Brother Nex Lexicus Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Brothers, I have often pondered many things about the Horus Heresy and its turn of events, but it was only until recent that the thought had struck me "What if the loyalist Legions had become traitors?". 10k after the original Legions, we now know the Emperors Children to be warped sexually in their black and purple armour. Of course, who could forget the World Eaters, in their terrifying red armour, with Khornate head gear, and then the Night Lords with their fangs and wings? Basicly what I am trying to get to, is when Chaos warped the minds of the traitor legions, the marines took on the traits of chaos, especially if they worshipped a certain god of the warp. I would eventually like to do a project on this, but want possibly some inspiration from other peoples point of views, so I ask this question, if the loyalists had been traitors, how do you think they would look now, in the 40k era? Who would worship what gods, or who would stay undivided? What mutations, traits and colours would the fallen marines wear? Their practices and rituals? Etc etc, the possibilities sound endless to me. This would be good as a discussion by itself, but in the long run I would like to see the opinions of others so I could gather enough ideas/inspiration to convert the models of loyal legions, into traitors. One thing that I have been thinking about is who the Space Wolves would be associated with. I thought of Khorne due to their rage and tendencies of going berserk, but then I thought of Tzeentch, the lord of change. I'm sure by now, we pretty much know about the wulfen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 EDITED Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1689185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.(Space)Marine Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Wow, those are some good ideas there Molotov. I'm making a Horus Heresy map-based campaign/board game for my soon to be started Epic Horus Heresy armies,. and a lot of the gameplay is based on alternative events. Things such as some legions deciding to turn against the emperor instead of staying loyal, and different legions being chosen to do different things...the customisation and possibilities truly are endless. I particulary like the alternate events of Gulliman's ego overshadowing his loyalty...the Ultramarines would make the perfect bad guys ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1689500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 i have thought of this countless times already. the top on my list of interesting changes would definately be Sanguinius! although unlike you i do not imagine him worshiping any specific Chaos god but being a servant of chaos undivided. just imagine sanguinius as an undivided daemon prince :) . I've also imagined russ as being very very werewolf-like in appearance. there are countless combinations and possibilities to think of. i also imagined Khan becoming some sort of centaur-like creature after reading Horus Rising for the second time. and i sort of hate dorn so i see him as a rock :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1689558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grinshanks Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Magnus has the foresight to see that no man may have so much power again and proposes that the remaining loyalist legions split into smaller conclaves (aka chapters). Now what chapters do we have now then eh? Thousand sons gets split up into 3 chapters Thousand sons = the most powerful scorcerors and strong in psycic power, Adepts of Magnus = the marines who value knowledge and the most scholared, Emperors Rubrics = the least psycic marines and the newer recruits (aka the ones who would have ended up as rubrics in normal continuity) errr thats all i got atm, but think of some more chapters :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1689598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 if the heresy was inverted i'd say sanguinius would be the Horus-like figure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1690849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobo Willie Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 For the Heresy to be inverted it would have to have several events prior changed. For one, the Emperor would have to have accepted the Word Bearer's worshiping him as a God. This, of course, would have soured the Ultramarines and Imperial Fists against him. Second, he would not have called the Council of Nikea. Perhaps, he even praised Magnus for his psychic prowess. This would alienate the Space Wolves. Third, he would have rewarded Pertuarbo's long and hard trench fighting with the honor of creating the Imperial Palace's defences. Fourth, after a long discussion with his closest son, Horus, the Emperor decides that due to the respect that all Legions have for Sanguinius, he shall be the new Warmaster. Guilliman and Dorn, disgusted at the prospect of a man, no matter how powerful, allowing himself to be worshiped slowly are brought over to the side of Chaos, because if they should bend knee, it should be to actual Gods. Once Sanguinius is named Warmaster, they see the chance to perhaps have their voices heard by someone with more power than themselves and set about ensuring his assistance. Along the way, they put out feelers to various other Legions, garnering a bit of support from Vulkan, whom is still angry about how the Emperor only saved his life after he had secured the larger Salamander in the competition, Russ, and Khan, both very angry that the Emperor forced technology and cultural changes upon their once proudly tech deficient worlds. Ferrus Mannus also looks to join, as he is slowly driven mad by his decision that flesh is weak, and the whispers set in from nefarious powers. The