My Take on Assassins for 5th

[OGNaaman]

Okay,

 

Having real life military experience, and some knowledge and interaction from real life special ops types, I've decided that my original opinon of the 3rd and later assassins was apt. The assassins are supposed to be THE deadliest warriors in the Imperium, and unfortuneately, they simply aren't.

 

So here's my take.

 

WS6 BS6 S4 T4 W4 I6 A4 Ld10 Sv4+

 

Infiltrate

Deep Strike

Stealth

Move Through Cover

Accute Senses/Night Vision etc

Dodge

Fleet

 

Assassins may never be targeted if there is another viable target in range. Independent characters may target assassins according to the normal rules, unless they have joined a unit.

 

An assassin always has a specific battlefield objective that it will concentrate on completing to the exculsion of all other considerations except survivial. It will not target any unit other than it's objective, unless it is assaulted, or unless the unit/model is a direct obstacle en route to his target. Once the assassin's objective is complete, it is removed from the table, disappearing as mysteriously as it arrived (it counts as surviving for the purposes of victory points). The objective depends opon which temple the assassin is from, and the roll of a D6. Each assassin temple rolls on it's own table (I'm still working out the exact mission objectives for the tables). Ideally, a third player should play the assassin.

 

Vindicare:

Sniper: The assassin can target ANY model in line of sight, regardless of range. The model targeted is always the model removed. The owning player may not choose an "alternative" model to remove.

 

(In real life, a sniper--especially one that would be the equivilant to an Imperial assassin--can pick off a target from over a mile away, much farther than the distances represented on the 40K battlefields).

 

Exitus Rifle: Master-crafted sniper rifle with AP2. A roll to wound of 6 inflicts instant death on the target.

 

Exitus Pistol: S5 AP2, pistol

 

Double Tap: The assassin may re-roll any failed To Wound rolls with his exitus pistol. This represents him firing two shots in quick succession to ensure a kill.

 

Exitus Ammo: The assassin may choose any combination of up to three rounds from the following list. He may fire them one per shooting phase from the rifle only (not the pistol).

 

Hellfire: wounds on a 2+ regardless of toughness

Turbo-Penetrator: Causes 2 wounds on a successfull roll to wound. Rolls 2D6+6 for armor penetration

Shield Breaker: Invulnerable saves may not be taken against this round.

 

Spy Mask: The assassin's shooting attacks reduce the effectiveness of cover by 2 (a 4+ cover save becomes 6+ etc).

 

Stealth Suit: Any model wishing to target the assassin must use the nightfighting rules. If nightfighting is in effect, then reduce the detection result in half.

 

*********************************

Callidus

 

C'tan Phase Sword: Counts as a master-crafted weapon that ignores all saves (including invulnerable saves). Any roll to hit of 6 wounds automatically.

 

Neural Shredder: Use the flamer template. The weapon's strength is 8, but use the target's Ld instead of T. So a model with Ld9 is wounded on a roll of 5+. AP2. Roll D3 to penetrate vehicle armor. Glancing hits only.

 

Poison Blades: At the beginning of any assault, the assassin my strike with a poison blade before initiative is taken into consideration (perhaps should just be "strikes at I10" to avoid confusion). Hit's on a 3+, wounds on 4+ regardless of tougness. Counts as rending. One attack per assault phase.

 

Polymorphine: Assassin may be placed anywhere on the table when she becomes available from reserves. She may move, shoot and assault as soon as she arrives.

 

Evasion: May re-roll one saving throw per turn.

 

A Word In Your Ear: Assassin player may move one enemy unit up to 6" (12"?) after deployment, but before the game begins (before scouts move etc).

 

Jump Back: The assassin my "hit and run." She moves 3D6" out of combat. The enemy can only consolidate.

 

********************************

Eversor

 

Has master-crafted power sword and melta bombs

 

Neural Guantlet: Count's as a master-crafted weapon. May make one attack per turn with the guantlet. Wounds on a 2+ regardless of target's toughness, ignores armor saves.

