2 Death Cult Assassins or 1 Eversor

[Lord Cornilius]

Generally speaking, I want the assassin(s) to back up my Inquisitor Lord just in case he gets attacked in close combat.

[Charred Heretic]

GW pretty much made that decision for you with the kill points.

 

The Eversor (affectionately called "Spike") is your man.

Get a nice big Inquisitor and a few lads with oversized combat shields, and Spike might never be targeted.

 

I've always wanted to try a Culexus Assasin in conjunction with an Inquisitor Lord using "Word of the Emperor".

Or maybe An Inquisitor Lord (or two) using Divine Pronouncement against Orks.

 

But if you're going to use Culexus, you've really got to make sure you're on your game regarding Morale Checks vs Ld checks.

They are not the same thing.

[Aidoneus]

GW pretty much made that decision for you with the kill points.

Yee-up. That pretty much settles it.

 

I'd say the Eversor or Callidus is your best bet now. They've both been my favorites all along, but they're also the ones that have lost the least effectiveness in 5th edition. The Callidus is great for Word in Your Ear and her pop-up-anyway deal. Combine with with her save/armour-denying template weapon, and she's worth taking even before she gets into close combat. Of course, she's also 25pts more expensive than the Eversor, so will cost you a PAGK, or equivalent. That's your call.

[revnow]

If it's counterassault protection you want the the Eversor is the best choice. Callidus are usually unreliable for protection because they require a reserve roll, and thus can be problematic when turn 3 comes around, you're faced with a likely charge, and she still isn't on the board. I think Death Cultists still have their place in the 2/3 of games that aren't Killpoints because infiltrate and outflank make them excellent at objective denial in the new Edition. 2 DCAs won't do a whole lot though, and don't have the 12" charge range of the Eversor that will be neccesary at keeping a oncoming assaulty unit at arms length.

[Onisuzume]

I'd say an Eversor in any case.

Cheapest of the temple assassins, and one of the best ones at it. (especially with the Vindicare's pistol nerf)

[Charred Heretic]

Vindicare's pistol nerf

 

Yeah but how about that triple-rending that Turbo shot?

Man, he could like blow up uh... like Jupiter or something if he rolls boxcars or better.

 

Of course it's totally stupid odds to count on that happening, but would

serve as a great psychological weapon against control freak opponents.

[revnow]

In all fairness the turbo pen round is pretty powerful if you just consider the average. It can pen a Landraider 40% of the time, and most anything else well over 70% of the time. The Vindicare isn't likely what Lord Cornelius is looking for in terms of assault prevention, but it definitely has its valuable points.

[SinnerBeta]

If we're talking about Vindicare vs vehicles, how does the special bullet work against Monoliths ? The description says "weapons that get a additional Armor Penetration dice, do not get the extra dice against Monolith". The description of the bullet doesn't say that he gets three diced, but that he has three dices. Bad wording, how would you rule it ? Doesn't gain anything ? Loose one dice (the description says about loosing the extra dice, not dices), but still get 2d6 ? Has all 3 dices ?

[WarriorFish]

I think DCAs may work as an escort for your Inquisitor Lord. By hanging behind him (and getting a 4+ cover save from shooting) they can charge anyone who charges the Inquisitor or geets too close. They're not amazing, but I5 and power weapons should cause anyone to think twice before getting close.

 

Also, shooting them would take away an entire squad's shooting from your Lord or another unit so protecting him in another way. An Eversor would be the other option, but you can be sure your opponent will be trying to shoot him down before closing for CC with the Lord. The DCAs would be cheaper and more durable against shooting (being 2 seperate units), which would also help in CC too (dividing your opponent's attacks).

 

It really dependson exactly what you're looking for, since the DCAs would be best sticking close by but the Eversor could scuttle off to cause trouble easier (12" charge!). The Callidus arriving from deep strike pretty much rules her out for bodyguard duties, otherwise she's great (don't forget she now gets +1A from 2 one handed weapons!).

 

So on the face of it, if you want cheaper and more durable nasty CC bodyguards, I think the DCAs are the best choice.

[Inquisitor Fox]

The other benefit of Death Cult Assassins, is people aren't scared of them somehow, dispite their effectiveness. There's an intimidation factor in an Imperial Temple Assassin that everyone is scared of, but they completely somehow chalk up Death Cult Assassins into not being a threat. It's fun to surprise them and let them walk into the trap :tu:

[Charred Heretic]

Eh. Sorta. It's a do-able trap, but I don't see it as a fantastic trap.

A few I5 power weapon attacks.

An enemy squad of 10 MEQs should contain sufficient ablative wounds to absorb 2 charging DCAs, and still be able to emerge and cut down your ][ squad.

 

And if you up it to 3 DCAs, you might start thinking about Arcos.

[revnow]

On average 3 DCAs kill an entire tac squad, and DCAs are much better than arcos.

[Charred Heretic]

/Disagree on DCAs being "much better than" Arcos.

Different tools for different needs, General.

(And are you even considering kill points, and the change to Killzone?)

 

Further, I'm not anticipating the foe being some weak unsupported 5-Man Tac Squad of marines with no CC gear and no IC.

It's pretty bad strategy to stick such a skinny, unsupported neck out for the enemy to chop off.

 

A stronger MEQ squad will likely be the foe.

And I would expect them to beat 2 DCAs and still be able to engage the ][ squad, and possibly finish it off too.