Lion's paranoia gets the better of him after he is passed over for position of Warmaster and begins to feel that the Emperor has it in for him. Corax decides that the Imperium is beginning to emulate the corrupt society he had defeated before the coming of the Emperor and gladly joins with Dorn and Guilleman. On the other side of the coin, Curze admits the source of his fits and nightmares to be visions of his brothers turning upon their father and that he would perish in the treachery to Fulgrim, whom turns to Magnus for help in containing the fits. It is then determined that he is indeed prescient, but all three just can't believe what is to come. Only after discussing the possibilities with the ferocious Angron, whom states that the Space Wolves and the White Scars have been prosecuting wars in ways that even the World Eaters can't stomach, and learning from Alpharius that there are rumors of unrest coming from the Ultramar systems and that many planets conquered by the Imperial Fists and the Ultramarines are being left with little, if any, allegiance to Terra. All five Legions, in an attempt to get to the bottom of it, contact Warmaster Sanguinius to see if he has seen any exacting proof of treachery or excesses by these Legions. Sanguinius invites them to meet him, and the Legions in question, at the system of Istvaan in order resolve these issues. The Night Lords, Alpha Legion, and World Eaters decide to meet with Sanguinius, while the Thousand Sons and Emperors Children go to discuss these issues with the Emperor... And boom: Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1691698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miniman Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 What I want to know is, if Gulliman turned traitor, wouldn't he have killed the Emperor? I mean if he had besieged Terra, he would of had the largest legion on record, as the Smufs recruit like crazy? Isn't that more theoretical? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1703049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobo Willie Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I thought the Emperor's Children were just as large pre-heresy? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1703287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leethal Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 No the Emperor's Children were small. Due to some horrific accident. The MOST Likely to be the Loyalist Horus, would have been The Lion. The Lion is quite possibly the most tactical genius out of the group, possibly after Horus, maybe exceeding him in a few areas but more of less on par with Horus. He had the second most number of victories after Horus, and by the Heresy was right behind Horus in victories. After the Lion, came Guilliman with his Blue Horde, and zergling rushing everything. Plus he's too pompous and too rigid to be a flexible tactician like the Lion or Horus. He also lacks charisma. Horus could control crowds by his speech. The Lion could drive entire populations into a frenzy. Guilliman..........has a big vocabulary. Guilliman would have just been some...sort of secondary commander, possibly in strife with the Lion for sectors of control, after the initial Heresy. Russ or Sanguinuis, and possibly the Khan would be PRIME canidates for the Blood God. The real question would be, would the hell would fall to Nurgle? If anything it would be Dark Angels for being stubborn like the Death Guard, or possibly the Salamanders for some reason, rotten dragons zombies! Tzeentch, hmm. Possibly Iron Hands and get some Robot Marine. Slanessh is also up for discussion. I would say the Blood Angels, since they are all so "pretty" or possibly, the Space Wolves for their "screwing, killing, and drinking". If that isn't decadence I dont know what is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1703395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Alpha legion could split up in 2 after the Heresy like Alpha Chapter and Omega Chapter. I'am troubled as to where the World Eaters would fit as loyalists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1703412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leethal Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 The World Eaters would actually become what they were meant to be. Proud, martial warriors. In essence, the Blood Angels. Without the crazy and sexy good looks. I can totally see them at the Seige, holding the Line in the place of the White Scars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1703425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiri the Corrupted Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 As a BL player, in this alternate universe I'd have to scream 'Death to Calger, Betrayer of the Emperor!" I kinda like that... makes me feel all warm and fussy inside. Can you imagine it, slaughtering smurfs in the name of the Emperor? Hell, I'd even paint my Black Legionaires, oh no wait, Sons of Horus rotting flesh just for the chance! Edit: spelling Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1703519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Bane Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 As a BL player, in this alternate universe I'd have to scream 'Death to Calger, Betrayer of the Emperor!" I kinda like that... makes me feel all warm and fussy inside. Can you imagine it, slaughtering smurfs in the name of the Emperor? Hell, I'd even paint my Black Legionaires, oh no wait, Sons of Horus rotting flesh just for the chance! Edit: spelling If Horus had not been named Warmaster they'd still be Luna Wolves and thus chalk white. