Close Combat WH =][=

[Apogee]

I'm designing my WH =][= and retinue to be close combat oriented, mainly for taking down nasty single monsters, e.g. nidzilla or scary marine characters. Yes, i know this is inefficient, but I play mostly for fun, not compeditive, so meh.

 

My retinue now is:

3 Acolytes w/ Power Armour and a Mancatcher (weaken those scary models)

3 Crusaders (cause they look badass)

3 Familiars (+1 I is nice, and the others are abalative wounds)

2 Hospitallers (If I'm in a LR or on foot)

 

I have the =][= model holding a bolter-stake crossbow and a sword. I quite like the B-S, since it allows for long range shooting and a simple assault attack, and if I'm fighting a Synpase or Psyker I'll get a few easy wounds. So, I have 3 options for melee loadout:

Bolter-stake and powersword, with His Will Be Done to help turn the melee tables - thats each wound made coutns as two for morale purposes. Expensive at 35 points of gear.

Bolter-stake and Hammer Hand, allowing for S6 hits but no armour piercing. The sword becomes decorative ;). (20 points, fairly cheap)

Bolt-Pistol (shave off the bow) and Force Weapon, allowing for the mean instant death hits, but pricey at 41 points total and useless against 1-wound models. Also, only 3 attacks instead of 4.

 

I'm thinking the Hammer Hand loadout, both for price and for variability. I already have 6 power weapon attacks from the Crusaders, so some high strength attacks could be handy against creatures with bad saves (regular troops who aren't MeQs). Also, any other gear I should take? I'm thinking a digital weapon and perhaps a rosarius if I have points to spare. Thoughts?

[jakehunter52]

Well dude, I think that you are going to find a hard time trying to accomplish wait you aim for. I think that it is safe to say that you will always be at a severe disadvantage when you are trying to fight CC w/ str 3, t 3 models, even with nifty things. I think your retinue loadout is very good, it gives you a big retinue so it can soak up alot of wounds, not to mention the hospitallers making you even more durable. One question I have (I don't have the codex w/ me right now) is if the man catchers count as a weapon and if so, a single handed weapon because if they do, remember that you already start w/ a pistol I believe so that increases your attacks and is vitally important. As far as the loadout for your Inquisitor, I really don't think any of those are going to work. Remeber, you hit on 3+ and then against MEQs, 5+ and if not a power weapon, usually a 3+ or better. At best possibile scenario, like against a IG commander, you have about a 16% for each of your attacks to actually do a wound, which means for your force weapon, a 41% chance of killing him (taking into account the pyker test). Against a normal space marine, 18%. Against a captain in artificer armour, less than 9%. Really, the only models that can effectively use force weapons are Grey Knights since they count as both power and force weapons and are wielded at high WS and strength. Hammerhand suffers from the same problems of armour saves, which only makes them effective against daemons (since they only have their invo) and horde armies (orks in particular). I think your best bet is the evisorator. Sure, it is overused but for good reason. You have a good chance of hitting and killing and since you have a large retinue, you are very assured that he isn't going to get killed before hand. Otherwise, don't forget the krak grenades and good luck.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Welcome to the ranks of the people that design their retinues for fun and fluff :)

 

I also use that particular Inquisitor model, and the wargear I have selected (mostly for fun) is as follows:

bolter stake-crossbow, force weapon, auspex, digital weapons, frag grenades, hexagrammics wards, melta bombs, psycannon bolts, psychic hood, psyocculum, rosarius, His Will Be Done, Scourging

 

The rosarius is fantastic, as combined with the chiurgeons and acolytes gives your Inquisitor a much longer life expectancy than most people would expect.

 

I alternate between the Force Weapon and His Will Be Done based on am I fighting one tough beastie, or a large number of other opponents. The bolter stake-crossbow I took because it looks neat, and it'd be useful against eldar or when I want to assault out of my Land Raider ride without using Scourging, so I can use either the Force Weapon or His Will Be Done in the ensuing combat. Or in situations where you can't use a psychic power due to Eldar or Tyrannids or other wierdness. The psychic hood is simply awesome, as an Inquisitor Lord is leadership 10, and our hood (until errata'd) affects the entire tabletop.