And that forces you to think about beefing up to 3 DCAs, and with Kill points & killzone as they are now,

that condition gives way to considering Arcos, not to mention that Arcos are among the most artistically

imaginative models in GW.

 

There's no right answer.

Only different tools to consider.

 

However, the Eversor remains a very effective choice.

I'm just tossing ideas.

[Red Lost Soldier]

During one of the numerous discussions about making an =][= close combat squad, the idea hit me that the best idea was simply to have a bunch of DCA hanging around instead, as a quasi-retinue. There is simply nothing close to DCA potential in the henchmen profiles, particularly now with the PF changes munting combat servitors.

 

Although saying that, I'd probably prefer the Eversor as a counter charge unit. Hopefully you can kill a few models off before they are a threat, and the Eversor can take the fight to them quicker, and even if he fails can do some more damage. Also the Evesor can handle units that the DCA simply don't pose a threat to.

 

Although in saying that too, if you're not a dirty radical like me, a squad of GK nearby is a much more reliable support and assault defender.

[Lord Cornilius]

I'm planning on running an Inq. Lord, with a large, static, fire suport retinue for fluff. They won't be seeing Close Combat unless an opponent goes looking for them, however, if they get assaulted, Iron Will should keep the enemy around long enough for the assassin(s) countercharge. Up until that point the assassins will be hiding. I think the DCA would hit with a little more guaranteed result. 2 DCA will hit with 8 attacks on the charge, an eversor will hit with 5-10 attacks.

[Charred Heretic]

a squad of GK nearby is a much more reliable support and assault defender.

But can 95 points of GKs (OK 100) points worth do what Spike (Eversor) can do?

12 Inch Charge is exactly the tool for that job, and I5 ain't shabby.

[WAR]

I go for both a unit of 3 dca and either a eversor or the callidus and then tag team them with 4 assassains

[revnow]

I'll do a side by side so you can see what they can do

2 DCAs

4 wounds

+5 save

8 att on charge

6" charge

6 att normal

S4

T3

80 pts

 

Eversor

2 wounds

+4 save

4+D6 att on charge (7.5 avg)

12" charge

4 att normal

S4 but always wounds on a +4

combi needle/bolt pistol

T4

Meltdown

95 pts

[Charred Heretic]

Eversor gives enemy 1 Killpoint.

2 DCAs is 2 Killpoints.

That's a very large favor to Spike.

 

Even if their stats were otherwise equal, I'd be willing to pay 25 points for that 12" charge.

(To me), it's the deal-maker.

 

I used to toss a couple DCAs in my backline for occasional countercharge.

They weren't there to win CCs, but more to just make life crappy for those

who charged me. They served the role fair enough, but now it will be Spike.

[Red Lost Soldier]

While GK will cost you more points, they can take objectives, contest objectives, lend covering fire, and will work much better against high initiative foes (8 X 3+ wounds > 2 X 4+ wounds). They also won't give any kill points away if you are smart. It was a small side suggestion in a thread about assassins.

 

Eversor all the way. While less attacks, he's faster, less kill points, tougher, and is just crazy.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Personally I use DCAs since my assassin slot goes to a Vindicare. I like the precise destruction of individual models that tick me off or otherwise need to die (Icons, specific special or heavy weapons, walkers with turbo penetrator rounds, enemy HQ, etc).

[Utsujin]

I played a game against marines, and his assault squad wiped out my 3 man terminator squad, my 10 man storm trooper squad, then my eversor assaulted and killed the entire squad in 2 turns of combat, with a chappy. There was only 7 assault marines and the chaplain left after my terminators were roasted, but hey.

 

I'd go with the eversor hands down, he's a beast in combat.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Well, first of all always take the Eversor as your default 1st Elite choice. Nothing else in 40k does what he does for that points cost. Callidus does better against Thousand Sons and Plaguebearers (where their invulnerable saves block the Eversor's damage output), but for general-purpose slaughter he is a fantastic unit.

 

Then, if you so desire, add a bodyguard of DCA (4-6) to protect him in combat.

 

Never charge DCA alone into combat, even against Tau and IG I would charge minimum 2 of them. In most circumstances, either assault with the Eversor or don't do it.

 

 

 

Something that occured to me the other day was the concept of 'trailing' a unit of PAGK. Hiding a DCA behind a unit of PAGK isn't hard, and it would be rare for them to shoot/assault the DCA over the PAGK.

 

So, if the enemy wants to assault the PAGK, they risk getting counter-assaulted by your DCA following along behind. They'll add to the Justicar's clearance of enemy models and help swing the combat in your favour (preventing you taking wounds from combat resolution from being Fearless, and shifting the Morale check/extra wounds back onto the opponent). I6 is rare on most assault infantry, the ones that do have it (Genestealers, Daemonettes, Harlequins) are all vulnerable to being shot to pieces first (which your PAGK should have no problem doing, with their psycannons and storm bolter dakka). Most other assault infantry are I5 or worse, thus letting your DCA get her attacks in most circumstances, before it moves down to I4 and the GK's get to swing.

 

I would probably pair up 2 x DCA for each of your PAGK squads, so thats about the same points outlay as the bodyguard strategy, but less risky. PAGK's are most vulnerable to I5 assaults, especially involving units packing Rending or power weapons, and thats where a half-dozen power weapons attacks at I5 can swing the combat in your favour.

 

Beats waiting for your Outflanking DCA to show up on time, or Infiltrating them too far forward to support properly.