Rethinking Inducted IG Platoon

[Inquisitor Fox]

So a different topic spured my imagination, and I had a thought to propose to folks based on the new edition and how it worked.

 

For 340 points we can have a total of 55 men (6 scoring units).

 

Yes.. the Inquisition can outnumber most any army if we wanted to. All it requires is rethinking and looking at an existing tool we already have, and haven't been using.

 

A humble Inducted Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon is an officer squad (you can get an officer with CC weapon and laspistol, and 4 redshirts with lasguns for cheap), then from 2 to 5 squads of troopers (10 men with lasguns). That's a lot of dice, 6 scoring units, people can no longer sweeping advance, and that'll tie up a lot of units watching people try to eliminate it while your Sisters or Grey Knights do some killing. I mean, there's a lot to be said for a horde of guardsmen being thrown at the enemy while your actual troops do the important work. The enemy can't ignore it.. it's too many men. You can't let 55 models roll up your flank, even when they're guardsmen. Give them frag grenades for about 400 points total instead of 340, and watch them make short work of rear armor value 10 tanks. You're still looking at about 7 points per model. So what if a few get killed, it's not like they're a large investment.

 

Worried about being outnumbered with our elite power armor armies? Need more scoring units? You can't do better than 6 scoring units for one single Troops slot. Only one man, one single guardsman has to survive for it to count. With 55 models, that's not too hard.

 

55 models that score, or one 5 man terminator squad. Hmmm... I may have to start changing my own army lists ^_^

 

Anyway.. I know lots of people will cry Heresy and say that the dirty nasty Inquisitor who is totally willing to sell out a bunch of guardsmen to achieve my ends and protect the important troops is evil, but I think it'd work. I'm reminded of a quote from X-Men 3...

 

"In chess, the pawns die first."

 

So.. we're the Inquisition. Why don't we think about using pawns?

 

Thoughts? I'd love a discussion here.

[werewolf_nr]

So a different topic spured my imagination, and I had a thought to propose to folks based on the new edition and how it worked.

 

For 340 points we can have a total of 55 men (6 scoring units).

 

**Snipped to save Eddie's scroll finger**

 

"In chess, the pawns die first."

 

So.. we're the Inquisition. Why don't we think about using pawns?

 

Thoughts? I'd love a discussion here.

 

All true. I suppose some of the opposition to the idea of inducted IG is the amount of painting, storage and transport required for 55 models.

 

Of course, you can take some heavy/special weapons in there to make life even more interesting for your enemy.

[Eddie Orlock]

It makes my scrolling finger hurt when someone quotes an entire lengthy post imediatly afterward. Ow.

 

The current Guard 'Dex makes the upgrades pricy. If anything, I'd keep 'em cheep with maybe 'nade launchers, flamers, or plasmaguns and that's about it. Eschew heavy weapons. For two slots and ~320 points you can get two groups and 50 men and open up the option to include the other fancy toys.

 

Like a 'Russ ^_^

[Tfcdogbert]

To keep things cheap, i reccomend a missile/heavy bolter team and a grenade launcher/flamer those are cheap, and if you get assaulted in close formation the assaulting troops could end up nicely bunched to take advantage of an autohitting template.

[SpideyScott]

I would also point out that taking flamers and grende launchers would work well with this setup but dont forget those 6 scoring units would be worth 7 KPs in 1 out 3 missions.

[Spacefrisian]

Add in a Canoness with a book and watch them making al morale checks.

[SinnerBeta]

Lascannon salute platoon is a strategy as old as DH.

[Charred Heretic]

Add in a Canoness with a book and watch them making all morale checks.

 

Amen, Amen, Amen.

The Book is better than any doctrine (which you can't take on your inducted IG units anyway).

 

To the original poster:

Which parent army do you have in mind for this discussion?

Because the role of the Platoon would be different.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I personally am more of a Witch Hunters player, as I only have one or two Daemon Hunter units.

 

So for me it's more of a reinforcement in terms of numbers and a 'booga booga booga' distraction. In reality, I just figured discussion on both parent armies could be good, as more and more I've been viewing the Inquisition Codices as linked, as opposed to seperate. The armies seem to play much better together than seperately. So I thought about including the 'By the Authority of the Emperor' bits as well and re-analyzing my army options with the new edition. That and I thought the community as a whole could benefit from someone asking the question of "Hey, why don't we dust off this old unused tool over here and look at it again with the new stuff?"

