Rewrite the Horus Heresy

[Commissar Molotov]

Horus: "Oh. Ok. Nuke 'em. Just keep dropping atomics. Don't stop till Terra is shattered, we'll see how long the Emperor can hold his breath when he's floating in dead space."

 

Don't forget that if you follow that line of reasoning, Horus killing the Emperor would unleash the Starchild. And that would've affected the Heresy.

[RangerScum]

For starters, he should not have sent down the second wave at Isstvan III. As soon as the first wave of astartes landed on the planet, he should have virus bombed the planet immediately. This probably would have completley changed the outcome of the Heresy. Here is what it would have prevented:

 

1. Tarvitz wouldn't have been able to warn any of the troops or Garro.

2. Angron wouldn't have had the chance to go crazy and go down there and start slaughtering his own legion, which caused Horus in all of his pride to send down his own men and take the planet by force, wasting several months and thousands of troops.

3. Garro may not have had the opportunity to escape. Even if he did still make it to Terra, things would have progressed much quicker due to the lack of fighting at Isstvan III.

 

It really doesn't make any sense the way things happened. Why did Horus want to wait until Choral City was won before he virus bombed the planet? Everyone would have died either way.

 

Let's continue on and say that the traitor legions arrive at Terra three months ahead of schedule. The extra three months is very precious time, and if Horus had enough time to properly lay siege to the planet, he wouldn't have had to make such a hasty decision to drop his own shields in order to kill the emperor before the loyalist marines arrived.

 

However, this does not necessarily mean that Horus would have still been victorious. Let's pretend that Horus has been taking his time picking apart Terra. This may have caused the Emperor to realize that Horus is beyond saving, and at the very start of the fight the Emperor might have just killed Horus outright, not sustaining his mortal wounds and needing to be interred on the Golden Throne.

 

We're possibly talking about a very different future, all based on one single stupid tactical decision.

[Doghouse]

I think it might have played out differently had Horus' primarch brothers not been complete nutters by the time of the siege.

 

The trouble was that they each ahd their own individual agendas by that time and although worked together were not a unified force in spirit.

The Loyalists however were bonded by a single cause and their loyalty to their father and utter horror at the betrayal of the traitor primarchs ultimately made them more coherent dispute their sibling rivalries.

 

Ultimately it was Horus' lowering of the shields on his battle barge proved to be the downfall of both sides. Had he not provided the Emperor with that opportunity then the loyalists might have been able to hunker down and wait for the Dark Angels and Space Wolves to arrive.

 

The big question is did Horus do it out of some part of his former self emerging giving his father the chance to end the war or was it out of arrogance or frustration at knowing that the siege had to end there and then?

 

If he hadn't lowered the shields then the Emperor may well have been walking around today and the Imperium would be a very different place.

[noblesavage]

If I had not had that triple cheese burger for lunch, I might not have had to spend the next hour in the bathroom, and if I had been at my desk, then I might have seen that email, and I might then have been rewarded with a raise, and then we might be talking about an entirely different future, in which my Holy Golden Parking Space is closest to the building.

 

This is all stooooopid.

[Mr.(Space)Marine]

The big question is did Horus do it out of some part of his former self emerging giving his father the chance to end the war or was it out of arrogance or frustration at knowing that the siege had to end there and then?

 

It is possible he did it when a small part of his former self emerged, but I don't think he would have done it out of arrogance or furstration. Maybe he realised he was going to lose, and instead of being defeated, he decided to drag the Emperor down with him and cripple the Imperium by mortally wounding its leader.

[Hasoroth]

Horus: "Oh. Ok. Nuke 'em. Just keep dropping atomics. Don't stop till Terra is shattered, we'll see how long the Emperor can hold his breath when he's floating in dead space."

 

Don't forget that if you follow that line of reasoning, Horus killing the Emperor would unleash the Starchild. And that would've affected the Heresy.

 

"NUKE THE STARCHILD"

 

;)

 

Actually, Horus and Chaos could never have won the Horus Heresy. Why? Because the Starchild would come around, and forgive the gamer parlance, ":cussown" the Chaos Gods and Horus. The only "win" is trapping the Emperor in a twilight state, neither dead nor alive, so he can't go around kicking ass and taking names in a corporeal or non-corporeal form.

 

Of course, thats assuming that the Emperor really would turn into the Starchild, I don't have access to that particular piece of fluff, is the Emperor guaranteed a Pokemon style evolution to the Starchild?

[c-wrex]

Well first he has to get his level over 9000 and then be traded with a shiny feather.

[arbogast1]

If i wanted to RULE humanity, i would have sent out a portion (but not a majority) of my forces out to other worlds to distract the loyalists. basically, i would send out enough troops to keep loyalists too busy to do anything. i would also try to draw some of the defenders away from Terra itself. then i would have the remainder of my army (probably around 65-75%) attack terra from orbit, not committing to a ground assault until the imperial palace was well and truly demolished. this is pretty similar to what i think horus did, with one major exception. i would, i no way shape or form, let the emperor onto my ship. ever.

