Vulkan He'stan and the SOB

[high marshall jordan]

Well I happened to skim the new space marine codex and I got this strange idea: the salamander special character Vulkan has the ability to turn all meltas, multi-meltas, flamers, and heavy flamers in your army twin linked. Now if they were to have some SOB allies with them (by the way his ability is phrased) then the SOB will also have twin linked meltas, multi-melta, flamers, and heavy flamers.

 

So intended or not it seems the SOB may have found a good ally to hang around with on the table top ^_^ (unless they correct this on an FAQ or something :( )

[Tfcdogbert]

Not sure that that was entirely how the spirit of the rule was intended, (cliche fully intended) but from what ive seen of the rules its right yes, but i havent seen the codex.

[boreas]

Actually, a beardy player could field a 4000pts SoB apocalypse army and "add" Vulkan.

 

Not that I know such a player ^_^

 

Phil

[- 7eAL -]

The rule may say that it applies only to Salamanders Space Marines ...

[boreas]

It actually says "all units in your armylose the combat tactics special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers in your army will count as mastercrafted, and all flamers, heavy flamers, meltaguns and multimeltas count as twin-linked."... Hehe

 

Phil

[Pyriel]

I think I know exactly what character is going to be the head HQ of my 8000-or-so point apocalypse Salamanders army with attatched GKs. :D

[armbarred]

I've got a Salies army, I'm building a He'Stan as we speak actually. I might use some Grey Knights with him once in a while. I wouldn't play it that way as my units don't have Combat Tactics to lose, so the "Instead," clause can't happen.

 

But that's my two cents.

 

Now, if they FAQ that it will work with allies... then all those cool TH wielding GK termies, Inquisitors...

[Toogeloo]

So intended or not it seems the SOB may have found a good ally to hang around with on the table top

Sisters of Battle cannot have allied Space Marines, and if you intend to ally the Sisters with the Salamanders instead, you can only field 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 2 Troops, and 1 fast attack.

 

The most you will probably get is up to 7-10 special weapons and up to 3 Heavy Flamers. Considering how weak Sisters are in Close Combat compared to Marines, you might gain some advantage in shooting, but you lose your troops faster if anything survives and you aren't prepared for it.

[Vadth the Bluelock]

Wow. I've already decide I was going to add space marines to my sisters army. I was going to start with Blood Angels since their codex is free and I like their fluff. The only other space marines that interested me are the Salamanders and I was going to started them much much later. However, if this is true then I will be starting them sooner than I thought!

 

So intended or not it seems the SOB may have found a good ally to hang around with on the table top

Sisters of Battle cannot have allied Space Marines, and if you intend to ally the Sisters with the Salamanders instead, you can only field 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 2 Troops, and 1 fast attack.

 

The most you will probably get is up to 7-10 special weapons and up to 3 Heavy Flamers. Considering how weak Sisters are in Close Combat compared to Marines, you might gain some advantage in shooting, but you lose your troops faster if anything survives and you aren't prepared for it.

 

You can more than 10 special weapons if you really push it and up to 4 Heavy Flamers(2 with Battle Sisters, 2 with Celestian). I've already started planning and playing a half Space Marine/Sisters of Battle list and I think there is alot of potential synergy between the two.

 

On a side note, this is my first post. I've been lurking here for a few months and overall I like the boards here.

[Toogeloo]

You can more than 10 special weapons if you really push it and up to 4 Heavy Flamers(2 with Battle Sisters, 2 with Celestian). I've already started planning and playing a half Space Marine/Sisters of Battle list and I think there is alot of potential synergy between the two.

I did forget about the Retinue possibility. So you can have up to 4 Heavy Flamers and 8 special weapons, or up to 12 special weapons all together (unsure of whether or not combi-weapons get the bonus, if so then add 4 more). Celestians are pretty expensive however to really make this a viable tactics, regardless of holy hatred, they are still quite weak in close combat, so they may only fire once before you lose them. But it will hurt pretty good, especially if you DG with TL flamers.

