Fabius Bile, Enhanced Warriors & Random Icon Q's

[Warfare]

OK, i can see that there is a similar topic a page before buti thought i would just go for it anyway!

 

 

 

#1 Always been rather confused by what "if a model suffers one or more wounds..." is supposed to mean. I take it to mean after armour saving throws have been taken thus making bile effectively have 5(6) normal cc attacks where he will instakill if any armour saves are failed as opposed to having 5(6) power weapon attacks with instakill but just want to confirm this.

 

Also, is he really worth the 160 points (and does the option of enhance warriors help swing this) when you could in all likelyhood get a cheaper and about as effective (say) sorceror for a reduced price?

 

#2 For 3 points, is the enhance warriors bonus really worth it seeing as for another 3 points you almost get the same troops with +1 WS, & I in khorne bezerkers (and does having a consistant +1 S outweight having a definate +1 WS and having the possibility for +1 S & I)?

 

#4 Bit of a lazy question as im sure i have seen the answer somewhere but: Can an icon bearer be killed in the same way as a special weapon trooper/sergeant or would the icon be "picked by another trooper" in the same way standards would be picked up by models in the same regiment in a game of fantasy warhammer?

 

 

 

Thanks for any help.

[davidren2401]

OK, i can see that there is a similar topic a page before buti thought i would just go for it anyway!

 

 

 

#1 Always been rather confused by what "if a model suffers one or more wounds..." is supposed to mean. I take it to mean after armour saving throws have been taken thus making bile effectively have 5(6) normal cc attacks where he will instakill if any armour saves are failed as opposed to having 5(6) power weapon attacks with instakill but just want to confirm this.

 

Also, is he really worth the 160 points (and does the option of enhance warriors help swing this) when you could in all likelyhood get a cheaper and about as effective (say) sorceror for a reduced price?

 

#2 For 3 points, is the enhance warriors bonus really worth it seeing as for another 3 points you almost get the same troops with +1 WS, & I in khorne bezerkers (and does having a consistant +1 S outweight having a definate +1 WS and having the possibility for +1 S & I)?

 

#4 Bit of a lazy question as im sure i have seen the answer somewhere but: Can an icon bearer be killed in the same way as a special weapon trooper/sergeant or would the icon be "picked by another trooper" in the same way standards would be picked up by models in the same regiment in a game of fantasy warhammer?

 

 

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Your first interpetation of Bile's weapon is correct. As for his effectiveness, I've never taken him so what follows is pure conjecture but the main problem with icon troops (not so much unidivided but the 4 god ones) is that they scare too easy, Bile offers a way to make them fearless. A good solution to a poinient problem.

 

As for your icon question, if your unit numbers 8 models and they suffer 8 wounds, 1 wound must be allocated to the icon bearer. Aside from sniper weapons this is the only way in which he can be singled out

[Smurfalypse]

The enhanced warriors option is indeed worth it 100%. Yes for 3 more points per on top of that you can have khorne berzerkers BUT that doesnt give you an option of weaponry. Figure a rhino unit of 10 CSMs with icon of khorne, enhanced, flamer, meltagun, champ with power first and maybe a combi-melta for around 260ish points (give or take a few as i did the math in my head). This is all str 5 minimum and a str 9 power fist with 3 attacks each standing still and 4 on the charge, this FAR outdoes the zerkers when you add in the shooting benifits to the unit and for all around the same general points. Zerker unit x10 w/champ and power fist for 250, no other upgrades so literally 0 shooting options at all.

 

This benefit also goes well with some other icons. Init 5 str 5 is fairly good i hear, 5+ invuln is handy for survival purposes, so there are a few options with this and i think all of them are defiantly worth it, cept for the icon of nurgle which has its own post talking about that actually. Also if a unit rolls a 6 you can leave them in reserve and stick them in a vehicle and bring them on the board later so you dont have to remove casualties till later in the game. Im not sure when you roll for the enhanced ability, before or after deployment i would have to go look in my codex which is out in my car :P

 

Just my two cents.

[Cornelias]

i've been playing a Bile army since the 3.5 dex and can only echo what Smurfalypse mentions, 10 strong enhanced squads with an icon perform amazingly well and are often underestimated. it's also the most fun i've had playing an army for years.

 

i've always had low expectations of Bile himself but he has a tendancy to surprise you from time to time, his main strength lies in giving you the enhanced troops option. in larger points games, maybe 1750+, i'll always take a second HQ of some type(lord/prince/sorc) that'll perform much better and present a juicer target often leaving bile to go about his business unoticed :P

[Deacoknight]

I'm with Cornelias on this one. I do the same thing. In the grand scheme of things, I think the +1S and Fearless is worth the 3 extra points per guy. S5 marines is always a good thing.

 

I do usually take an undivided lord with a daemon weapon to hang out with Bile though.

[Roultox]

Khorne Icon is like a % of another marine in terms of sheer damage potential, making it almost always useful.

Slaanesh Icon is for the rare occasion where I4 is encountered, and you need an enhancement there.

Tzeentch Icon makes them great against power weaponry, and on the occasion they get struck by heavy weapons.

Nurgle Icon is the top end, because when they get stuck in melee, only the hardest hitting units wont care about this icon.

