Newb Alert: Assault Question

[mgraham]

My son and I are trying to learn 40k and had a small battle today. At one point during the battle, my son had two squads of assault marines (5 per squad) within assault range of my daemon prince.

 

Our first question is, can both squads of assault marines assault the daemon prince? We assumed, "yes", but the rules are somewhat confusing to us new guys.

Assuming both squads can assault, which battle is fought first? Attacker's choice? Since we didn't know, I just let him pick one of the squads.

 

I attacked first due to my initiative 6 (mark of slaanish). It took me a really long time to find the rule that says the daemon prince ignores armor saves when he attacks because he's a monstrous creature. Given this, I rolled 4 hits and 4 wounds (warptime). We stopped playing at this point, but had we continued, I'm assuming his remaining assault marine would get his turn to attack (his normal attack +1 attack for assaulting for a total of 2 attacks) and would then have to make a morale roll (assuming I survived). Regardless of the result of the morale roll (and the possible break off roll), we'd move on to the next group of assault marines?

 

Also, is there a rule somewhere that states that in an assault, if the attacker's strength is double the defender's toughness, armor saves are ignored?

 

Hopefully you guys will have mercy on me. I've honestly searched endlessly for this info before posting.

[Wander]

Yes, you'd "move on", but the Daemon Prince wouldn't have any more attacks for that assault phase (pp. 41 and 49, Multiple Combats and Independent Characters & Assaults); the second Assault Marine unit would just get their attacks (1 Base, +1 for BP/CCW, +1 for Charging), meaning fifteen strength 4 attacks that allow armor saves, while the first Marine unit would get 3 S4 attacks that allow Amor saves. (pp. 37, Number of Attacks). The Daemon could have split his attacks between the units, but the results of the combat wouldn't have changed.

 

Then, to determine the results of the combat, the Daemon Prince would have inflicted four wounds for a score of four, and the Marines would get however many wounds they inflicted; the greater number is a win for the entire side; the individual units group up their combat results, you see. (pp. 41, Assault Results)

 

So, if the Daemon inflicted more unsaved wounds, then the each marine unit would take morale checks; both units would take a morale check at (8 - (4 - X)) = somewhere between 7 and 4, depending on the number of wounds the Marines scored, denoted as 'X' (pp. 44, Losing an Assault)

 

If the Marines scored more unsaved wounds (basically meaning they killed the Daemon, since they'd need to score 5+ Wounds to do so), both Marine units consolidate D6" in any direction (pp. 40, Consolidation). Then, the first Marine unit, having lost more than 25% of its models in a single phase, would take a Morale Check (pp. 44, Taking Morale Checks - A) Casualties), at LD 8 (no modifiers, since the Morale Check is not due to losing an Assault)

 

If the Marines score 4 unsaved wounds to match the Daemon's 4, they kill the Daemon as well; however, for the sake of completeness, let's say the Daemon got an extra Wound from somewhere, then the combat is drawn and no morale checks are made - combat continues next turn, but the Marines only get two attacks now, losing the Charge bonus. The first Marine unit takes no Morale check (pp. 44, Taking Morale Checks - A) Casualties).

 

As you found out, Monstrous Creatures ignore Armor Saves (pp. 51, Assault). However, no strength value ever eliminates armor saves in close combat - only special weapons and rules can do that. Only in shooting does the strength-toughness differential matter.

[mgraham]

<post snipped>

 

Wow, what an insanely helpful response; I really appreciate the time and effort you put into your post. :devil: Sometimes this game seems impossibly complicated, but I figure we just need to play, ask questions, and then play again. Thanks again.

[nighthawks]

briefly, a small correction to the great post by Wander:

 

the unit that is injured in close combat does not have to make any morale checks after the break-off of combat - weather they run (fall back after failing the morale check after loosing combat, P.44 C) or win and consolidate (P.40). Close combat wounds are ignored in the 25% casualties equation (P.44 A - though I agree that the wording in the book is a bit odd with regard to discounting CC wounds AND specifying that models locked in CC don't take morale checks for 25% losses, it does make sense once you get more used to it.)

[Morticon]

Not a rules related thing. But, firstly welcome to the forum and the game...and big up on ya for teaching your kid how to play <_< !!