Starting Chaos, Cults, first post, and pointers needed.

[confused_gordy]

Hey guys and girls, long time reader, first time poster. Hope i can get some useful tips with what im planning.

 

Im hoping to go to the uk grand tourney next year, and chaos seemed to fit the bill nicely for 5th eddition (with foxy combat units, lots of fearless options, useful tools and unexpected tricks). That and ive always loved marines of one flavor or another.

 

My basic plan for the army was to mostly use the dark angel veteran models, highly converted to represent each cult, but to not take off their imperial insignia (renegades who still believe in the cause of humanity, but are hunted by everyone)

 

Im not sure which cults to focus on however. Ive tried a few practice games and was impressed by plague marines, but it struck me that the increased toughness and feel no pain were rarely used (as they were either hit by anti tank weapons, or jumping out of transports to destroy targets of oppertunity.)

 

Noise marines seem handy - the cheapest cult troop, with fearless and all the handy chaos marine equipment. But is it worth 5 pts per model for fearless and init 5, compared to the other cults? Sonic weapons are cool, but then again suddenly they cost the same as a grey knight each, and arent nearly as wonderful.

 

Zerkers seem ace, at only 1 point more than a noise marine, we get the added ws, the extra charge bonus, and fun attacks, but is that worth the loss of bolters? Also with the rumoured new space marine rule to be able to choose to fail or pass any morale check, is taking plasma pistols shooting yourself in the foot, as if you cause a couple of casualties could you loose the charge?

 

Thousand sons - very interesting special rules, great vs meq's, but against anything else? just expensive anti infantry fodder? the invunerable save could be useful to hold objectives far from the enemy, as only anti tank would be reaching out to them, but other than that, they feel a little one trick pony ish (havent triued these yet so oppinions welcome)

 

Normal marines - cheap and cheerful, i love the massive ammount of equipment they get. But not fearless, and not massively special. Heavy weapons and special weapons are handy, but having to have 10 man squads to get the heavy weapons seems a little wasteful. Icons seem unseful, however without fearless and with the posibility of loosing them they seem dangerous.

 

So the bits set in stone are a tzeentch DP (using a fantasy dragon model with a marine in robes riding it) - he will most likely have gift of chaos and warp time, this will make him as awesome in combat as i can, with the possibility of sniping power fists, and creating some friends (on a side note any ideas of how to model these would be great). And the oblitorators which are going to be a sentinel converstion (think metal gears).

 

And the force being mechanised - as rhinos seem like a bit of a no brainer these days.

 

Ive got a list ready if you dont mind having a look:

 

HQ

Dp – wings, mark of t, gift, warptime = 205

ELITES

Dreadnought – missile launcher = 100

TROOPS

Zerkers – 8, champ with p weapon = 198

Zerkers – 7, champ with p fist = 187

Marines – 8, flamer, icon cg champ with p weapon = 165

Rhino, havoc launcher 2 twin bolters = 55

HEAVY SUPPORT

Land raider = 220

Land raider = 220

Obliterators – 2 = 150

 

Total = 1500

 

Thinking behind this is - can either go charging head long into the enemy, or sit back and do some ranged damage first, or split the force into an assault wing of the two land raiders with zerkers and prince, and the oblitorators, marines and dread as a shooty core.

 

The Marines would try and hold an objective that the enemy isnt particularly interested in, with the help of the oblits, the dread can either help with this or try and contest a nearby objective. The zerkers and prince will work to take or at least contest any objectives the enemy is focusing upon. and gthe rhino will either help the marines, charge with the zerkers for some added flexibility, or work as an anti infantry annoyance.

 

 

Im afraid of a grand tourney as ive never really stepped up to that level, and although i usually do very well in casual games, against more competative opponents im worried i wont be ready. Is there anything you seasoned vets can give me advice on? On that note im also interested in how composition scoring works? and if having only 2 identical units in my list is a good thing for this.

 

Thanks in advance for any and all replies.

Gordy

[Night Stalker]

dread is too unstable to perform its battlefield role

 

zerkers are great cult troops if you have lash. wven without it they are great .... in land rider - speaking of which, take 1 raider - it is to hide your dp

 

even if you use land raider transport, buy rhinos for your squads. 50 point with havoc launcher is great for screen and stuff. i do not remember if you can buy an additional bolter then, but if you can, such 55 pts vehicle is bargain.

[confused_gordy]

Your right on the additional bolter, i cant use it on the rhino (oversight on my part) so thats another 5 pts to play with.

 

What would you suggest instead of the dread? a three man unit or termies with a power fist?

 

As much as getting two more rhinos would be handy thats 100 pts (a six man marine squad with a special weapon) or the dread. I feel this would make the list more boring. Are dreads really that terrible that 1/3 of the time in the shooting phase they wont perform exactly as normal. I took the missile launcher to minimise danger to my troops if fired at them.

 

Whats wrong with a second land raider (heck thats pretty scary to see facing you), and what would you suggest putting in its place?

[Night Stalker]

i use 3 man termis with combi-plasma.

 

it is basicaly unit that land, destroy something valuable and die to the incoming fire. well, at least rest of the army is unmolested then :D

 

defiler is good answer, especialy with lash prince - reason ? they need to deploy, and defiler could force your opponent to make a mistake. also it is fire-magnet, and to neuter him you need to immobilise it and destroy its gun.

 

if he just destroy gun, defiler will fleet and hit something with 6 S10 A. if he immobilise it, well - you have battlecannon - it's not going to upset you. but always make sure he have cover - without cover he's dead meat.

 

and there is nothing wrong with two raiders. you just do not have enough blast weapons to force opponent to deploy wrong.

[confused_gordy]

Unfortunately a defiler doesnt fit with the army theme (the still loyalist renegades), any other options you could suggest?

 

a three man termy squad with plasma is more than the 100 i had available with a dred loss, are they really reliable enough to spend 120 pts on if they killed 6 marines on the turn they landed with the plasma thats only 90 pts they loose for my suiside squad, and lets face it there are slim chances of that ever even happening.

 

Losing a raider for a defiler gives me 70 pts to play with, spending 35 of those on a rhino to replace the raider on the zerkers leaves 35 pts to either buy a second rhino or cover the cost of the terminators, but then the zerker delivery is a lot less reliable, and although i do have a big pie plate, that has come at the cost of two lascannons and a heavy bolter. and av14.

 

Is that a good deal?

[Night Stalker]

termis are MC hunters, lash prince is their prime target. but they are not really so much competetive.

 

make csm squad 10 strong without champion add additional flamer [which comes from their rhino bolter]

 

well, instead of land rider you can buy 2 rhino and 2 obliterators. it is quite good trade-off [also keep csm rhino cheap and free rhino equip with havoc launcher], but 2 raiders are also intimidating.