Battrep, deathwing style GK.

[Pyriel]

Inspired by Mughi3 and Ambro and after hearing some of their suggestions and mixing them with my own ideas I decided to try out a game using a pure GK army built around the deathwing theme.

That means, as many terminators and land raiders as possible crammed up into something that´s hopefully a competitively built 1750p list.

 

I did not know what mission I was going to play or what opponent I was going to meet. I knew I´ll meet either tau, chaos (nurgle), necrons or orks.

Thus I constructed a list making it as survivable as possible.

 

My reasoning:

Large land raider bourne GKT suads sound fun and all but in certain instances they are pretty worthless. Imagine meeting tyranids, or chaos armies with heavy HQs then no matter how large GKT squads I have, they will be wasted in CC and as for shooting the few stormbolters do absolutely nothing.

Thus early on I decided to take several smaller GKT squads rather then few larger.

 

Incinerators or psycannons?

The incinerator is wonderful when riding in a raider but the problem arises, what if it flames a dedicated enemy CC unit and doesnt kill of enough models, the unit toting the incinerator will be wiped in the counter assault.

The potential for a successful drive-by flaming fest is still to great to forget though.Psycannons on the other hand can down annoyances like chaos HQ daemons from afar and most importantly, start earning their points back from turn 1 as contrary to a hidden incinerator that will probably be used once late in game.

 

Thus I choose psycannons instead of incinerators but for that fun factor (and flexibility) still took a double incinerator squad.

 

My against all list in the end looked like this:

 

HEAVY

Land Raider

Extra armour

 

Land Raider Crusader

Extra armour

 

Land Raider Crusader

Extra armour

 

 

HQ

Brother Captain + Psycannon

2 GKT + Psycannon

 

ELITES

Brother Captain + Psycannon

2 GKT + Psycannon

 

Brother Captain

2 GKT

 

TROOP

5 PAGK + 2 psycannons

 

5 PAGK + 2 incinerators

 

 

My plan was to deploy accordingly to the opponent and shoot the crap out of him to in the end take out the rest in HtH using massed GKT numbers while protecting my measly troops so that they can score objectives.

 

My opponent decided to surprise me by using the chaos daemons army, something I heard eats Grey Knights for breakfast.

This was going to be interesting.

 

 

My opponent used:

 

HQ

Bloodthirster

With wings and that 2+ inv psychic save.

 

The masque

 

ELITES

3 Blood crushers

 

2 blood crushers

 

3 steeds of slaanesh

 

HEAVY

Soulgrinder

With that anti tank power and the lots-of-shots anti infantry power

 

Soulgrinder

Same upgrades

 

TROOP

 

20 daemonettes

Some added CC upgrade given to them.

 

20 daemonettes

Same upgrade.

 

 

We rolled annihilation and dawn of war and my opponent won the roll for first turn and side choosing.

 

Table was full of scattered smaller buildings, no real area terrain I could use for cover saves, that sucked.

 

My opponent choose to have the masque and all 40 daemonettes come in turn 1.

I choose to start with nothing on the table.

 

 

Turn 1:

All daemons deepstrike in the middle on the table and start to slowly move towards my lines, they were in mutual support range with the masque attached to one unit. One daemonette dies from dangerous terrain DS.

 

Turn 2:

An additional 3 bloodcrushers and 3 steads come in behind the daemonettes. The steeds show up on the far right flank, the crushers in the middle and also a soulgrinder and the winged bloodthirster on the left flank.

All rushing towards my lines.

 

My turn 2 saw one crusader rolling in with one GKT squad deploying right behind it in the middle of my table line just outside an approximate assault range from one daemonette unit (the one without the masque in it).

The GKTs on foot and the crusader opens up on the nearby daemonettes and manages to kill around half of them.

 

Turn 3:

The rest of his forces arrive.

2 blood crushers in the middle, a second soulgrinder in the middle.

The nearby daemonettes surround the crusader and the masque with her daemonette squad is now almost within charge range from my GKTs.

The soulgrinder shoots on my crusader and manages to shake it.

The second soulgrinder shoots at my GKT squad but despite bad rolls from my side (a handful of 2s) all termies survive.

 

My turn 3 sees a second GKT squad enter on the far right flank.

A land raider also pops up on the left flank with a psycannon PAGK squad on foot behind it.

My right flank terminators open up on the dangerous (cavalry) steeds and their psycannons kill them all.

My shaken crusader tankshocks the surrounding daemonettes (they pass Ld) towards the GKTs behind who promptly embarge to escape from the 20 close by daemonettes.

 

The crusaders machine spirit and the PAGKs on the left flank kill a bunch of daemonettes so there are only 3 left now in the first squad.

My land raider kills the middle soulgrinder causing it to explode (5 blast radius) and as it was crammed into a lot of daemonettes 4 die.

 

Turn 4:

The bloodthirster and soulgrinder position themselves to charge my both landraiders (they cant flee as they have their backs to the table edge as it is)

The masque tries to lure the PAGKs but they are out of range.

All moves forward.

 

The soulgrinder assaults my middle crusader but fails to do anything.

The bloodthirster assaults my land rarider and despite causing 2 glancing and 2 penetrating hits manage to just stun it (bad luck).

 

My turn 4 sees the rest of my forces arrive.

The raider tankshocks the bloodthirster, the 3 daemonettes and a squad of 3 bloodcrushers AND a portion of the 16 strong daemonettes with the masque. All pass their Ld but I manage to cram the daemonettes tighter.

 

A third crusader comes in and tank shocks the other side of the daemonette squad in a way that sees them packed tight between 2 land raiders and out jumps my twin incinerator PAGK squad.

 

Shooting sees the bloodthirster die from massed long ranged psycannon and SB fire.

The remaining 3 daemonettes are also killed by GKT psycannon fire.

The incinerators cause 32 wounds on the 16 strong daemonette squad killing them all together with the masque.

 

Turn 5:

3 bloodcrushers assault the incinerator PAGKs, killing 3 and loosing two wounds in return.

 

Some GKTs assault the remaining 2 bloodcrushers.

 

The land raider rams the remaining soulgrinder (11´) managing to blow it up.

 

Turn 6:

Game over.

All enemy units are wiped and only 1 PAGK squad is lost in return.

 

Both me and my opponent stare on the table in disbelief. There were some bad rolls on my opponents behalf, mainly in the assaults on my land raiders but such a decisive massacre result none of us expected.

 

Conclusions:

I won due to my psycannons and land raiders. All and any close combats initiated against a daemon army would result in losses for me.

Against daemons the psycannons are worth every point they cost and the raiders are untouchable against the smaller creatures.

 

Having no area terrain prooved to be more disastrous to my enemy then to me but despite this most shooting wounds had cover saves as the table was clogged with units and small terrain pieces all over.

 

I would also feel more secure having a second land raider instead of a second crusader. Those lascannons are worth their points against soulgrinders and super HQs.

 

The only downside was that I never got to use my GKTs the way I wanted to use them in the first place, massed in HtH but then, hth against daemons is pretty suecidal in the first place.

[mughi3]

SWEET!

which you could have gotten picks. thats the first batrep i have heard of an actual GK VS demon battle. we've wanted to see one for a while but nobody where i play has a demon army yet(some in the works). psycannons and incinerators do rock against demons since most of them only have an invul save which you ignore. i think the only way CC would have worked well for you is if you had a squad with the sacred incense and grimore to give you a real turn around in CC. especially against the little demons.

 

glad it worked for you. small elite armies do work if you use the right tactics.

 

;)

[Gentlemanloser]

DoW deployment doesn't work like you played.

 

My opponent choose to have the masque and all 40 daemonettes come in turn 1.

 

My turn 2 saw one crusader rolling in with one GKT squad

 

The Dameon Codex rules are still inplace, as none of thier army deploys at the start. It can't. A rolled half of the army deploys 1st turn in DoW, as usual.

 

For yourself, anything not noted as held in reserve moves on from your Table edge in your firs tmovement phase (1st turn). While you cold have held the GKT in reserve (due to TDA), the LR can't be held in reserve and should have moved on in your first turn.

 

My shaken crusader tankshocks the surrounding daemonettes (they pass Ld)

 

Do fearless troops have to make Ld tests versus Tank shock?

 

GZ ont he win! Psycannons really make mincement of anythingthat doesn't have Iron Armour. But fear facing Daemon Princes with your Land Raiders. DP's with Wings can fly in and MC Land Raiders. :)

 

Edit: Scary as Dameonettes are, they're fragile. Watch out for Flamers and DPs with Breath of Chaos. As they won't give you Armour or Cover saves and will melt PAGK and GKT.

 

Edit2: Sorry, need more anti Daemon venting.

 

I'm so glad you massacred that army. I absolutly loath the fact all thier psychic, warp spawned, dameons 'powers' are actually shooting weapons. >_<

 

And that MC can be bought two powers and get to shoot them twice (due to being MC) without having to but the "Shoot two powers!" upgrade.

 

>_<

 

LoL! Antoher Edit.

