Quick Question re: shooting

[le_tiss]

Ok - might be really stupid BUT

 

 

My unit of GK's has a bead on a Raider full of DE

 

the GK are 8 strong with 5 in a building and 3 in the open (2 of those being the Psycannon dudes). The Psycannon dudes can draw a LoS to the raider without any terrain in the way BUT the rest of unit (or majority) IF they fired would mean a 4+ cover save to the Raider.

 

I choose to only fire the Psycannons - does my opponent get a cover save or not?

 

 

Page 16 - WHICH MODELS CAN FIRE

 

a player can choose not to fire with certain models - etc. etc - This must be declared at checking range time (which it was).

 

 

OR

 

is it about the whole unit not just who is firing?

 

 

thanks in advance and sorry if stupid Q

 

 

Giles

[Tfcdogbert]

Well there is the eternal debate over whether anyone gets cover saves versus psycannons at all, if the psycannons only fire then he gets no cover save, i think even if the whole unit fired he wouldnt get the cover saves from the psycannons in any case but would from the storm bolters only.

[Praeger]

So that we dont get carried away with the psycannons - lets think of it as a squad of marines with a missile launcher and ONLY the missile launcher has un-obstructed clear view LOS to the target.

[JamesI]

the new Deamonhunter FAQ clearly states that psycannons do not ignore cover.

[maniclurker]

It very clearly shows that if the majority of the firing unit has an obstruction, then the unit being fired upon gets a cover save. You can shoot through up to 2" of cover without giving a cover save, so if the guys with stormbolters can draw LOS, and are within 2" of the edge of the ruin, then they won't get a cover.

 

As for the psycannon... The only debate as to whether it ignores cover or not was caused by people trying way too hard to be a-holes. Nowhere in the entry does it state that it ignores cover, and the reference to only taking armor saves was in relation to it ignoring of the invul save. Also, GW has fixed any of these stupid arguments by FAQ'ing it. They made it very clear that you can take cover saves.

[nighthawks]

You can shoot through up to 2" of AREA cover without giving a cover save, so if the guys with stormbolters can draw LOS, and are within 2" of the edge of the ruin, then they won't get a cover.

 

I agree with the concepts you stated, but after the arguments I got into in 4th on this board, I have to try and nip loose word usage when I see it...

[Foreigner]

If you choose to fire only the weapons with an unobstructed view of the target, then those weapons would count as 2/2 of the firer's in the squad, thus more than 50% of the firing part of the squad can see, so no cover.

 

I had an opponent try to stop me from charging after I fired the plasma pistol on my sergeant but none of the bolters, claiming that someone in the squad had fired and someone in the squad had rapid fire weapons, so no charge. I almost employed my "metal chair" house rule: Our local store has metal chairs, if you attempt to use a stupid interpretation of something that should be obvious to cheat/win the game, you will be hit with said metal chair.

[le_tiss]

If you choose to fire only the weapons with an unobstructed view of the target, then those weapons would count as 2/2 of the firer's in the squad, thus more than 50% of the firing part of the squad can see, so no cover.

 

I had an opponent try to stop me from charging after I fired the plasma pistol on my sergeant but none of the bolters, claiming that someone in the squad had fired and someone in the squad had rapid fire weapons, so no charge. I almost employed my "metal chair" house rule: Our local store has metal chairs, if you attempt to use a stupid interpretation of something that should be obvious to cheat/win the game, you will be hit with said metal chair.

 

thanks Foreigner - that's how we played it in the end (poor DE raider and DE) lots of loverly Kill Points for me!!

 

Instead of a metal chair our particular favourite is "punch him in the stomach and steal his army case@ obviously all in jest (no really, honest guv!)

 

 

if this helps:

 

The majority of the GK were in the area terrain could see the raider but would have been looking through 8" of terrain - the 3 outside (2 Psycannon's) had a direct LoS to it without any terrain.

 

So was the raider obscured? i would assume so as page 62 mentions 50% of the target needs to be hidden by intervening terrain

 

BUT

 

I only fired with the Psycannon's

 

 

 

Page 22

 

If only one model is shooting, it will be easy to tell how many models in the target unit are in cover from the firer’s point of view.

 

If multiple models are shooting, you will need to work out how many models are in cover from the point of view of the majority of the firing models that are in range.

 

If the majority of the firers have a clear shot to the majority of the models in the target unit, the unit receives no save. Otherwise it does.

 

This may sound complex, but you will find that in reality in most cases it is quite obvious if a unit is in cover or not.

 

Copyright GW

 

 

looks like no cover save then

 

 

Giles

[maniclurker]

Damn, I guess it only counts for the firers... for some reason, I thought it counted for everyone in the squad.

 

Congrats on figuring that one out. And... holy shi-, GW made a rule that made sense.

[Gaz1858]

Very good question in the beginning i say. If that had cam up in my game i wouldnt have had a clue