon) However they bring just as many problems to the table, for being such an awesome melee slayer unit.

Primarily that Big Clunky Armor.

 

First off it suffers from "How do we Get there syndrome" For a melee murder unit, it doesn't have a reliable way to get to melee combat early, it needs to be deepstriked close to the enemy (where you can't assault the turn you land) furthermore you could get many reserve rolls that delay it till turn 5, and then you'll never get to assault with them...

 

If you're going to deepstrike them, now you have to give it guns to make it affective the turn it lands, Combi-weapons are an excellent source of fire-once-and-forget weapons.

 

I feel obliterators handle this duty better, as a more flexible unit.

 

The other option is to foot slog them, but they are wasting their time that way.

 

The Final, and in my opinion best option is to put them in a land raider, this way they can murder when they land, the problem is that now they are limited to 5 man squads, and that Raider is a BIG Target for meltas "see my meltagun section"

 

Suggested Configuration:

Land Raider(daemonic possession): 4 Man, H. 1 flamer all power weapons with lord(your choice of lord) in terminator Armor. Mark of Khorne

 

Alternative Configuations:

Ranged Deepstrike Squad: 9 man H. Flammer, Mark of Tzeentch Combi weapons to taste (expensive but murder-iffic) Accompanying a lord.

 

Melee counter-charge unit. 9 Man H. Flammer Acompanying CC character, Mark of Khorne (cheap and effective Specailty troop murderer)

 

Minimialist Configuration

Ranged Sacrificial unit: 3x Terminators combi-meltas -- Used as a fire and forget anti-tank(don't recommend)

 

 

 

Conclusion: While it could be debated that there are other combinations of terminators, that work amazing, and they're probably right , Terminators are a great all round unit, and look so cool, but I feel there are units that do what they do but better. Khorne Beserkers(Melee), and Obliterators(shooting), Like Chosen(hybrid)

 

again its a rough draft, I haven't really done more then jot down my ramblings at this point

 

I would love to play you as well and show you just how wrong you and most others are about possessed and large term sizes :P

[Smurfalypse]

So how would you incorporate 8 terminators into one of your lists? I can't figure it out; almost everything I know about competitive Chaos armies comes from your writing, so I must have missed something...

wow i didnt mean to use those in one unit . this are the set ups I have seen/used in more or less effective armies . 2x3 units , 1x6 unit [more of a "for fun "set up], 2x4 [more then 1,75pts] . 8 models is what you need max in a normal sized chaos army not ment for apo play . specially a you wont need any terminators for HQs.

 

The writings of TheJeske arnt gospel when it comes to winning, he is a very good player i have no doubt but this isnt math nor is it science you break one unit down and say "this is totally not viable" cept for the dreadnot there is no hope for that thing

we tested possessed lists for the 4ed and just like we tested the chosen list [well as an AL I really wanted it to work] . the random factor made the possessed to unpredicitble to use . It may be ok in games with friends . But when you need 4 17/3 on one day a unit that sometimes works and sometimes doesnt is bad . specially as it fights for points with really good all round options like oblits and pms/csm .

 

I win most of my tournies with possessed. In my ard boyz list i got 20 right now and 20 terms along with a pile of troops, i tend to roll everyone i play and we have them make their lists 3k. Hopefully it goes well, if not and its the possessed who failed me, all of you an tell me "i told you so". :tu: