Smurfalypse Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 So this kinda came up on the army list section of the forums but no one actually answered my little hint. My friends all tell me it should work, none of them play chaos but they all agree the wording means it would work. I disagree 100% but i want to ask anyhow because ive been known to be wrong...alot... Fabius' rule reads "for 3+ pts per model, any number of chaos space marine squads can be 'enhanced' by biles treatment. The question was, obviously chaos space marine units would be able to buy this. What about "Possessed Chaos Space Marines" and "Chosen Chaos Space Marines"? Im not just adding on the "chaos space marine" part, they are really listed that way...go check real fast, i will wait here.../waiting /waiting /waiting...Did dyu see? Dude I know...and there is nothing in the FAQ that clears that up. So does it work or not? Str 7 possessed??? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/143065-fabius-bile-question/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenocidal Maniac Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 No. I think it's very clear that only "Chaos Space Marines" may be upgraded in this way. Nice try, tho! <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/143065-fabius-bile-question/#findComment-1656446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelias Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 yup, i'm afraid it's only Chaos space marine basic squads, still it's a powerful tool and i basically treat my enhanced marine like a 5th "cult" only they can become even better by adding icons. also be sure to use rhino's for them, if you get a bad roll for the enhancements you want them in HtH as soon as possible so they can start doing some damage before dropping like flies :) i've really had huge amounts of fun with my Fabius Bile army and tbh in most of my games Bile himself has been surprising good(maybe because of my low expectation of him),alas it's getting put to bed now as i'm returning to Black Legion due to the new marine codex............ fight fire with fire, i'm ready to unleash a new black crusade led by Abbaddon <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/143065-fabius-bile-question/#findComment-1656476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roultox Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Recently everything made for 5th edition (even the chaos codex was made for 5th) is all specificly worded out, if it says "Chaos Space Marines" then it means just "Chaos Space Marines". And not Chaos Space Marine Biker/CSM Lord, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/143065-fabius-bile-question/#findComment-1656583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted August 8, 2008 Author Share Posted August 8, 2008 Recently everything made for 5th edition (even the chaos codex was made for 5th) is all specificly worded out, if it says "Chaos Space Marines" then it means just "Chaos Space Marines". And not Chaos Space Marine Biker/CSM Lord, etc. Thats exactly my point. It doesnt word it "Chaos Space Marine Lord" or "Chaos Space Marine Sorcerer" it just says "Chaos Lord" and "Chaos Sorcerer"...However it does word the possessed as "Possessed CHAOS SPACE MARINES" and chosen as "Chosen CHAOS SPACE MARINES". Besides the base chaos space marines no other units are worded as such, and to be honest i have yet to hear an explanation that would verify that it doesnt work. Do i think it works...No i dont, BUT word for word i absolutely believe that it might work or at least the argument that it does is semi-valid. All ive heard so far is "it doesnt work sorry, nice try" type stuff and not "this is why it doesnt work" Roultox did explain a bit, but he actually in a way validated that it should work by focusing on the wording, the fact that those two units outside of ALL others is worded with the same words as it says bile can enhance is very compelling for me :huh: Again, I really dont think it should work or does work. Just pointing out word for word from the codex and looking for an exact reason as to why it doesnt. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/143065-fabius-bile-question/#findComment-1656643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Ok I actually looked at the dex (it was close by or I wouldn't have bothered :huh: ). It says that any number of Chaos Space Marines can be enhanced. It does not say possessed csm's or chosen csm's, they are different entries in the dex. Try using it against one of the people that say you should be able to do it if you want, just to see how it wks. I wouldn't try it against anyone else though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/143065-fabius-bile-question/#findComment-1656655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted August 8, 2008 Author Share Posted August 8, 2008 Ok I actually looked at the dex (it was close by or I wouldn't have bothered :P ).It says that any number of Chaos Space Marines can be enhanced. It does not say possessed csm's or chosen csm's, they are different entries in the dex. Try using it against one of the people that say you should be able to do it if you want, just to see how it wks. I wouldn't try it against anyone else though. There