5th Ed Questions

[Wolf89]

Right, I spoke to a sales rep at work, he basically said speak to the design team and rulez boyz about SW v SM, because it's going to require one hell of an errata to fix this mess. On a different note, at a Tornuament I went to me and Wisey decided that the Ven Dread didn't get the +1A for Countercharge because the rule didn't make sense at the time. However having read the rules in more detail he probably does... yay. We're now offically broken. Also, if the current FAQ stands then we get all the new SM toys for Rhinos/RB's/Whirlies/Vindies etc but we WON'T get the new units such as the Ironclad and Redeemer, as they aren't in our Codex. The only exception to this so far is the Crusader.

 

First, we do get the Ironclad adn Redeemer as it's a variant of the SM codex "All of the different variants and options available to these units in a Space Marine army are also available to the Space Wolves." (straight from the FAQ) so we'd get those variants.

 

Second, we do NOT get to use the points for razorbacks and rhinos as written because the FAQ doesn't say to, the only thing we do get is the options for the vehicles, so our extra armor, and weaponry upgrades we take from C:SM which has become more expensive. :lol:

 

The second part is what I'm hoping GW will clear up, because I'm not spending 65-70 points on a rhino, I just won't.

[WolfLordLars]

Never noticed the points listed in the SW codex... thats odd.

 

The current Errata would seem to me to imply that we use the rules (and costs) from the SM codex. Thats what I have always done, and thats what I will continue to do, even with Rhino/Razorback and Drop Pods.

 

Also why I am not really jumping for joy with attempting to get back into tournaments. Would rather enjoy the games and have fun.

[Wolf89]

Never noticed the points listed in the SW codex... thats odd.

 

The current Errata would seem to me to imply that we use the rules (and costs) from the SM codex. Thats what I have always done, and thats what I will continue to do, even with Rhino/Razorback and Drop Pods.

 

Also why I am not really jumping for joy with attempting to get back into tournaments. Would rather enjoy the games and have fun.

 

I don't think most people would call you on that anyways, but I don't see where we would be able to take those points from the C:SM because it doesn't list them, however I am SURE GW meant it that we take the points from C:SM so if I was running an event and a SW player uses the points in C:SM I'd let it fly.

[WolfLordLars]

My thing is, I do it across the board. Everything that doesnt have an entry in the SW codex, I use the SM codex. Thought that was how it worked ever since 4th and the new SM codex was released. Didnt even think to keep using the same old prices, good or bad.

 

Thats just funny that I never really noticed it before. I thought the prices listed there were more for reference, like the vehicle armory listings. When the SM Codex gets updated, the info becomes outdated.

 

I wonder what the difference is, overall? I mean, our troops cost more, but we get more as a result. Our terminators are still cheaper overall, right, even if we have issues with the vehicles?

[Wolf89]

Well the biggest difference comes with the razorback, we pay (70~90) points for ours and the new dex pays (40~60~70) points.

 

I still don't think we pay less for our terminators, I mean on average I'm spending 65~75 per terminator, even if you save the 2+ once, you don't get a re-roll on the 5+ invulnerable, so in essence it MIGHT count as 2 terminators, but against AP2 and 1, it's only 1 terminators. Being able to have TH/SS mixed with AC's and Heavy flamers is always nice though. ;)

[Mantinel]

Hello, I've recently bought some Terminators and I am wondering if one can have 7 Terminators (with possibly 3 AC/HF) combined with WGBL with another heavy weapon.

 

Also could these big guys pop out of a Crusader, shoot their target and charge into their decimated enemy?

 

One more thing about Scouts, are they allowed to deploy 6" from opponents deployment zone, then move, shoot and charge? Or is OBELing counting as having moved already?

 

Thanks in advance

[Wolf89]

Hello, I've recently bought some Terminators and I am wondering if one can have 7 Terminators (with possibly 3 AC/HF) combined with WGBL with another heavy weapon.

 

Also could these big guys pop out of a Crusader, shoot their target and charge into their decimated enemy?

 

One more thing about Scouts, are they allowed to deploy 6" from opponents deployment zone, then move, shoot and charge? Or is OBELing counting as having moved already?

 

Thanks in advance

 

You can have 7 Terminators with the combination of 3 AC/HF combined with a WGBL's heavy weapon to give you 4 heavy weapons.

 

You can also shoot with them coming out of a Crusader.

 

You can also charge after shooting Heavy Flamers coming out of a Crusader.

 

You CANNOT charge after shooting Assault Cannons coming out of a Crusader.

 

You can move 6" when they OBEL in, but it's from the table edge, no more movement allowed, but then yes, shooting and charging goes.

[WolfLordLars]

You CANNOT charge after shooting Assault Cannons coming out of a Crusader.

 

Uhh... why not? Terminators can move and shoot. The rule saying that models that fire heavy weapons cant assault is more for the regular troops. Terminators have been able to move, shoot, and assault with AC's before, looks like they still can.

[Wolf89]

You CANNOT charge after shooting Assault Cannons coming out of a Crusader.

 

Uhh... why not? Terminators can move and shoot. The rule saying that models that fire heavy weapons cant assault is more for the regular troops. Terminators have been able to move, shoot, and assault with AC's before, looks like they still can.

 

There is a still debated topic on this, no where in the C:SM and C:SW say that marines in TDA can shoot heavy weapons and assault, that ability was given in 4th ed. it no longer is there in 5th ed.

[WolfLordLars]

Eh, I will run with it. The new SM codex will probably clear it up.

[Tuzgai]

I don't think Rhinos will cost more for upgrades. "All of the different variants and options available to these units in a Space Marine army are also available to the Space Wolves." Rhinos and razorbacks aren't mentioned, so the costs for their upgrades shouldn't change.