[Master Jeridian]

The problem is hindsight. Everyone keeps saying 'I wouldn't do this, because it led to this'- well when making those decisions you can't see the future.

 

I think Horus did a lot of things right, he did the best with the resources available:

 

-As said, his fellow Primarchs were going bonkers. Especially Fulgrim, by the time of the Siege he's just a daemon using the Emperor's Children to get his jollies. Angron only knows the command 'charge' by the siege, etc. It is not a unified command, Horus probably couldn't stop the EC ravaging civilian populations even if he wanted too.

 

-The Chaos Gods- he may be a master tactician, but he's a master tactician 'under the influence'. I liken it to drink or drugs, they distort his judgement. Did the Chaos Gods want a unified peaceful human empire at all? Under Horus or the Emperor, very unlikely. Instead they got constant war and strife- which is appealing for all 4 gods.

 

-Don't underestimate the Loyalist force. Horus was up against master tacticians too- including the Emperor, the Chuck Norris of space. It's so easy slag of the Ultramarines, etc in that 'teenage angst' way many gamers do- but sticking spikes to your armour doesn't suddenly make you more effective soldiers.

 

 

What could he have done differently? Not sure of anything, every act was practical, yet fell into unforeseen events.

 

A few suggestions I'd like to dispute:

 

-Just Nuke Earth. Horus wanted to replace the Emperor has head of humanity, you don't destroy the Cradle of Humanity to do that.

 

-'I'd send a Sons of Horus squad to support the Word Bearers, a squad to defeat the Space Wolves, etc, etc.' A lot of suggestion involve Horus sending more and more support to his fellow Legions in various parts of the galaxy.

1- the Sons of Horus are not an 'auto-win' option.

2- there's only so many of them

3- sending Sons of Horus may be counter-productive by insulting other Legions as incompetent

4- spreading your army to the four corners of the galaxy is not a good concentration of force

[Hasoroth]

Terra, land of the hated Emperor's birth, site of corruption and his ineptness. Where he never learned parenting skills and as such, never hugged Horus enough.

 

I don't know, it seems to me if you want to replace a demi-God as ruler of an Empire comprising of trillions of people, the best place to start would be removing every trace of him. It's just that, for the same reason you don't bring a nuclear missile to the table top game, it just wouldn't be fun if you rounded up the enemy on a planet and then blew it to pieces. Would it be more logical? It works for the Tyranids, but the game would be get boring quick.

 

But still, nukes, lances, torpedoes, virus bombs, orbital bombardments, suicide legions, explosives, the whole shebang, that's how I would have disposed of the Emperor, most of his lackeys, and replace him.

[Hobo Willie]

To be honest, any one of us could probably come up with a better strategy than the one chosen by Horus, only because we know what was going to happen. Horus was taking his time with the virus bombing on Istvaan III, because why waste missiles should the Istvaanites manage to defeat the Astartes sent to battle them? And he had know way to know that Angron would hurriedly drop to planet to kill the survivors himself...I believe in Galaxy in Flames he is frustrated by that immensely.

 

As for the the assault on the Imperial Palace, he had no way of knowing that Fulgrim's Emperor's Children would not be following orders and instead would be running amok over the planet's surface, or that Angron, in thrall to Khorne would be slamming his troops against the walls endlessly instead of tactically attempting a break. Also, as both Primarchs (and Legions) were now rabid dogs, any attempt at forcing them to do his will might have had them turn on him as well.

 

He had no way to know that the Word Bearers would fail to destroy the Ultramarines.

 

I'm just gonna say that he did the best he could with what he had.

[The Either]

i think that horus tryed to finish the war to quickly which is all fair if your grand plan works, but horus's didn't thanks to Argon charging in which led to a war he could ill afford to wage till the Empeor finding out.

 

On that i think he should have waged total war destroying the Imperiam one piece at a time attacking the Astartes Legions causeing huge casulties to them forceing them to retreat and lick their wounds, cutting off supply lines to Terra for the eventeal attack on it, keeping the World Eaters on a tight leash so they don't go out of control. getting the Word Bearers to recruit more troops to his side. and attacking forge worlds to resupply his army and makeing more Astartes.

 

Then attack Terra with his forces when the threat of a counter-attack by the Loyalist forces was weak.

 

I Know to attcheive all that world have taken years but to secure victory it would have been worth it.

 

though Horus did great things with the forces he had avaliable to him. He Didn't earn the title of Warmaster for nothing did he.

[arbogast1]

i think that horus tryed to finish the war to quickly which is all fair if your grand plan works, but horus's didn't thanks to Argon charging in which led to a war he could ill afford to wage till the Empeor finding out.

