SM as SOB?

[Fallen11]

I was thinking a lot about SOB army since they came out,but since they dont have all that many poses(only 1 box) and are not that cheap since they are all metal,I was thinking would it be legal to use SM bodies and mainly some female heads? thinking about them as sisters on steroids,hehe,with a bith more testosterone than regular sister,ie. like female bodybuilders

since I would wish to run as many as possible sisters,and those plastic marines bodies would give me opportunity for conversions...and would be kinda unique army...in the end,they both have bolters,and wear power armor...

[Melissia]

A few issues:

 

• Space Marines don't have access to Heavy Flamers on their troops, so you would have to convert every single one.
  
• Space Marines don't have access to Storm Bolters on their troops, so again, you would have to convert them.
  
• The Imagifier or Banner Bearer would need to be heavilly converted.
  
• Because of the body shape of the armor, adding feminine heads on them would more likely make them look like girly men rather than muscular women.
  
• Sisters are ordinary humans, while Space Marines are genetically enhanced superhuman freaks, so the body shape will be out of whack without some very careful converting and head size.
  
• Even if you succeed, you will only be able to play if your opponent approves of each and every model, and they can disapprove of specific models if they think it violates WYSIWYG rules too much.
  

[number6]

Even if you succeed, you will only be able to play if your opponent approves of each and every model, and they can disapprove of specific models if they think it violates WYSIWYG rules too much.

I think you're laying on the FUD a bit thick here. :P

 

All that a model requires to be WYSIWYG is for wargear to be properly represented. If he's playing a bolter-toting sister, in actuality a standard Space Marine model would be perfectly legal as a "counts as". It has power armour, it has a bolter, that's all that really matters. The statline will be from the codex throughout the army, so no undue confusion should occur.

 

None of the 40K models are "true-scale" as it is. Marine models aren't any taller than Tau Fire Warriors, though they should be at least 2'-3+' (~65cm - 100+cm) taller. And "in reality", any suit of armour that large, bulky, and full of machinery would totally obscure the gender of the person wearing it. It's patently ridiculous for Sisters to have noticeable bosoms on their power armour. Do you have any idea how stacked each and every one of them would have to be for that kind of physical. noticable modification to be necessary?! :lol: Don't get me wrong: I love the Sisters models, but I don't delude myself into thinking that they make any kind of sense, physically. ;)

[Melissia]

Well, yeah, I am. My dislike of Space Marines is probably getting in my way.

[Fallen11]

well...I like space marine models :P and I have a sweet scheme,that I would use,dheneb stone and red...looks really good,with red cross on shoulder pad...

 

 

 

All that a model requires to be WYSIWYG is for wargear to be properly represented. If he's playing a bolter-toting sister, in actuality a standard Space Marine model would be perfectly legal as a "counts as". It has power armour, it has a bolter, that's all that really matters. The statline will be from the codex throughout the army, so no undue confusion should occur.

 

 

my point exactly :lol:

 

 

now,only thing would be to find if there are some female heads that would look "normal" on sm bodies...any suggestions?

[werewolf_nr]

now,only thing would be to find if there are some female heads that would look "normal" on sm bodies...any suggestions?

 

That would be Doctor Thunder's area, but he sculpted a lot of female torsos to make it work. I believe he used fantasy wood elf heads, demon heads (the normal looking ones), probably other stuff as well.

[Eddie Orlock]

If he's playing a bolter-toting sister, in actuality a standard Space Marine model would be perfectly legal as a "counts as". It has power armour, it has a bolter, that's all that really matters.

 

...

 

Don't get me wrong: I love the Sisters models, but I don't delude myself into thinking that they make any kind of sense, physically. B)

I think it takes a little more than 'Armour and Weapon' to qualify as properly WYSIWYG without invoking 'Counts-As'. I'm sure I'd get objections if I attempted to field melta-toting guardsmen as 'Fire Dragons' without some explaination, despite the fact that by the back ground they both have carapace and a Melta-gun, and are in game terms humanoids with the mentioned melta weapons and a 4 up save. Nevermind that the list could have marines in it as a potential source of confusion.

