Are Chainfists and Reaper Autocannons worth the points?

[Gorgamere]

Now that the 5th ed rules make all assault attacks roll against the rear armour for armour penetration, are Chainfists worth the points? Sure, when I have to take out a Landraider, I'll really wish I had a Chainfist or two, but most tanks have a rear value of 10, which makes me think the trusty Powerfist is fine for my Chaos Terminators. What are your thoughts?

 

Is anyone planning on using Reaper Autocannons with their Terminators? They are a tad overpriced, but are a decent mid/long range gun for anti-troop and light vehicles, and they look good on a model. Will you have them in your list?

 

Gorgamere

[Azadul]

Well to be frank i don't use my terminators for anti-tank, they are just too slow, however i always have one chainfist(just in case), the others are single lightning claws and power weapons.

 

As for the reaper autocannon, i find that it is a complete waste of points, at strength 7 and the new rules tanks are a lot harder to kill, also it only has 2 shots against infantry, not the best.

 

i now use a heavy flamer, and 4 combi-weapons. I am going to try out the flamers, use an icon to deep strike right next to flimsy squad, troops preferably and watch as they are roasted.

 

So to answer the question, yes for the chainfist, no for the reaper.

 

Cheers,

Azadul

[Zeller]

I run a chainfist in every squad. With the introduction of 5th edition rules the fact that the chainfist will strike rear armor makes it that much more effective. Consider that a chainfist will ALWAYS glance a tank with rear armor of 10 even if you roll snake eyes. For 5 points I'd say the ability to have a 1/36 chance of not actually penetrating is too good to pass up.

 

Unless you're trying to squeeze every last drop of points from a list and a mere 5 points on a squad or two really seems significant to you then don't bother. I apologize if I'm reading you wrong with respect to how you make lists and game.

 

The reaper is definitely pricey but it is what it is and it gives the terminators the ability to pop light armor from significant range, exactly as the autocannon is designed for.

[Roultox]

1 Chainfist is always worth the points. For one, its a powerfist, cant argue with a powerfist and its usefulness and that the extra attack negation for 2 weapons doesnt matter with a terminator. Secondly, the few extra points for 2D6 penetration is worthwhile just for the added numbers so those pesky 1's, 2's and 3's dont hamper your progress against weak rear values.

 

Reaper Autocannons shouldn't be generalized on the basis of tank hunting, they're multi role weapons and have their purpose, also putting some R-AC's in elite slot is never a bad pick. (If you look at force org as in what heavy weapons can be stuffed into each slot)

[the jeske]

one is a two shot auto canon and theother is an over priced pice of gear for a unit that shouldnt see a lot of hth . the problems with the chain fist is that if you really want to use it you have to make its bearer an asp champion to be sure that it actually hits at least once . as wounding tanks with normal fists isnt really a problem in all cases save the land raider [and how did it get pass those combi weapons alive?] . Strong no to both.

[Brother Nihm]

In the previous edition one chainfist was a nice piece of kit to have in my opinion but now, both it and the Reaper are just shiny (and pricey) toys.

[Sception]

Having a couple fists in a larger squad of termies, or jurt one in a small squad, is a good idea. Further upgrading to a chain fist is only 5 more points. If you have 5 spare points, it can be worth it to protect your termies from walkers. even then, only one, and in a larger squad it should be on a champ. If you aren't worried about walkers, then you're better off spending those 5 points elsewhere.

 

Autocannons in general, and reapers in particular, have been lousy since 3rd edition.

[chillin]

I always think the CF is worth it, just as good vs MC's, twice as good vs armor.

I would sometimes run 2 reapers in a 10 man termi squad (2 reapers in smaller squad in 3rd ed.).

In 5th ed., I don't know that I'm going to have a place for the reaper, which sux b/c I really like them, fluffwise, just don't know if they're worth it on tabletop.

[Prot]

My own two cents?

 

I used to believe heavily in the chainfist, but with the new assault rules on vehicles, you always get rear armour. The Chainfist still holds charm for me though against Dreads and stuff like Landriaders (which guarantee we will see more of), they're still gold.

 

The Reaper lost its charm with me. Since the latest chaos codex came out I've taken the heavy flamer and never looked back. Now in 5th ed I believe it's even better robbing inevitable cover from the likes of IG, etc.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I would probably use the reaper if the heavy flamer didn't exist. But the heavy flamer is so cheap and so awesome that it can't be refused. The reaper would have to cost the same amount to be worth taking over it.

[Gorgamere]

So for all you Heavy Flamer fans out there, how often do you get to shoot this weapon in a game? I'm assuming you are running the Heavy Flamer with a unit of short-ranged/assault oriented Terminators. My biggest concern is that I would only get to use it about once per game, whereas with the Reaper I've had many games where I was shooting that thing every turn.

 

Please add your preferred tactics using a squad with a Heavy Flamer.