 

DoW is actually the best senario for the Daemon army.

 

Instead of facing the whole enemy army with only the half that first turn DSes, you only have to face 3 squads, plus whatever can move and fire (so no heavy wepaons on infantry etc) on the first turn (and that's in range).

[Inquisitor Fox]

Like I mentioned in the other Knightwing thread, the tactics seem eeriely familiar to my Warhammer Fantasy Bretonnian Knight tactics...

 

It looks like I need more terminators :)

 

That and it's nice to see that it worked out on the table like what my head said it aught too.

[Ambro]

Never thought that the army we were suggesting would be as effective as it turned out :). I see you cut down the size of the GKT to only three men though which would be a bit risky if you got caught up in CC with them, I would have scraped the squad with the 3 GKT with no weapons and used the points to add another 3 or 4 GKT's to the other two squads. Although it seemed to work out good for you anyway with the psycannons doing a great job against the deamon filth :). I'm suprised your opponent decided to go for deamons though especially with all the anti deamon weaponary we have, i'd like to see how this army fares against other no deamon opponents. Also you were meant to deploy all your force at the beginning of the second turn enless they can be held in reserve normally, that may have given you an advantage as you could have bought all your psycannons to bear earlier in the game although you didnt need it in the end anyway :).

[Pyriel]

The Dameon Codex rules are still inplace, as none of thier army deploys at the start. It can't. A rolled half of the army deploys 1st turn in DoW, as usual.

 

For yourself, anything not noted as held in reserve moves on from your Table edge in your firs tmovement phase (1st turn). While you cold have held the GKT in reserve (due to TDA), the LR can't be held in reserve and should have moved on in your first turn.

Dunno if I wrote a little wrong but this is how it went:

 

Opponent chooses side and also to go first.

Game starts, no one has deployed anything.

 

The DoW rules stated that I may "choose" to deploy "up to" one HQ and two troops. I "choose" to deploy zero of the above.

 

Turn 1 starts:

Now my opponent deep strikes half of his army.

 

Turn 1 for me means nothing happened since my reserves arrive starting on turn 2.

 

Turn 2:

Now my reserves started to roll in from my table edge I must add!

 

The other half of his army start to arrive as per reserves.

Here is where we made a mistake as he simply deployed his units from his table edge instead of deep striking them but as an after thought should he DS the reserves as per the codex daemon rules I see no other change in his battle plan or the outcome other then one soulgrinder DSing close to my 3 far right terminators eventually assaulting them. (it was the other soulgrinder that was rammed).

 

The GKTs still had a clear fire corridor towards my land raider so the soulgrinder would have been killed nevertheless, only differance might have been I would have lost an additional 3 GKTs in addition to my PAGK squad.

 

All the smaller creatures he had were defenseless due to the usage of my raiders as safe heavens for my footsloggers when need arose.

 

The game was basically a game between two soulgrinders and a bloodthirster and a land raider and two crusaders with massed psycannons taking care of the closest portions of the rest of his army and the flaming surprise with the double tank shocked daemonette unit.

 

 

 

Now why cant the LR be held in reserve?

I actually wanted it to start on the table but the rules said up to 1 HQ and 2 troops may start on the table. Zero heavies.

 

Do fearless troops have to make Ld tests versus Tank shock?

We checked the rulebook when that happened and found (under tank shock) that units shocked must pass ld or fall back. Maybe more is to be found but we didnt but that does not matter really since all his units always passed their Ld tests.

 

GZ ont he win! Psycannons really make mincement of anythingthat doesn't have Iron Armour. But fear facing Daemon Princes with your Land Raiders. DP's with Wings can fly in and MC Land Raiders. sad.gif

He had very bad luck with the bloodthirster assaulting the raider.

Still, at best he would do is to take out the raider and then still die due to massed psycannon fire.

 

Now I dont know if my opponent did the assault the right way but this is how he counted:

Raider did not move the previous turn so his daemon auto hit it.

He got 5 hits on the charge.

He had I think S7 and counted this like S7 + 2D6 vs armour.

This gave him 2 glancing and 2 penetrating hits.

He got I think a 3 and 4 glancing and a 1 and 2 penetrating or if it was 1 and 1.

 

DoW is actually the best senario for the Daemon army.

I think his biggest mistake was taking the first turn.

This let me react to his deployment (deep striking) but then I guess he wanted the first turn so that by the time I started to pour in he´d already be in my lines.

 

I still dont know what is better against daemons, normal raiders or crusaders.