 

The commonalities with the branches of the Inquisition have been a lack of numbers, and lack of long range firepower. Inducted IG Platoons seem well suited to handling both problems, depending on which one your personal army list has. Either use them for multiple lascannons, or give them more assault oriented weapons or no special weapons at all and use weight of numbers.

 

If you have thoughts for both parent armies, by all means please let them out! More discussion is good. That and it helps my brain to see what other people are thinking and get alternative viewpoints.

[Marid]

Since you don't mention taking a Leman Russ or Sentinels, I think this discussion should include a comparison with IST (or even SOB). For 340 points and three troop slots (only 3 KP!) you have 30 models and four heavy weapons. IST have better saves, better shooting, better leadership, and better guns than ordinary troopers. Are 25 more bodies better than that?

[Charred Heretic]

IST have better saves, better shooting, better leadership, and better guns than ordinary troopers. Are 25 more bodies better than that?

Simple answer, is "Yes. sometimes."

Different tools for different needs.

 

The Guardsman's cost-per-wound is 40% less than an IST, and if both squads are in cover, they are saving identically; and if both squads are enjoying effects from the Book of St Lucius, their Ld is also identical. So we're talking about a 40% material advantage in their defensive capabilities. That's good cause to consider a Platoon over ISTs.

 

I will restate that for a WH army, Zealots (if you consider them legal) are usually better than Guardsmen.

 

Some quick observations I have about Platoons.

- Remnants: cheap flamer in a cheap squad, or just a speedbump.

- Lascannons: BS3 is stinky. Get either two or none.

- Anchor them with BoSL in cover.

- Great in Cities of death, there 4+ cover abounds, and so much better with Strategem Medicae or Barricades.

- Their real value is cheap ablative wounds. Use for objectives.

 

The un-dedication of transports is an interesting development that I'll need to think about.

I might like the idea of Sisters able to ride in a Chimera; or a 2x-flamer command squad able to ride in a Rhino.

(If I'm not mistaken, I think a Command squad can take 2 or 3 flamers?)

[Eltnot]

I might like the idea of Sisters able to ride in a Chimera; or a 2x-flamer command squad able to ride in a Rhino.

(If I'm not mistaken, I think a Command squad can take 2 or 3 flamers?)

A Guard command squad can include up to 4 special weapons depending on what else is taken in the squad.

 

I've started using a min size platoon with grenade launchers and missile launchers. 25 men for 235 points it gives me:

- Three good antitank or anti infantry weapons that have good ranges and are significantly more survivable than my exorcists(which I still take).

- Three Grenade Launchers for anti infantry work at range and Light Tank busting in a pinch.

- Three scoring units to hold any objectives close to or within my deployment zone (2/3rds of missions), that are still likely to be alive at the end of the battle (people shoot at the rhinos advancing towards them usually rather than a couple of guardsmen at the rear).

- They don't significantly increase my Kill Points (3 KP's for the guard as opposed to 2 KP's from a sister squad with Rhino for similar points), and they are quite survivable at the rear and in cover)

- Realistic options other than full speed towards the enemy (I have access to more firepower vs assault oriented armies).

- Some protection for my Exorcists from Deepstrikers (particularly Lictors).

 

In smaller games (1000 points or less), I replace the Guard Platoon with a squad of Stormtroopers. They fulfill much the same roles with grenade launchers.

 

Fluff wise, my Imperial Guard Platoon is in fact Ecclesiastic Bodyguards for a Bishop, Cardinal, or Priest (represented by an Inquisitor).

[Charred Heretic]

Good ideas.

Some protection for my Exorcists from Deepstrikers (particularly Lictors).

Good point. 16 double-tapping flashlights + 4 templates is a lot to face up close.

Especially with the beefing up of template accuracy for the BS-weak guardsmen.

(and I didn't even count the command squad)

 

Speaking of which, how do you outfit the command squad?

I've been thinking of the 4x flamer Command squad as "a poor man's Dominion squad".

What do you think?

[Eltnot]

I just give them a missile launcher and grenade launcher. The Officer gets a Bolt Pistol to bring the points up to 235. They sit back with the other two squads to boost the leadership. I would only consider something different if I had a Retributer Squad with BoSL to bolster instead.

 

I noted that in the Witch Hunters army, there is a general lack of mid strength weaponry for handling mass light vehicles and assisting with monstrous creatures. My Guard platoon help to fill that shortfall (Autocannons in the squads would probably be better, but I stick with Missile launchers because they are more portable and so fit more with the fluff I've envisioned.