 

Thanks,

 

Gorgamere

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I use heavy flamer on my deepstrike squads. My berzerkers have personal icons, so normally they come in close to the action. So they fire the turn they land, then unless they get charged, they fire again the next turn on their way into cc. Then often they fire again on the way to the next cc. There have been games where i've only gotten to fire it once, but there have been more when i've got to fire it 3 times. Usually its 2-3 shots from it. vs power armor each shot is killing a couple marines, and against stuff that +4 save its tons of kills pershot. Its murder vs guard, ork and tyranid of course. So over the course of a game my heavy flamer often claims 5-6 marines or 8-15 guard/fire warriors. Seeing as the reaper will fire 10-14 shots a game thats a good deal, and its dirt cheap.

[Seahawk]

I almost always see action with chainfists and reapers. That being said, I always have one of each in my terminator squads, on the same model. I'd say use them, as they are effective at dealing with almost anything.

[L0NEW0LF]

a single chainfist for me in a sqd is a must IMO "just in case"

as to the reaper well i'm more undecided on that i like the "long range" ability of it but then again my termies are assault boys (i'm a Worldeater by the way :wink:) so they shouldnt be shooting longrange so a hvy flamer would be more usefull if im taking a gun at all (i'm planning all L.claws and 1 member with chainfist/hvy flamer)

[Mr L]

I think the chainfist is a must but the reaper autocannon is to expensive IMO. I always run an heavy flammer (chainfist and heavy flammer hold by the same champion).

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I think the chainfist is a must but the reaper autocannon is to expensive IMO. I always run an heavy flammer (chainfist and heavy flammer hold by the same champion).

 

I notice a couple people now have mentioned that they stack lots of wargear on the same guy. Given how small termy squads are, and the new wound allocation, is this a good idea? A chainfist heavy flamer champ is 60 pts, thats a lot for one guy even by terminator standards. If he's the only special guy in a squad of 5 or so then it might be okay since you have 4 others that are the same to try to take wounds on first, but its still sort of putting all your eggs in one basket isn't it?

[Phendrana]

My terminator squad - I only have the one, and field it about 40% of the time - takes the chain fist and distributes the gear among the group. I feel pretty good about that choice in 5th edition.

 

1 w/ lightning claws, 2 w/ combi-meltas, 1 w/ combi-melta and MoK, 1 w/ chain fist & heavy flamer, 1 w/ lightning claws

[King Tiger]

personally I never would use chainfists or autocannons on chaos terminators, I'd still stick to 5 twin-linked bolters and 5 power weapons

[Jarulek]

I notice a couple people now have mentioned that they stack lots of wargear on the same guy. Given how small termy squads are, and the new wound allocation, is this a good idea? A chainfist heavy flamer champ is 60 pts, thats a lot for one guy even by terminator standards. If he's the only special guy in a squad of 5 or so then it might be okay since you have 4 others that are the same to try to take wounds on first, but its still sort of putting all your eggs in one basket isn't it?

 

Yeah, I noticed that too. Doesn't seem like a very smart thing to do unless you pack lots of shiny stuff on 3 or 4 Terminators. But most people pack every Termie with a powerfist and combiweapon these days.

[Corvus Corone]

The chainfist is very welcome when a troublesome walker gets into h2h, and with the prospect of ironclads looming, perhaps even more so.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

The chainfist is very welcome when a troublesome walker gets into h2h, and with the prospect of ironclads looming, perhaps even more so.

 

Thats definetly a good point, especially since everyone and their brother is going to run one at first just for fun.

[Seahawk]

I notice a couple people now have mentioned that they stack lots of wargear on the same guy. Given how small termy squads are, and the new wound allocation, is this a good idea? A chainfist heavy flamer champ is 60 pts, thats a lot for one guy even by terminator standards. If he's the only special guy in a squad of 5 or so then it might be okay since you have 4 others that are the same to try to take wounds on first, but its still sort of putting all your eggs in one basket isn't it?

 

Yeah, I noticed that too. Doesn't seem like a very smart thing to do unless you pack lots of shiny stuff on 3 or 4 Terminators. But most people pack every Termie with a powerfist and combiweapon these days.

 

 

I never take squads of less than 5. I don't run small squads with any army as I figure they die too fast. I'm usually proven right. Thus the larger squad sizes and the allowance for good equipment. Plus it saves a headache when I have 4 terminators with regular stuff and 1 terminator with all the goods, rather than 2 terminators regular and 3 terminators with different things. Stuff tends to stay alive better than way too.

[Mr L]

I think the chainfist is a must but the reaper autocannon is to expensive IMO. I always run an heavy flammer (chainfist and heavy flammer hold by the same champion).

 

 

Is there something I missed with the new rules? Why souldn't have all the gear on one guy? ;)

[Phendrana]

You now allocate wounds before saves and they must be allocated evenly across the target unit - meaning if you have seven wounds on a five model unit, the player would have to allocate a wound to each model and then pick two models to get two more - then you roll the saves. It makes it more likely a special model within a unit will be wounded before everyone else does. So if loaded up a single terminator with tonnes of gear and upgrades and left the other four terminators without any upgrades, I'm risking losing that uber-model to a failed save. Before, I could avoid allocating wounds to an uber-model as allocation happened after saving throws.

[Maddog176]

well no not really actually last ed there was torrent of fire so if they caused 7 wounds on your termies they could put one of the dude with everything anyway. Now it just means more if you spread your gear out as well because you have to take all the different dudes separately. Either way as they both have there advantages and disadvantages really.