you go, that makes sense. On the flip side however, a little question. Are possessed chaos space marines? Are chosen chaos space marines?...The answer still has to be yes, because it is in their full name. :P And HECK NO! would i try this at any game :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/143065-fabius-bile-question/#findComment-1656698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalrik Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 In any codex printed since the Eldar/ork/Darkangel/blood angel you need to take the Rules LITERALLY AKA RAW (or Ruled as Written) bile states "Chaos Space Marines" may be augmented, Exactly that, "Chaos Space Marines" -- The squad, not the army, as in the entry that can be augmented MUST EXACTLY READ "Chaos Space Marines" -- It may have no fewer words, it may have no greater words. So only Basic "Chaos Space Marines" Squads can be augmented. But Nice try. I've seen a fairly effective Army made by giving CSM squads Biles ability and IoK Seriously, its the lawyer in me. (I ate one) But since they started writing codexes this way, its much more clear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/143065-fabius-bile-question/#findComment-1656931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 nice try but i think only "normal" chaos space marines can take that option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/143065-fabius-bile-question/#findComment-1656972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruinous Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 It's worth noting that on page 26 of the codex under the entry "Chaos Space Marine" there are 5 units listed including Chaos Space Marine, Chosen, Aspiring Champion, Chaos Biker, and Biker Champion. All of these entries share a similar statline and are not fearless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/143065-fabius-bile-question/#findComment-1657119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joah from Alberta Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 I think Fabius should be able to pump up some Chosen. But that's the thing about this game, the more you think, the more it goes down hill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/143065-fabius-bile-question/#findComment-1657167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted August 8, 2008 Author Share Posted August 8, 2008 In any codex printed since the Eldar/ork/Darkangel/blood angel you need to take the Rules LITERALLY AKA RAW (or Ruled as Written) bile states "Chaos Space Marines" may be augmented, Exactly that, "Chaos Space Marines" -- The squad, not the army, as in the entry that can be augmented MUST EXACTLY READ "Chaos Space Marines" -- It may have no fewer words, it may have no greater words. So only Basic "Chaos Space Marines" Squads can be augmented. But Nice try. I've seen a fairly effective Army made by giving CSM squads Biles ability and IoK Seriously, its the lawyer in me. (I ate one) But since they started writing codexes this way, its much more clear. The best argument against it yet :huh: I would agree with you 100% Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/143065-fabius-bile-question/#findComment-1657177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacoknight Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 I'll throw in my two bits with everyone else. It's just for the troop choice called "Chaos Space Marines". This is pretty good though since you could have 6 choices of them and at the very least, they are +1S and Fearless. Not bad for 18 points a pop. In my standard army, I field 4 squads and a squad of possessed (stable mutations). <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/143065-fabius-bile-question/#findComment-1657533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roultox Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 These types of arguments came up before in previous editions... What did GW do? They favored the loyalist marines by saying their "Be Swift As The Wind" applied to all types of bikes temporarily, until they changed it back to "Bike Squads" and not "Attack Bike Squad/Scout Bike Squad". They made it clear then that it has to be specificly named. Even the previous edition of chaos codexes has had the same question asked. Same answer, only Chaos Space Marines. Its an argument that comes up every time the FAQ isnt updated with it in there, GW just assumes people know from previous editions they mean it to the letter. I'll add a bit more to this to finish it off. If you can answer this question with any fifth edition updated codex and/or rulebook entry associating non-specific descriptions allowing to per say, what unit/model is not named to the letter to have a rules change in similar reference to this debate then your side of the argument holds merit to what GW may be aiming for. So far, out of all the new codexes I baught that was aimed for 5th edition, no such reference is found on my part. Perhaps you could find one of similar nature to depicting multiple units of wide description? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/143065-fabius-bile-question/#findComment-1657846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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