 

Efficiently thinking, you may just want to run the one squad of Dominions and 2 Troops of Battle Sisters only. Celestians are too expensive, and the Canoness wouldn't really fit (you are only taking her to get more Celestians). I don't know much about the Salamanders, but in 1500+ I would likely go with Vulkan, about 2-3 tactical squads, 2 squads of Sisters, 1 Squad of Dominions, 2 squads of Assault Marines or attack bikes (to help out the Battle Sisters in assault), and then fill out the rest with Devastators, Tanks, or whatever for long range support, if you have any points left over.

[jakehunter52]

I hate to put a bucket on everyone's fire but I don't think it will apply to sisters. After looking at the wording, "All units in your army lose the combat tactics special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers in your army will count as mastercrafted, and all flamers, heavy flamers, meltaguns and multimeltas count as twin-linked", I noticed that it says "instead" which means that there must be something that it replaces and since Sisters don't have combat tatics, they can't have it replaced w/ twin linked flamers and such. Yeah, sucks but it was lame in the first place since it didn't make fluff sense and was twisting a rule anyway. However, it does make a great idea for the new codex, that maybe there is a stanch purtian who believes greatly in the cleansing power of fire and thus dons this ability upon the army.

[Swordlord]

Besides, don't twin-linked weapons allow you to reroll missed to-hit rolls? Flamers and heavy flamers don't roll to hit, only to wound. As I haven't delved deeply into the 5th ed. rules, has this changed? If not, Vulcan - as regards flamers - gifts a rather useless ability.

 

For the meltas and multimeltas, it's sweet.

[GTang]

Twin-linked flamer templates re-roll wounds or AP rolls.

[metcalfedan]

Now, if they FAQ that it will work with allies... then all those cool TH wielding GK termies, Inquisitors...

 

They should have daemon-hammers instead of thunder hammers. ouch.

[armbarred]

Except you can only have 1 daemon hammer per army...

[Swordlord]

Twin-linked flamer templates re-roll wounds or AP rolls.

 

Ta! :D

I did the intelligent thing and went home after work and read the 5th ed rules cover-to-cover. Then I reviewed the 4th ed rules. I can be such a dufus. ;)

[verpine]

What the heck are combat tactics?

[Toogeloo]

Combat Tactics allow a squad to purposely fail any leadership tests for morale and pinning if they want to.

[DevianID]

Combat tactics lets you choose to fail a morale check. Can be great, can be meh.

[Charred Heretic]

I hate to put a bucket on everyone's fire but I don't think it will apply to sisters. After looking at the wording, "All units in your army lose the combat tactics special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers in your army will count as mastercrafted, and all flamers, heavy flamers, meltaguns and multimeltas count as twin-linked", I noticed that it says "instead" which means that there must be something that it replaces and since Sisters don't have combat tatics, they can't have it replaced w/ twin linked flamers and such. Yeah, sucks but it was lame in the first place since it didn't make fluff sense and was twisting a rule anyway. However, it does make a great idea for the new codex, that maybe there is a stanch purtian who believes greatly in the cleansing power of fire and thus dons this ability upon the army.

 

I agree. The "Instead" clause creates a pre-condition that the Allied units do not possess.

 

Twin-Linking special weapons is a mighty powerful rule.

I hope it costs 200 points.

[Toogeloo]

I agree. The "Instead" clause creates a pre-condition that the Allied units do not possess.

Then you run into a new problem. The vehicles in the Salamander Army do not have Combat Tactics either, but the rule is intended on giving them TL capabilities. You cannot give the stipulation to Sisters of Battle and not give it to the vehicles. If the word "Instead" is the only thing keeping the Sisters from TLing their flamers, then remember vehicles don't get to TL either.

[Charred Heretic]

That does cast doubt upon that aspect of the denial.

However, I still see a several of problems with applying this.

The most of which is it might be consistently frowned upon.

[Captain Malachi]

Wow, this argument is everywhere, by RAW (as I read it anyway) sisters flamers/meltas etc get twinlinked status, however, I will not be adding sisters to sallies for this very reason, I will let another play it that way, but I won't do it myself.