 

Executioner Pistol: Master-crafted weapon. Can fire as either a bolt pistol or a needle pistol. Needle pistol wounds on a 4+ and has AP6 (rending).

 

Combat Drugs: The assassin uses the furious charge special rule, and can charge 12".

 

Combat Master (dervied from 2nd Ed): The assassin gains +D6 attacks if he is outnumbered in close combat.

 

Fast Shot: May fire a number of times equal to his A characteristics (if it ever changes from 4, this ability changes accordingly).

 

***********************************

 

I'm still working on the Culexus... not too familiar with these guys, as I rarely used them.

[Auedawen]

Well, originally I was going to say 4 wounds was way too much. But then you tossed in the bit about their Objective. Honestly...I really like it. Much more fitting than the current "An assassin is helping you out...wooo!" deal they have. They look VERY powerful, however the fact that they may essentially only do one thing in each game they aren't OP. Because of this you may even be able to keep their points about the same (a price hike for the Eversore is likely in order though).

 

I don't think you should have the rule where the Assassin can't be shot at as long as another viable target is within range. This pretty much guarantees them to get to their objective, which shouldn't be so certain. There is no rule saying that they must move STRAIGHT to their objective (like holy rage), so IMO, the Assassin's survival should be dependent upon the owning players skill, not an incredible rule.

 

Otherwise good idea!

[Gentlemanloser]

The assaulty Assassins need Offensive Grenades. I'd also give them Defensive. :)

 

Roll D3 to penetrate vehicle armor. Glancing hits only.

 

Now Glancing hits give a -2 on the Damage table, that means you could only get a result of 1.

[frod]

I think despite the fact that they have objectives 4 wounds are too many, primarily since you have said that they cannot be targeted save by independant characters unless they are the only valid target, I'd be inclined to keep them at 2 W or at most allow them 3

[InquisitorPhred]

Definitely agree 4 wounds is too much. In the greater 40K world, 4 wounds is a monstrous creature, plain and simple. Dante, Lord of all Blood Angels, veteran of 1100 years of continuous war, possibly the mightiest among all loyal Astartes... has 3 wounds =) Protection from instant death is generally the next step up in character upgrade after the 3rd wound, rather than a 4th wound.

[Charred Heretic]

I'd still like to hear about the Culexus and how to synergize his special Ld drain with a few Inquisitors using some of their powers that force Morale checks. I think the forum could definitely benefit from an insightful view.

[- 7eAL -]

Exitus Pistol: S5 AP2, pistol

Double Tap: The assassin may re-roll any failed To Wound rolls with his exitus pistol. This represents him firing two shots in quick succession to ensure a kill.

Is it not correct that military training teaches a person to fire three shots with a pistol in order to get confirmed kills? One to the head, two to the chest. Chances of the target getting up again are far reduced even if a shot misses or if the person is wearing some light armour. Double Tap is a good representation for this, but it seems "incorrect" to apply this only to Vindicare assassins and not the Exitus. It's also the same as master-crafting, so a different special rule seems to make it redundant.

 

(As an aside, master-crafting the Exitus sniper rifle is very sensible. A sniper of this caliber should not be dispatched with any second-rate equipment. He should also be able to have complete faith in his equipment, so the very idea that someone else can make a better rifle for him should not be encouraged.)

 

Executioner Pistol: Master-crafted weapon. Can fire as either a bolt pistol or a needle pistol. Needle pistol wounds on a 4+ and has AP6 (rending).

Fast Shot: May fire a number of times equal to his A characteristics (if it ever changes from 4, this ability changes accordingly).

A pistol has only a fixed firing rate. Fast Shot based on the number of Attacks only makes sense in terms of the speed at which the assassin can squeeze the trigger, but even this is invalidated if he is given a fully automatic pistol. Being a "fast shot" usually refers to the speed at which a pseron can take aim before firing, so he is expected to take out more targets with greater accuracy than an ordinary soldier when using the same rate of fire. To represent this, Rending and rerolling hits would be better - though adding those bonuses to the Executioner Pistol itself then only makes it redundant.