 

The dimentional qualities of the armour may serve a critically important identification and recognition function. Recall that after Van Dire's reign the 'Decree Passive' was issued prohibiting 'Men-Under-Arms', and that with their armpits surgically removed, their legions were decidedly less than fiersome. Thus, a pattern of armour that clearly indicated that it's occupant was not male was imperative, lest these newly repentant forces find themselves the subject of hostile engagement by fellow Imperial forces.

 

Afterall, what insecure manly marine would be caught dead in armour with breasts on it? ;)

 

I'm still not a fan of Mr. Thunders works, and like so many projects I mearly lump them in the catagory of elaborate proxies, much like marine armoured sisters would be and proceed to go about my day sparing such foolery no further heed.

[number6]

I think it takes a little more than 'Armour and Weapon' to qualify as properly WYSIWYG without invoking 'Counts-As'. I'm sure I'd get objections if I attempted to field melta-toting guardsmen as 'Fire Dragons' without some explaination, despite the fact that by the back ground they both have carapace and a Melta-gun, and are in game terms humanoids with the mentioned melta weapons and a 4 up save. Nevermind that the list could have marines in it as a potential source of confusion.

I did assume that this is a Witch Hunter's list containing Sisters. In which case Marines are prohibited: there will be no confusion. If it's in power armour, it'll be a Sister. It has to be.

 

If we're talking about a Marines list with allied Sisters ... well, that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish. I'd be hesitant to allow marine models to "count as" sisters in that circumstance. That really would be confusing, so much so that it is likely to interfere with the game.

 

Also worth noting: I assumed that the Marines counting as Sisters was going to happen across the entire force. Mixing and matching regular Sisters models with Marine models should only happen for proxying purposes, temporarily. As a favor to the gamer as s/he puts together his/her force. I think it's safe to assume that the only reason people use alternate models to represent units (such as an Eldar "Exodite" army I saw that used Cold Ones as jetbikes, high elf dragons as Falcons, etc.) is to completely customize/convert their armies. Make them unique. This should be encouraged, not discouraged.

 

Along those lines: I don't know why you'd get objections from opponents for fielding melta Guard troopers as Fire Dragons. If you're playing Eldar, your opponent knows that Guardsmen aren't in the list. Say they're Fire Dragons ... and where's the confusion? If it's a temporary proxy because the gamer wants to try-before-buy Fire Dragons, what's the problem? On the other hand, maybe this person wants to create an Ad Mech type of list that uses the Eldar rules but relies on (possibly converted) Guardsmen models at it's core? Again, this is the kind of conversion that should be encouraged, not discouraged.

 

I don't care what you personally think about Doctor Thunder's fluff justifications: the army is cool. He put a lot of effort into it, it looks great, the rules for how it works are clear.... Cool!

[Eddie Orlock]

If it's in power armour, it'll be a Sister. It has to be.

 

...

 

I don't know why you'd get objections from opponents for fielding melta Guard troopers as Fire Dragons. If you're playing Eldar, your opponent knows that Guardsmen aren't in the list. Say they're Fire Dragons ... and where's the confusion?

 

...

 

I don't care what you personally think about Doctor Thunder's fluff justifications: the army is cool. He put a lot of effort into it, it looks great, the rules for how it works are clear.... Cool!

You and I both know that it'd have to be a sister, but would poor Timmy the newb know that? It's my opinion that the game should at least have considerations for Timmy, even if he is 29 and picking up the game 'cause all the guys at work play and he wants to know what they're talking about at lunch.

 

'Course, if you enter telling someone what something is, well, now you've just invoked 'Counts As' and a version of proxying. It's not a _____ army, it's really a _____ army that doesn't have rules out, but uses _____'s list instead. Not confusing for the guy who made it, he's intemately familiar with what it all is, or even his local gaming buddies, but I think Timmy the 29 year old newb might struggle with it a bit. He doesn't have the decade plus of hobby experience we both have.

 

I'm glad you don't care what I think of someone elses army whom I'm likely never to see in person. As long as he and his buddies have fun with it, it does its job. I'll try to consider it a sad day when the thought police stop me from finding something slightly disagreeable.

[Melissia]

*shrug* It'll work amongst buddies, sure, but if anyone objected to it, then you wouldn't really be able to use the model. That's how conversions work in 5E, especially ones which are not visually obvious. I mean, a conversion to make a bolter into a combi-flamer would be hard to object to, but taking SM armor and plopping a female head on it would still be a bit iffy...