 

So far out of about a dozen games, I tend to only lose a squad out of the three (Unless I get steamrolled by an army of five battlewagons all with deathrollers...).

[WarriorFish]

IG can really help out an Inquisition army, but always think carefully about the role on the table and keep them as cheap as possible. Sentinels are great in 5th too, keep them cheap and outflank them to cause chaos. You'd be surprised the amount of damage they can do or the amount of attention they can divert from your main forces.

 

Others have already pointed out the other points worth knowing (especially assembling and painting the little bastards, but ranks of Guardsmen does look cool in the end!). As for the "poor man's Dominion squad" I think that sums it up enough - they're not durable enough to survive long, plus officers are a big enough target as it is.

 

I prefer to hide them away with a mortar or only give them a couple of special weapons. If you tool them out too much they become a liability as they become more attractive to shoot at the more they have. One last point: 2 Exos + 1 Russ = fun, but not for your opponent :P

[Eddie Orlock]

I'd give serious consideration to loading up the command section with a few 'Nade Launchers and having them advance through cover on objectives making an attention sucking nuisance of them selves.

[Gaz1858]

Whats the minimum cost for an imp guard platoon and sentinel unit? Could be fun!!!

[Eddie Orlock]

Whats the minimum cost for an imp guard platoon and sentinel unit?

You'll need two platoons to get Sentinals, you're looking at around ~400 points sparsly equipped

[Gaz1858]

You'll need two platoons to get Sentinals, you're looking at around ~400 points sparsly equipped

 

If that includes the sentinels it may be worth it but its still the same as my two 5 man PAGK squads with psycannons. Not sure of the trade off.

[Spacefrisian]

2 IG (minimum troop numbers) units plus sentinal is : 160+160+35 however you must add a weapon to the Sentinal so you get over 400 points in total. Or instead of taking 2 platoons you can also take 1 platoon and 1 armoured fist unit. the as heck units gives some mobility to the Static IG part.

[Melissia]

I used these principles myself when I designed my Sister w/Inducted Guardsmen army-- besides that, the Imperial Guard forces were actually more important in bringing heavy weapons to the field. I was able to include in my plan four heavy bolters and four lascannons to the field, the latter of which I would not have been able to bring with my Sisters in any other way.

 

And the best part of this is that I can do this without taking any Inquisitors.

 

 

 

 

As for sentinels: The minimum points you have to spend is 355 points, if you have two basic platoons and one sentinel w/o weapons. For three sentinels with autocannons, you'd spend 470 points including the basic platoons-- these are just twenty five men with no upgrades. A basic platoon costs 160 points.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I will restate that for a WH army, Zealots (if you consider them legal) are usually better than Guardsmen.

 

See, I never had the article talking about Zealots that I know of. It might be in a stack of White Dwarfs I inherited from an old roommate, but I don't even know which issue it's in :D

 

I am glad to see other people seem to be having the same general thoughts I was about the platoons...this tells me I'm not too far off base. Since one of my other armies I'm trying to beef up and collect in 40K is guard, it would save a lot of time and money to be able to reuse the mini's. Time to induct some more folks in regular non-apoc games!

 

(Edit) @Melissia: Simply call them Fraternis Militia and see how many fluff hounds smile!

[Charred Heretic]

I noted that in the Witch Hunters army, there is a general lack of mid strength weaponry for handling mass light vehicles and assisting with monstrous creatures. My Guard platoon help to fill that shortfall

 

Good observation, E.

Not the first time you've made a good, subtle insight.

[Red Lost Soldier]

Actually considering you don't need to take an infantry platoon to take an Armoured Fist squad, taking 2 as heck squads is a cheaper way of fulfilling the minimum troops requirement for the other goodies. 2 as heck squads cost only 260pts, though you'd want to spend 30pts for weapons on the Chimeras, and maybe a smidgen more for heavy/special weapons in the squads themselves. You'd still get extra bodies, and some vehicles to take the heat off your Rhinos, Immolaters, Sentinals, Exorcists or whatever.

 

BS3 does suck though.

[Melissia]

Unless you're going for mechanized infantry builds though, it might be better to get a couple standard infantry platoon and give them heavy weapons but otherwise leave them bare. Lots of lasguns and a few heavy weapons for relatively cheap, and for Sisters, they'll still have a good leadership as long as a VSS or Canoness is around. And that Leman Russ looks pretty damned good, too...