[Rival]

Weapons may have a fixed firing rate (ok, some can change between full, semi, and burst, but ignore that), but that doesn't mean you can fire ever shot with the same precision. I think the rule is fitting, representing the assassin's ability to aim at a fast rate, not him increasing the capabilities of the weapon.

[- 7eAL -]

Weapons may have a fixed firing rate (ok, some can change between full, semi, and burst, but ignore that), but that doesn't mean you can fire ever shot with the same precision. I think the rule is fitting, representing the assassin's ability to aim at a fast rate, not him increasing the capabilities of the weapon.

If it's based on his Attacks value, then he can potentially have his number of attacks boosted or decreased in some way that will unduly affect the pistol, you see.€ Someone may try to claim that he gets +d6 pistol shots on the turn that he charges into assault, because he gets +d6 attacks for charging on the same turn. If we need more shots on the pistol without actually adding any rules or allowing changes to his attacks, then we can suggest that the pistol stats be adjusted to 4 shots, like the situation that occurred to Pedro Cantor's storm bolter. It fires at Assault 4 instead of the normal Assault 2 (in addition to the other improvements to AP).

[Toogeloo]

Hellfire: wounds on a 2+ regardless of toughness

Turbo-Penetrator: Causes 2 wounds on a successfull roll to wound. Rolls 2D6+6 for armor penetration

Shield Breaker: Invulnerable saves may not be taken against this round.

If we are talking about how we think the Assassins should be, I think the Vindicare should be able to choose how many of each round he takes into battle with him up to 3 total rounds. For example, I doubt a Vindicare would feel he needs to take Shield Breakers or maybe even Turbo Penetrators with him in a battle against Tyranid or Castling Guard with Camoline. A 4th Round (Incendiary Round) would be useful for negating cover saves, and a Vindicare can take 3 of them, or 2 Hellfires and a Turbo-Penetrator. A Vindicare would be prepared for the target he is fighting, not for a variety of what if situations.

 

Neural Shredder: Use the flamer template. The weapon's strength is 8, but use the target's Ld instead of T. So a model with Ld9 is wounded on a roll of 5+. AP2. Roll D3 to penetrate vehicle armor. Glancing hits only.

Taking the AP1 away from the Shredder seems off to me. It is designed to resonate past any armor value and scramble from within. Tanks are thicker and provide some resistance, but the AP1 would allow the D3 to be a shaken or a stunned result on most vehicles, or even a weapon destroyed against open topped.

[- 7eAL -]

Hellfire: wounds on a 2+ regardless of toughness

Turbo-Penetrator: Causes 2 wounds on a successfull roll to wound. Rolls 2D6+6 for armor penetration

Shield Breaker: Invulnerable saves may not be taken against this round.

If we are talking about how we think the Assassins should be, I think the Vindicare should be able to choose how many of each round he takes into battle with him up to 3 total rounds. For example, I doubt a Vindicare would feel he needs to take Shield Breakers or maybe even Turbo Penetrators with him in a battle against Tyranid or Castling Guard with Camoline. A 4th Round (Incendiary Round) would be useful for negating cover saves, and a Vindicare can take 3 of them, or 2 Hellfires and a Turbo-Penetrator. A Vindicare would be prepared for the target he is fighting, not for a variety of what if situations.

If we're honestly talking about how assassins should be, then the Vindicare would never carry anything as pitiful as standard ammunition. Every round should be special in some way because every round should do something to ensure that the target goes down on the first shot, so a Vindicare should carry around a half dozen of each special type to be prepared for any situation.

 

A successful assassin should not rely on any odds that cannot be trusted or any opportunities that can be ruined by chance. The only thing that an assassin has in the field is his or her own equipment, wits and abilities, so carrying only one useful round is definitely not being well-prepared.

 

Edit: Missed a word.

[Eddie Orlock]

A successful assassin should not rely on any odds that cannot be trusted or any opportunities that can be ruined by chance. The only thing that an assassin has in the field is his or her own equipment, wits and abilities, so carrying only one useful round is definitely being well-prepared.