[soonerhef]

The new SM Codex clears it up. Terminators will be able to assault after firing heavy weapons.

[Wolf89]

I don't think Rhinos will cost more for upgrades. "All of the different variants and options available to these units in a Space Marine army are also available to the Space Wolves." Rhinos and razorbacks aren't mentioned, so the costs for their upgrades shouldn't change.

 

That's the thing, they aren't mentioned in the FAQ, you may want to re-read it. :)

 

And yes, the new codex clears it up, but until then (October 8th?) we'll have a slight nerf, hence all mine are equipped with heavy flamers.

 

It'll be gone within less than a month, so no need to ellaborate much more about it.

 

Also, the FAQ we use the upgrades via C:SM so things like our extra armor are now 15 points :tu:

[WolfLordLars]

Bah... I am using the SM points for rhinos and pods as well... :P

[Spacefrisian]

Small not on our scouts and OBEL. Did anyone notice it says "on the opponent table edge" that means in my oppinion that you don't move that 6" from it.

[WolfLordLars]

Small not on our scouts and OBEL. Did anyone notice it says "on the opponent table edge" that means in my oppinion that you don't move that 6" from it.

 

Ok, if you dont want to move, thats up to you. AFAIK, its always been a 6" move from that table edge, just like reserves on your side of the table.

[Wolf89]

Small not on our scouts and OBEL. Did anyone notice it says "on the opponent table edge" that means in my oppinion that you don't move that 6" from it.

 

Ok, if you dont want to move, thats up to you. AFAIK, its always been a 6" move from that table edge, just like reserves on your side of the table.

 

Works exactly like this, you get your 6" move just like reserves as it says, "just like reserves".

[Ferinesian Wolf]

yeah , thats how i read it. Its basically a move from the opponents table edge

[the jeske]

First, we do get the Ironclad adn Redeemer as it's a variant of the SM codex "All of the different variants and options available to these units in a Space Marine army are also available to the Space Wolves."

well but the ironclad or the redeemer are not versions of land raider /dreadnoughts we have lists in our codex . in fact they are separete options /units from the sm codex .

Now if the entry for dread was -X pts drea -extra X pts venerable - Extra X pts Ironclad then we could take it . But in the sm dex the Ironclad and the Dreadnought are different units .

 

rhinos .razorbacks etc on the other hand have one entry so we can take them all at the pts cost listed in the sm codex . At least thats what we got from GW , when we were doing the translation of codex sm.

[WolfLordLars]

well but the ironclad or the redeemer are not versions of land raider /dreadnoughts we have lists in our codex . in fact they are separete options /units from the sm codex .

Now if the entry for dread was -X pts drea -extra X pts venerable - Extra X pts Ironclad then we could take it . But in the sm dex the Ironclad and the Dreadnought are different units .

 

rhinos .razorbacks etc on the other hand have one entry so we can take them all at the pts cost listed in the sm codex . At least thats what we got from GW , when we were doing the translation of codex sm.

 

I disagree with your interpretation and fully intend to use the units available. Afterall, it would seem to say that by taking all variants of the Dreadnoughts EXCEPT for the Venerable, the Ironclad would be available. Same with the Land Raiders.

 

To each their own I suppose. Its a good time to be a Wolf.

[the jeske]

well my hands our bound here , its the official anwser we got from GW . But still a lot of this stuff may change if they decide to make an errata to power armor dex . And it looks like they want to do it .

[WolfLordLars]

well my hands our bound here , its the official anwser we got from GW . But still a lot of this stuff may change if they decide to make an errata to power armor dex . And it looks like they want to do it .

 

Something I learned years ago... NOTHING is official from GW until its in print. It takes minutes.. MINUTES.. to update a .pdf. If they dont want to take a few minutes to update a FAQ, then it must not be worth mentioning.

 

Until I see something in print from GW that says as much, and by in print I dont mean on forums (someone once tried to cite a discussion they had with some designed on the GW forums as being 'legit'), I am going to play it the way its written in the current FAQ.

 

If you choose not to, thats your business. As far as I am concerned, the rules support it as written.

[Wolf89]

First, we do get the Ironclad adn Redeemer as it's a variant of the SM codex "All of the different variants and options available to these units in a Space Marine army are also available to the Space Wolves."

well but the ironclad or the redeemer are not versions of land raider /dreadnoughts we have lists in our codex . in fact they are separete options /units from the sm codex .

Now if the entry for dread was -X pts drea -extra X pts venerable - Extra X pts Ironclad then we could take it . But in the sm dex the Ironclad and the Dreadnought are different units .

 

rhinos .razorbacks etc on the other hand have one entry so we can take them all at the pts cost listed in the sm codex . At least thats what we got from GW , when we were doing the translation of codex sm.

 

I think I have a better way of explaining it now so there's no more discussion about it. Straight from the FAQ:

 

"All of the different variants and options available to these units in a Space Marine army are also available to the Space Wolves. The exception to this is the Venerable Dreadnoughts, which must be chosen from the Space Wolves army list (as detailed on page 7), and not the Space Marines army list."

 

When you look in the new SM codex (you might not have gotten a peek yet, but trust me it's there ;) ) there are multiple times where variants are listed and one example is the dedicated land raiders for terminators, and this counts for redeemers and crusaders.

 

Also, looking at the FAQ again you notice "the exception to this is the Venerable Dreadnought, which must be chosen from the Space Wolves army list..." why would they make mention to not being able to use a ven. dread (because we have our own that we use that's WAY better) if we weren't meant to look at them as a "variant".

 

This to me clearly says we can use ironclads, redeemers, and so on.