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1703570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Either Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 i think we all would jump at the chance of wageing war on the Ultamarines they r all stuck up :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1703619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-chaplain Astador Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Really is a shame the Worldeaters turned, they are without a doubt the coolest legion IMO. Can you imagine the Idea of the entire World Eaters legions absolute FURY being unleashed upon their traitorous brother legions? *drools* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1703631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leethal Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Can't you just imagine World Eaters set loose on someone in general? It's not THAT hard. Play an Apoc game with Bezerkers. There's so much smashing around it's not funny. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1703918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 i think khan would be a prime candidate for Slaanesh because other than the decadent side of slaanesh we could look at what benefits are gained in battle such as speed, precision, and other things. Khan and the scars fit well with those benefits :P Everyone would love to kill the Ultramarines cuz they're so darn :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1704034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobo Willie Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I would have thought the Imperial Fists, with their pain gloves and whatnot, to be the Slaaneshi marines. And I think it's already been stated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1705147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of Ultramar Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 i think we all would jump at the chance of wageing war on the Ultamarines they r all stuck up ;) Whoa there, nelly. Personally, I really thought the stuck-up Legion was the Emperor's Children. But the idea of massacring hordes of Death Guard, Emperor's Children and, I don't know, Night Lords as they land on Istvaan has some appeal to me too. ;) World Eaters as loyalists does pose problems, as I saw on a forum a long time ago, it's the one loyalist legion name that makes no sense: "Hurray, we're being saved by the Ultramarines!" This makes sense. "Hurray, we're being saved by the...World Eaters?" Not exactly the most reassuring name, no? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1706311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobo Willie Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 It's as if they were "set up for the bomb" from the get-go... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1706454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dooley44 Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 if gulliman was tainted by the voices or the touch of chaos, it would give a good reason why apparently he's throat is healing from when fulgrim stabbed him in the neck, but then think bout it that way, chaos brother killing chaos brother, or maybe there was more to the picture then fulgrim knew. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1706663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 Really is a shame the Worldeaters turned, they are without a doubt the coolest legion IMO. Well you could always play as Flesh Tearers? They're not really that far off how the world eaters were! Re: the original topic. We are often told that the heresy pitted brother against brother. Of how the heresy truly divided the imperium. The excellent examples above show how things could have been different had fate played her hand in just a slightly different manner. But, imagine the possibility of pitting brother against brother if they were twins? Perhaps, in the follow up to Legion, the two primarchs of the Alpha Legion will go different ways, with them both fighting over the fate of the legion. This, above anything else, would illustrate the truly divisive nature of the heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1707377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kael Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 We are often told that the heresy pitted brother against brother. Of how the heresy truly divided the imperium. The excellent examples above show how things could have been different had fate played her hand in just a slightly different manner. But, imagine the possibility of pitting brother against brother if they were twins? Perhaps, in the follow up to Legion, the two primarchs of the Alpha Legion will go different ways, with them both fighting over the fate of the legion. This, above anything else, would illustrate the truly divisive nature of the heresy. WOAH! The Alpha Legion had 2 primarchs!?!?!?!? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1707468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 We are often told that the heresy pitted brother against brother. Of how the heresy truly divided the imperium. The excellent examples above show how things could have been different had fate played her hand in just a slightly different manner. But, imagine the possibility of pitting brother against brother if they were twins? Perhaps, in the follow up to Legion, the two primarchs of the Alpha Legion will go different ways, with them both fighting over the fate of the legion. This, above anything else, would illustrate the truly divisive nature of the heresy. WOAH! The Alpha Legion had 2 primarchs!?!?!?!? read the book Legion, or lacking that, the wiki article on it. it reveals alot about the alpha legion, and its...unique command structure. and watch out reading threads here, alot of spoilers are dropped. wolf lord kieran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/145708-if-the-loyalists-became-traitors-project/#findComment-1707504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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