Aye, so that one useful round should wound on a 2 with a re-roll, ignore all saves, and kill outright without recourse to things like 'Eternal Warrior'. Then, having done his job and achieved nearly a 'one shot-one kill' ratio, the vindicare buggers off after turn 1.

 

Fact is, they'll never print that. I do think that Vindicares should take a page from the Stern Gaurd in their next incarnation and pick which of the ammo types they'll fire each turn without regard to limits, but that's just me. Maybe it would make them a little too effective at tank hunting, but it would make them a force to be rekoned with, rather than the unreliable joke they are now.

[- 7eAL -]

A successful assassin should not rely on any odds that cannot be trusted or any opportunities that can be ruined by chance. The only thing that an assassin has in the field is his or her own equipment, wits and abilities, so carrying only one useful round is definitely being well-prepared.

Aye, so that one useful round should wound on a 2 with a re-roll, ignore all saves, and kill outright without recourse to things like 'Eternal Warrior'. Then, having done his job and achieved nearly a 'one shot-one kill' ratio, the vindicare buggers off after turn 1.

 

Fact is, they'll never print that. I do think that Vindicares should take a page from the Stern Gaurd in their next incarnation and pick which of the ammo types they'll fire each turn without regard to limits, but that's just me. Maybe it would make them a little too effective at tank hunting, but it would make them a force to be rekoned with, rather than the unreliable joke they are now.

I agree with you. You quoted a mistake from my post - I left out a negative so it became the opposite of what I intended. What I meant to say was this:

The only thing that an assassin has in the field is his or her own equipment, wits and abilities, so carrying only one useful round is definitely

not

being well-prepared.

On the matter of Turbo-Penetrator rounds destroying tanks, I believe that while very powerful, it isn't exactly unwarranted. Any ordinary sniper rifle can penetrate a Land Raider since they all have Rending and base 3 Strength. What's more, ordinary sniper rifles can be used in whole squads to ensure that tanks are taken down - a squad of Marine Scouts with sniper rifles can reliably put at least one penetrating hit into a Land Raider. For a Vindicare assassin who has only one shot and has no backup when he misses, using Turbo-Penetrator rounds to increase the rate of penetrating hits essentially puts him on equal ground with other snipers when dealing with enemy armour.

[WarriorFish]

You seem to be mistaken on a couple of things - firstly that SM scouts will actually hit anything (BS3 in the new codex), and normal sniper rifles can get S3 + D6 + D3 assuming they get the rending 6 on the penetration roll. Rending gives + D3 penetration against armour in 5th you see.

 

I think the Vindicare should be given the choice to pick from rounds too, though naturally this would mean the turbo penetrating round would be brought back down to earth a little to compensate for this.

 

... though I do like Eddie's idea. Just for how silly it is, plus it'd be the ultimate anti-character ploy. I'm sure Eldrad would mysteriously stop leading every Eldar force (along with the Avatar, too) when he's basically traded with your Vindicare the first turn of each game. Maybe the buggering off rule could be called "Back in time for tea" :D

[- 7eAL -]

You seem to be mistaken on a couple of things - firstly that SM scouts will actually hit anything (BS3 in the new codex), and normal sniper rifles can get S3 + D6 + D3 assuming they get the rending 6 on the penetration roll. Rending gives + D3 penetration against armour in 5th you see.

 

I think the Vindicare should be given the choice to pick from rounds too, though naturally this would mean the turbo penetrating round would be brought back down to earth a little to compensate for this.

Ah I had to go back and check. Seems I had mistakenly recalled that sniper rifles still roll 2d6, on top of S3 and Rending.

 

Bringing the Turbo-Penetrator back to a reasonable level is as simple as making it roll 2d6 and Rending instead of 3d6 and Rending. The Turbo-Penetrator only ever needs to roll an additional d6 better than ordinary sniper rifles. This gives it a maximum penetration roll of 21 from 18 + base S3, and an Rending-adjusted average of 10.33- from 7.33- + base S3.