 

The crusaders are rock solid, with a 4+ invulnerable save, and multiple power weapon attacks since the supression shield counts as a second weapon. The mancatcher acolytes will definately be useful. I think I would trade one of the familiars for an extra chiurgeon, in case one of them takes a wound you can still ignore one power weapon/instant death attack on your Inquisitor. You can also trade one familiar for a sage simply to get a +1 BS on your Inquisitor (I did that) and still have it be an ablative wound.

 

One thing to keep in mind is Inquisitorial Land Raiders, until errata'd, carry 10 models, not 12 like the new spiffy Space Marine ones. So your retinue would be 2 models too large to fit with the Inquisitor in a Land Raider.

 

Be prepared for people to severely under-estimate the lethality of your retinue. If you pair it up with other 'scary' intimidation CC models (Eversor Assassins, Death Cult Assassins, Seraphim) you can probably see lots of attacks going away from your retinue, prolonging it's lifespan. People chalk it up to not being a threat for some reason. Yes they're Str 3, but so are a lot of things that are lethal in combat. Even if you don't necessarily kill the monstrous creature right off, you can certainly delay it for most of the game by reducing it's attacks to a minimal number and stalling. And remember, on the charge most everything you have gets extra attacks. If you really want to power weapon spam, you could trade the acolyte's power armor/mancatcher for a carapace armor/power weapon load out. That's 7 models with power weapons, all with multiple attacks, looking at about (lets say 3 for the inquisitor base) 22 power weapon attacks on the charge, 15 otherwise. That's not shabby, even with Str 3.

 

It'll be fun. Might not always win the game or mow through every enemy model, but it'll be fun :D

[panbient]

i've actually been using a squad like this recently with friends (especially against the one who plays nids). it's usually around 350 points though, that's including a chimera. i find a transport vital in getting the squad close enough quick enough to really matter in CC. i also load out the inquisitor with a power stake and force weapon for taking out giant bugs. never bothered with more than one familiar though, i also take the 'word of the emperor' power as well to hopefully prevent enemy charges into my squad.

 

i don't bother sending this squad into mobs until the hive tyrants are dead, that's the whole point of the squad for me.

[Eltnot]

Since you're going the mancatcher option, might I suggest giving your Inquisitor an Eviscerator. Combined with "his will be done", this should guarantee you a few wounds that would get doubled. It also makes him more useful at hunting monstrous creatures. Changing one of the crusaders out for a combat servitor would also help a little in this role. The only problem then becomes the cost of this unit...

[Apogee]

One question I have (I don't have the codex w/ me right now) is if the man catchers count as a weapon and if so, a single handed weapon because if they do, remember that you already start w/ a pistol I believe so that increases your attacks and is vitally important.

Nope, Mancatchers are two-handed. Although I still have an itty bitty pistol when I charge :P

At best possibile scenario, like against a IG commander, you have about a 16% for each of your attacks to actually do a wound, which means for your force weapon, a 41% chance of killing him (taking into account the pyker test). Against a normal space marine, 18%. Against a captain in artificer armour, less than 9%.

Force weapons are power weapons always, so at least I'd have that going for me. And if I face a beastly captain that I just can't kill, I'll kill everything else in his retinue first, and use the mancatchers to avoid being smushed.

 

Otherwise, don't forget the krak grenades and good luck.

The advantage of Hammer Hand would be that I'd already have S6, so thats handy too.

 

Welcome to the ranks of the people that design their retinues for fun and fluff ;)

Thanks :lol:

 

The rosarius is fantastic, as combined with the chiurgeons and acolytes gives your Inquisitor a much longer life expectancy than most people would expect.

Yeah, I think I'll definately take a rosarius and two hospitallers. Thats almost 50 points, but makes Mr. =][= VERY hard to kill, as longa s I don't need to allocate wounds to the hospitallers. 6+ save FTL...