[the jeske]

my view . what ever the bonus is , they are still sm . the stat bufs dont change how are they hit from shoting or from hth , they die like normal sm and as much as one would like not to , they can not be played in a different way then normal csm . they are still [even with the +1str] a close fire squad first and a melee squad second . Puting an icon on them puts another [random cant control it] element of both points increase and those sad moment when something goes wrong [pre battle dead = bad . losing icon bearer= bad].

a 10 man strong squad with a rhinos asp champion + an icon isnt so cheap any more [not that chaos has cheap troop choices] , specially if compared to the cult troops .

 

Also to get the buff one has to sacriffice one slot to take Bile . Now in the case of sm "special" characters , the army buff can be very significant [am not saying in all cases] and the character is still ok . Fabius is not really good at shoting , not really good at hth and he is slow + he takes up a slot for good units like some lords or DPs.

I dont think he is worth the pts and the time to build an army list using him .

[Cornelias]

my view . what ever the bonus is , they are still sm . the stat bufs dont change how are they hit from shoting or from hth , they die like normal sm and as much as one would like not to , they can not be played in a different way then normal csm . they are still [even with the +1str] a close fire squad first and a melee squad second . Puting an icon on them puts another [random cant control it] element of both points increase and those sad moment when something goes wrong [pre battle dead = bad . losing icon bearer= bad].

a 10 man strong squad with a rhinos asp champion + an icon isnt so cheap any more [not that chaos has cheap troop choices] , specially if compared to the cult troops .

 

Also to get the buff one has to sacriffice one slot to take Bile . Now in the case of sm "special" characters , the army buff can be very significant [am not saying in all cases] and the character is still ok . Fabius is not really good at shoting , not really good at hth and he is slow + he takes up a slot for good units like some lords or DPs.

I dont think he is worth the pts and the time to build an army list using him .

 

well i disagree totally with you, i've done ok for the past few years using this army in both the 3.5 dex and the current one and i can say it was alot of fun.

 

not trying to be funny or anything but sometimes peoples opinions/theories can be wrong............

[Warfare]

Your first interpetation of Bile's weapon is correct. As for his effectiveness, I've never taken him so what follows is pure conjecture but the main problem with icon troops (not so much unidivided but the 4 god ones) is that they scare too easy, Bile offers a way to make them fearless. A good solution to a poinient problem.

 

As for your icon question, if your unit numbers 8 models and they suffer 8 wounds, 1 wound must be allocated to the icon bearer. Aside from sniper weapons this is the only way in which he can be singled out

Thanks for clearing that up. Seems a bit stupid as carrying a banner doesnt normally require special training but meh, its chaos i guess.

 

The enhanced warriors option is indeed worth it 100%. Yes for 3 more points per on top of that you can have khorne berzerkers BUT that doesnt give you an option of weaponry. Figure a rhino unit of 10 CSMs with icon of khorne, enhanced, flamer, meltagun, champ with power first and maybe a combi-melta for around 260ish points (give or take a few as i did the math in my head). This is all str 5 minimum and a str 9 power fist with 3 attacks each standing still and 4 on the charge, this FAR outdoes the zerkers when you add in the shooting benifits to the unit and for all around the same general points. Zerker unit x10 w/champ and power fist for 250, no other upgrades so literally 0 shooting options at all.

 

my view . what ever the bonus is , they are still sm . the stat bufs dont change how are they hit from shoting or from hth , they die like normal sm and as much as one would like not to , they can not be played in a different way then normal csm . they are still [even with the +1str] a close fire squad first and a melee squad second . Puting an icon on them puts another [random cant control it] element of both points increase and those sad moment when something goes wrong [pre battle dead = bad . losing icon bearer= bad].

a 10 man strong squad with a rhinos asp champion + an icon isnt so cheap any more [not that chaos has cheap troop choices] , specially if compared to the cult troops .

 

Also to get the buff one has to sacriffice one slot to take Bile . Now in the case of sm "special" characters , the army buff can be very significant [am not saying in all cases] and the character is still ok . Fabius is not really good at shoting , not really good at hth and he is slow + he takes up a slot for good units like some lords or DPs.

I dont think he is worth the pts and the time to build an army list using him .

yes, a mutation roll of 1 followed up with a 1/2 roll on the icon bearer would suck hard but then again a chaos army would not be so fun to play with if there were a few more random elements that separates them from basic marines ;p

 

 

 

 

Also as another question, i just realised that CSM's come with bolters, a ccw and a bolt pistol. Bearing in mind i have not played too much as of recent and so have been out of the loop in terms of faqs and the like, can a CSM squad use their bolters on one turn then at a later stage use the ccw and pistol in combat and still gain the +1 attack (and visa-versa).

[the jeske]

can a CSM squad use their bolters on one turn then at a later stage use the ccw and pistol in combat and still gain the +1 attack (and visa-versa).

you mean on the same turn ? so like rapid fire and then charge ? not possible the rules say no . but you can fire bolters after dismounting and then get charged by your opponent and use pistols and ccw for more attacks .

 

yes, a mutation roll of 1 followed up with a 1/2 roll on the icon bearer would suck hard but then again a chaos army would not be so fun to play with if there were a few more random elements that separates them from basic marines

lets just say that I dont see randomness [specially in rules] as a fun thing in chaos armies . maybe in WFB orks and goblins , maybe even in W40k orks , but not in chaos . Random =fun . At least not for me .