Crusaders will still never, ever wear down massed daemon hordes but they are really good vs the anti tank flyers.

Normal raiders on the other hand earn their points back from turn one and they eat expencive daemon HQs for breakfast...not to mention those pesky soulgrinders.

 

Give me some suggestions for cheesy daemon lists and I´ll ask if we can give it another try versus another daemon list.

[Pyriel]

Never thought that the army we were suggesting would be as effective as it turned out smile.gif. I see you cut down the size of the GKT to only three men though which would be a bit risky if you got caught up in CC with them

Well, the plan was to use the GKT squads (9 GKTs in all) coordinated like if assaults needed to be made then all would assault at the same time.

As it went I had to deploy with big gaps in between and shoot only.

[Ambro]

Never thought that the army we were suggesting would be as effective as it turned out smile.gif. I see you cut down the size of the GKT to only three men though which would be a bit risky if you got caught up in CC with them

Well, the plan was to use the GKT squads (9 GKTs in all) coordinated like if assaults needed to be made then all would assault at the same time.

As it went I had to deploy with big gaps in between and shoot only.

 

Yea that could work as well I guess although not quite as good as the enemy can still charge the single unit of GKT's without contacting the other and with only 3 in combat I think even GKT's would struggle to win it. Although you did get the benefit of being able to split your fire and like you say shooting is preferable against deamons.

 

Do fearless troops have to make Ld tests versus Tank shock?

We checked the rulebook when that happened and found (under tank shock) that units shocked must pass ld or fall back. Maybe more is to be found but we didnt but

 

Going by the previous edition rules im sure that they still need to take the leadership test. A morale test and a leadership test are two seperate things and being fearless only means you dont take morale tests.

 

Now why cant the LR be held in reserve?

I actually wanted it to start on the table but the rules said up to 1 HQ and 2 troops may start on the table. Zero heavies.

 

The LR has to be kept in reserve in a DOW mission as only a HQ and 2 troops are allowed to deploy at the beginning although it must enter at your table edge at the beginning of your second turn so it is slightly different to normal reserve rules. The same goes for all your other units which you have not declared as deepstriking as they would enter using the normal reserve rules.

[SpideyScott]

When you tank shock a unit it has to take a morale test so fearless units would auto pass it and wouldnt need to roll. For DOW missions units that arent declared in reserve come on turn 1 from your table edge and those that are in reserve roll from turn 2 as normal.

[Gentlemanloser]

Dunno if I wrote a little wrong but this is how it went:

 

Opponent chooses side and also to go first.

Game starts, no one has deployed anything.

 

Ah!

 

The DoW rules stated that I may "choose" to deploy "up to" one HQ and two troops. I "choose" to deploy zero of the above.

 

That's all cool, you could have had all your army in Drop Pods (or the like!)

 

But DoW doesn't allow you to hold units in reserve that can't usually start there. Anything not declared in reserve (like Outflanking Souts, DSing TDA, etc) moves in from your board edge on your first movement phase (strange wording that...).

 

Now why cant the LR be held in reserve?

 

Becuase it's rules don't let it start in reserve. ;)

 

I actually wanted it to start on the table but the rules said up to 1 HQ and 2 troops may start on the table. Zero heavies.

 

It would have to move on from your Table edge turn 1.

 

I think his biggest mistake was taking the first turn.

 

It might have worked if you hadn't started off with everything off board, but generally he should have gone second.

 

Give me some suggestions for cheesy daemon lists and I´ll ask if we can give it another try versus another daemon list.

 

Oh my!

 

Deamon Princes of Nurgle, with Breath of Chaos, Iron Armour and Wings. Three preferably. ;)

 

Skulltaker and as many Bloodcrushers up to the 8 squad limit you can manage.

 

Flamers.

 

Pink horrors are ok, the changeling can be find but I find them so/so.

 

Fill the rest with Bloodletters over Daemonettes (And give one 'Letter Rending)

 

Try something like that out! ;)

 

Edit: Skulltaker on a Juggernaught.

 

And if anything left, some Herlad. Khorne or Tzeench (they aer blighters in Shooting, but et tied up easily in CC).

[SpideyScott]

i would like to know where in the rules it states a LR cant be held in reserve?

[Gentlemanloser]

Where in the LRs rules does it state it can?

 

Edit: Unless I'm getting confused here, and as part of normal deployment anything can be held in reserve.

[number6]

You can put any units you like -- even your entire army! -- into Reserves. There are no restrictions.

[Gentlemanloser]

Damn! Was that the way it was in 4th?

 

I was sure you could only keep units in reserve (unless the mission demanded it) that had that as part of thier rules. Like TDA or Jump Packs.