 

The crusaders are rock solid, with a 4+ invulnerable save, and multiple power weapon attacks since the supression shield counts as a second weapon. The mancatcher acolytes will definately be useful. I think I would trade one of the familiars for an extra chiurgeon, in case one of them takes a wound you can still ignore one power weapon/instant death attack on your Inquisitor. You can also trade one familiar for a sage simply to get a +1 BS on your Inquisitor (I did that) and still have it be an ablative wound.

One thing to keep in mind is Inquisitorial Land Raiders, until errata'd, carry 10 models, not 12 like the new spiffy Space Marine ones. So your retinue would be 2 models too large to fit with the Inquisitor in a Land Raider.

Well, rethinking the retinue, if I take 3 Acos, 3 Crusaders, 3 Familiars, 2 Hospitallers and the =][= himself, that gives me 12 models, so I *could* take a Chimera and use the "Wall of Armour" to give me a turn of respite. Pity about the LR though. I'll think about the Sage some more - it might be worth taking him over a familiar, one extra BS for (i think) 4 points isn't bad, even if I only get 1 or 2 turns of shooting.

 

Be prepared for people to severely under-estimate the lethality of your retinue. If you pair it up with other 'scary' intimidation CC models (Eversor Assassins, Death Cult Assassins, Seraphim) you can probably see lots of attacks going away from your retinue, prolonging it's lifespan. People chalk it up to not being a threat for some reason.

I was thinking of doing that. I love DCAs, and have 6 painted up. I hate waiting for the enemy to get close to me, though. I also have a Vindicare - perhaps take him with the =][= for the sole purpose of picking off whatever scary models are in CC, since he can do that now. Shooting the Powerfist or Powerclaw or whatever would be pretty handy. I worry about trailing DCAs behind the transports - too easy to flankt he transports and shoot them up unless I have a big wall.

 

Since you're going the mancatcher option, might I suggest giving your Inquisitor an Eviscerator. Combined with "his will be done", this should guarantee you a few wounds that would get doubled. It also makes him more useful at hunting monstrous creatures. Changing one of the crusaders out for a combat servitor would also help a little in this role. The only problem then becomes the cost of this unit...

I'm worried about using an Eviscerator, since I'd normally be striking at I5. Which is why a Force Weapon is tempting, since if I *do* kill something, it definately won't get to hit back. On that note, how many big, angry creatures (and characters) are immune to instant death these days? Last games I recall in 4th had a lot of marines with Iron Halos and the like, and made ID nearly impossible, and very impractical.

[Imperator Mos]

Looks good to me. I'm going to vote that you use a PW on the =][= and include a combat servitor. Also, mount them in a Chimera, or a Valkyrie.

 

Another brilliant idea would be too attach a Priest with carapace armour and an eviscerator.

[Apogee]

Oooh, I havn't thought of using a Priest! Thats a good idea. Now he has a use aside form my not-so-oft used Repentia Squad :).

[Inquisitor Fox]

Another brilliant idea would be too attach a Priest with carapace armour and an eviscerator.

Unfortunately you can't do this. The Priest entry has a very clear list of what they can be attached to (Celestians, Battle Sister squads, Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, Dominions, Sisters Repentia, Inducted Imperial Guard Infantry squads and Armored Fist squads), then says that a Priest is NEVER counted as an independant character.

 

So they're stuck with that squad until it is wiped out, and there's no way to attach one to an Inquisitorial retinue (sucks, I know... it WOULD be awesome if we could...)

[Imperator Mos]

I usually don't play any one that knows the WH Codex that well :)

[Apogee]

Another brilliant idea would be too attach a Priest with carapace armour and an eviscerator.

Unfortunately you can't do this. The Priest entry has a very clear list of what they can be attached to (Celestians, Battle Sister squads, Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, Dominions, Sisters Repentia, Inducted Imperial Guard Infantry squads and Armored Fist squads), then says that a Priest is NEVER counted as an independant character.

 

So they're stuck with that squad until it is wiped out, and there's no way to attach one to an Inquisitorial retinue (sucks, I know... it WOULD be awesome if we could...)

Well thats odd. I guess it's back to 3 X Acos, 3 X Crusaders, 3 X Familiars, and 2 medics. Maybe a Sage isntead of a familiar, I'm not sure yet :).

 

*edit* Whoops, I see that now. Not an IC, boo.