 

On that i think he should have waged total war destroying the Imperiam one piece at a time attacking the Astartes Legions causeing huge casulties to them forceing them to retreat and lick their wounds, cutting off supply lines to Terra for the eventeal attack on it, keeping the World Eaters on a tight leash so they don't go out of control. getting the Word Bearers to recruit more troops to his side. and attacking forge worlds to resupply his army and makeing more Astartes.

 

Then attack Terra with his forces when the threat of a counter-attack by the Loyalist forces was weak.

 

I Know to attcheive all that world have taken years but to secure victory it would have been worth it.

 

though Horus did great things with the forces he had avaliable to him. He Didn't earn the title of Warmaster for nothing did he.

 

the problem with waging a war of attrition like that would be that the imperium could can upon an almost limitless amount of resources. horus could definitely use some of those resources through conquest or subversion, but in a war of attrition, numbers ultimately decide the outcome, and numbers are something horus would not have, at least not at the same levels as the imperium.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

With the whole "I wouldn't let the Emperor near my ship" thing, think about it. Who else could take down the Emperor at the height of his powers?

 

Angron? Berserkers can be easily dealt with by a skilled swordsman.

 

Perturabo? Combat prowess unknown, maybe someone can update me on that.

 

Mortarion? Not known as a skilled combatant.

 

Fulgrim? Otherwise engaged.

 

The other traitor primarchs aren't at Terra either.

 

With the Ultramarines, DA and Space Wolves bearing down on you, and no way to get to the Emperor in time, Horus was right to make the Emperor come to him. His only real fault would be being to reliant on the favour of the Chaos Gods being enough to defeat the Emperor.

[Medwayman]

I might have worked harder at instigating strife amongst the loyalists. I'm not a lorehound, but didn't the Emperor task Horus with sending Russ to check out the Thousand Sons? I'd have sent the message as "pulverize the Thousand Sons". I'd then tell the Dark Angels that Russ had finally gone too far and was intending to pulverize the Thousand Sons, when the Emperor only wanted them investigated. Then I'd tell Guilliman my concerns that the Wolves and DA rivalry was about to boil over into a fratricide and that the Emperor wanted the two Primarchs brought to heal swiftly.

 

I think he'd have done better by building more discord and leveraging his time as trusted yet tainted advisor to the Emperor.

[Mr.(Space)Marine]

I might have worked harder at instigating strife amongst the loyalists. I'm not a lorehound, but didn't the Emperor task Horus with sending Russ to check out the Thousand Sons? I'd have sent the message as "pulverize the Thousand Sons". I'd then tell the Dark Angels that Russ had finally gone too far and was intending to pulverize the Thousand Sons, when the Emperor only wanted them investigated. Then I'd tell Guilliman my concerns that the Wolves and DA rivalry was about to boil over into a fratricide and that the Emperor wanted the two Primarchs brought to heal swiftly.

 

I agree Medwayman, I didn't think of that earlier.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

i dont think the SW and DAs would fall for that, for while there was alot of rivalry between the two legions, there was also alot of respect. the Lion would have figured things out himself.

 

atleast in my opinion.

 

wolf lord kieran

[c-wrex]

but what about the slight leman felt about the lion? Do you think the wolf would have accepted the lions help when prosecuting the one man he despised more than Jonson? Sorry if it makes no sense, im hammered right now.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

the duels between russ and the lion had two possible outcomes. it could either:

a. have them hating each other, snapping at each other whenever oppurtuniy arises like petty schoolchildren

b. it could spur them onto greater personal achievements, each one upping the other. from this a friendsip could form, overpowering the petty differences and truely showing their brotherhood.

 

option B has been presented. while not the most auspicious of beginings, they became great friends when they were forced to crusade alongside each other. while honor bouts are still fought the the respective chapters champions, once the duel has been setteled (for this occassion) they show each other the respect their primarchs had for each other.

 

then again, sometimes they dont. their only human.

 

wolf lord kieran

[Mr.(Space)Marine]

their only human.

 

You mean, SUPERhuman :thanks:

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

superhuman, human, whatever personally floats your boat.

but whatever super status they have, they are still human therefore prone to human emotions, reactions, etc.

 

wolf lord kieran

[c-wrex]

superhuman, human, whatever personally floats your boat.

but whatever super status they have, they are still human therefore prone to human emotions, reactions, etc.

 

wolf lord kieran

 

...no. They aren't human. They were made in a lab, not a woman. Not human.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

are we going to do this again c-rex?

 

i would point out that modern science has life born of a labratory, saying nothing of the science of the 10,000 years.

 

wolf lord kieran

[c-wrex]

I'm sorry, kieran, you're a cool cat and all, but any time you bring it up, I'm gonna have to say it.

[Master Jeridian]

They're based of a human genetic template- so my vote is they do feel human emotions, etc. Though I think they're supposed to be conditioned to be stronger in controlling emotions having to be generals of vast galactic armies and all.