[Tfcdogbert]

Not in the slightest! Its a girl in power armour, your playing a witch hunters army, ergo its a sister of battle.

[Toogeloo]

I would say, instead of going through all the work to make conversions, use your marines as proxys in friendly games first. Say you Plasmaguns are flamers and Lascannons are Heavy Flamers. Assault Marines are Seraphim.

 

Play for about 6 months using just proxys.

 

 

This would give you a good idea if you even like Sisters after several months. Who knows, maybe you won't like them as much and you may want to change forces again. I personally like my Sisters, but I have been wanting to proxy them as Bllod Angels so I can get a feel for the Boys side, and Blood Angels are a good transitional marine force since they have flamers with their jumpers (something I would be used to).

 

 

Anyways, tangent aside, I would proxy first. Might save you a lot of headache down the road should you decide you want to go back to marines or you don't like the girls all as much as you thought you would.

[Eddie Orlock]

Not in the slightest! Its a girl in power armour, your playing a witch hunters army, ergo its a sister of battle.

Unless you've pulled a 'Thunder' and are inclined to feel insulted that someone has confused your lovingly crafted feminine astartes you've inducted into your 'Witch Hunters' army with those wretched sororita. It's only a sister if you reject outright the idea that someone might decide that in their interpretation of 40k geneseed is non-gender selective.

 

We sure wouldn't want that around here, right?

[Tfcdogbert]

To be more specific, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck its probably a duck.

 

It looks like a SoB because of the headswap, it uses the rules of a SoB, therefore it is a SoB.

 

Edit: Keep forgetting the damn sororatis rule about no SM allies ><

[Toogeloo]

Well, there should never be a question. If you were to just use marines and you plan to play Sisters of Battle at all, you shouldn't need to do any kind of conversions really. Remember that allied Space Marines may never be used in a Witch Hunter army if Adepta Sororitas are present. Therefore you should never have a question as to what those marines in Power Armor are when you have Acts of Faith being used.

[number6]

Not in the slightest! Its a girl in power armour, your playing a witch hunters army, ergo its a sister of battle.

Unless you've pulled a 'Thunder' and are inclined to feel insulted that someone has confused your lovingly crafted feminine astartes you've inducted into your 'Witch Hunters' army with those wretched sororita. It's only a sister if you reject outright the idea that someone might decide that in their interpretation of 40k geneseed is non-gender selective.

 

We sure wouldn't want that around here, right?

All right, we don't need to start trolling. We sure wouldn't want that around here, right? ;)

 

You're talking about mixing Marines with Sisters again. And IMHO, I already allowed that would be somewhat dodgy. More importantlyl, as has been repeated numerous times, it's impossible in any Witch Hunters army.

 

So if you want to be offended by such conversions -- either on your behalf or on Strawman Timmy's behalf -- that's your choice. But telling somebody that converting Marines into Sisters is a priori disagreeable is not only factually untrue according to RAW, it is also unconstructive. After all, the OP was specifically asking for help in doing so. And I remind you that not only is trolling against the forum rules, but unconstructive posts are as well.

[Fallen11]

I would say, instead of going through all the work to make conversions, use your marines as proxys in friendly games first. Say you Plasmaguns are flamers and Lascannons are Heavy Flamers. Assault Marines are Seraphim.

 

Play for about 6 months using just proxys.

 

 

This would give you a good idea if you even like Sisters after several months. Who knows, maybe you won't like them as much and you may want to change forces again. I personally like my Sisters, but I have been wanting to proxy them as Bllod Angels so I can get a feel for the Boys side, and Blood Angels are a good transitional marine force since they have flamers with their jumpers (something I would be used to).

 

 

Anyways, tangent aside, I would proxy first. Might save you a lot of headache down the road should you decide you want to go back to marines or you don't like the girls all as much as you thought you would.

 

 

SInce I dont have sm army yet(had one,but sold it before) I would start a whole new army,and I would mainly use marines with robes(dark angels bodies and dark templar ones),heck even sob models have robes,so they would look more cool and similiar in small term to sob...

 

I saw some of those wood elves heads,and they look,well,quite good,maybe not perfect,but good enough...