 

I'm not sure I like that. Get second turn, then keep all your army in reserves to waste a round of shooting at you by your opponent. :/

[SpideyScott]

well in that case nothing can be held in reserve. where does it state in the PAGK entry that they can be held in reserve? In the reserves rule in the 5th ed book it says a player may choose to hold 1 or more units in reserve, it doesnt say anything about LRs not being able to held in reserve since they are units too.

 

edit bet too it lol

[number6]

Damn! Was that the way it was in 4th?

 

I was sure you could only keep units in reserve (unless the mission demanded it) that had that as part of thier rules. Like TDA or Jump Packs.

That was indeed the way things worked in the previous edition of the game. But in 5th edition, any unit can begin the game in Reserves if you choose. And you can join your ICs to your squads off-table so they cna deep strike them together as a single unit. Or embark your termies and your IC into a land raider, put all three units into reserves, but then roll reserves for just the raider! When the raider arrives, it brings everything on table with it that is inside.

 

Honestly, it's a much simpler and more intuitive system. I likes it!

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention! Congrats on the win. As with the other Knightwing list -- which fortuitously has a different, non-mech build -- I'd like to know more about how this force matches up to a fuller spectrum of opponents, and whether it continues to be competetive, etc. Although your Troops aren't quite as fragile as those in the other list, it ain't a whole lot better. It still seems to me like 10 GKs -- with 4 of them turned into otherwise normal Astartes with their GK special weapons -- wouldn't be that hard to kill off. And therefor, most games would be played for draws.

[Pyriel]

I'm not sure I like that. Get second turn, then keep all your army in reserves to waste a round of shooting at you by your opponent. :/

It was the only sensible thing I could do with 40 deamons breading down my neck.

To skip first turn and deploy from reserves instead. This gave me the luxury of placing my units as a response to his initial deployment (DS), thereby removing his initiative and turning it into my own.

 

Basically I sacraficed one turn of meagre shooting for having his 20 daemonettes be useless for 3 turns.

 

I'd like to know more about how this force matches up to a fuller spectrum of opponents, and whether it continues to be competetive

Well, I can and in due tie will get it up against chaos, necrons, tau, orks and marines.

[Gentlemanloser]

^_^ I'm not saying it wasn't the right thing to do! ;)

 

I suppose it does leave the rest of your force at the vaguries of your reserve rolls, but as Number6 says (that's something I must check! lol!) if you only have to roll once for a Vehicles and whatever's inside it, that'll lessen the impact.

 

Much to think on here! ;)

[SpideyScott]

Indeed i had missed that about the reserves rule. I'll need to remember to only roll one dice for a unit in a transport. It does make sense, since in other armies you would roll 2 dice for a squad in a drop pod.

[Valerian]

As Number6 has already stated, Reserves in 5th edition have become much more streamlined and intuitive. Prior to sending them to the battlefield a commander now can tailor "force packages" with the capabilities he wants to employ, and deploy them. Thus, the unit, attached character, and transport vehicle, all arrive together (based on a single dice roll) as planned.

 

This is far, far, superior to the wacky randomness of the last edition. Also, up to the commander's discretion, any and all units may be held back in Reserve, and deploy from the owner's table edge when they arrive. Units with "special rules" may have alternate means of deploying from Reserves, such as Deep Strike or Operate Behind Enemy Lines.

 

Much, much better.

 

Regards,

 

Valerian

[ferrous]

Deamon Princes of Nurgle, with Breath of Chaos, Iron Armour and Wings. Three preferably. :lol:

 

 

Why Nurgle, and not say, Slaanesh with Pavane and Breath of Chaos? I've found it to be fairly nasty as he can pavane a unit off of cover, into a nice tear drop shape and breath on it all in one round.

[SinnerBeta]

Nice.

 

But still, even though I don't want to sound ungrateful, I'd like to see this army vs a MEQ, rather than, well, psycannons vs daemons.

 

Or at least a IEQ, so we could know how they manage against normal armies.

[Gentlemanloser]

Deamon Princes of Nurgle, with Breath of Chaos, Iron Armour and Wings. Three preferably. :o

 

 

Why Nurgle, and not say, Slaanesh with Pavane and Breath of Chaos? I've found it to be fairly nasty as he can pavane a unit off of cover, into a nice tear drop shape and breath on it all in one round.

 

Higher Toughness, and wound on 2+ in CC, rerolling any failed wounds, which ignore armour saves... :o

 

Pavane is nice, but just Template the squad before you charge it.