[Melissia]

Unless you've pulled a 'Thunder' and are inclined to feel insulted that someone has confused your lovingly crafted feminine astartes you've inducted into your 'Witch Hunters' army with those wretched sororita. It's only a sister if you reject outright the idea that someone might decide that in their interpretation of 40k geneseed is non-gender selective.

 

We sure wouldn't want that around here, right?

The Sisters of Battle have never had gene-seed. They are ordinary women doing extra-ordinary things (which by default puts them several dozen points up on the awesomeness scale compared to the horribly overdone Space Marines). Thus, models that count as Sisters should never evoke that argument onless the person is a complete ignoramus, in which case you should just laugh them off in the first place.

[Eddie Orlock]

All right, we don't need to start trolling. We sure wouldn't want that around here, right? ^_^

No sir. Absolutely not sir. :lol: I'd like to claim I was only raising some the discussion points for their own limited value as discussion points. I like to believe that I'm not such a zelot that I can't appreciate modeling outside of my own views on what is 'canonical 40k', and what I would do myself.

... heck even sob models have robes,so they would look more cool and similiar in small term to sob...

It's more tabards with baggy sleeves, the torsos are generally unfabriced. Were I to persue this project, I'd look for the tabarded templar legs, unadorned chaos marine torsos, and the sleeved dark angel arms. I'd pay attention to the 'gut' armour and see if you couldn't round up parts that resemble the knobby corsets found on the metals. You might pillage things like standards from the brettonian line for Imagifiers and similar, they have a lot of fluer-de-lys imagery in common.

 

You might want to run the numbers and check if such a convoluted multi-kit-bash even makes economic sense for 'production' figures when compared to the normal metals.

The Sisters of Battle have never had gene-seed. ...

Cogniscient of the risks of continued diabolic advocacy, I shall expound upon some earlier discussion points. The claim was never that sororita were modified as marines were, how you got that from what I wrote perplexes me. It was that, to the exceptionally untrained, (i.e. Timmy the 29 year old strawman), figures in astartes pattern power armour must be marines 'cause the local red-shirt said so. While I'll agree that once it's established that there are no marines in the army they must be sisters, Squads of 10 astartes armoured figures with heavies and specials would bear a strong resemblance with tactical squads. 'Phim so depicted would closely resemble Assault marines. Retributers would look akin to devastators if the modeler wasn't careful. If I recall correctly, these are all things that might be inducted into a witch hunters army. Poorly presented as it was, it was more about being prepared to mention to every new opponent that they weren't marines, but sisters with a non-standard depiction. It's a burden of creativity.

 

Ease of recognition, in my opinion, and this is just an opinion, should be a key consideration in modeling, and that messing with other peoples expectations is not conducive to a hassel free gaming experience. I like to take the position that we shouldn't assume our opponents have indepth knowledge of our codices, just as I'd hope that they wouldn't be offended if I didn't demonstrate mastery of theirs. I'd be hard pressed if someone was to start quizing me on Eldar craftworld paint schemes, in depth 'Nid bio-morph recognition, or the intrecacies of Tau character wargear without recourse to referance materials. Perhaps I don't follow it all as closely as I should, or I used to, but I've allowed gaps to creep into my once nearly encyclopedic knowledge of 3rd edition and beyond 40k.

[CrazyIvan]

I'd just mourn the lack of the absolutely amazing Sisters sculpts. Out of date, single pose metal, and the marines are *still* playing catchup.

[Fallen11]

It's more tabards with baggy sleeves, the torsos are generally unfabriced. Were I to persue this project, I'd look for the tabarded templar legs, unadorned chaos marine torsos, and the sleeved dark angel arms. I'd pay attention to the 'gut' armour and see if you couldn't round up parts that resemble the knobby corsets found on the metals. You might pillage things like standards from the brettonian line for Imagifiers and similar, they have a lot of fluer-de-lys imagery in common.

 

You might want to run the numbers and check if such a convoluted multi-kit-bash even makes economic sense for 'production' figures when compared to the normal metals.

 

 

well it is not really expensive,since 5 dark angels marines bodies in robes cost me around 4$ at bitkingdom,and 3 BT ones with robes around 2,5$ so it is quite cheap...I would only need legs and hands with bolters,which I can get of ebay quite cheap(lots of cheap marines deals out there)